Transom replacement gone wrong
 

The glass shop that was working on my boat went belly up in mid stream. At this point I have no one I can trust in the Dallas area so I'm going to try this myself using day labor.

The transom wood is all but removed and is ready for the grinder. I think I can handle the grinding part okay.

Here's where it gets ugly. The guy decided to cut the center stringer the entire length at the bottom near the hull (only one side). He cut it all the way through at the bulkhead. So the main stringer is 1 cut from being completely removed. Should I go ahead and take it out? or cut a 45 degree angle to allow for the new transom wood? I'm considering using seacast to fill the stringers.

Here's my plan for this week;

1) grind the transom clean
2) remove center stringer (or cut at 45?)
3) create templete and cut new $$ plywood
4) install one 3/4" sheet and glass
5) install 2nd sheet and glass (should be 2 1/4")

how's plan?? too easy on paper?

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

I'd cut the stringer at 45 if its solid.

Instead of 2 sheets of 3/4 with glass between (like I did mine)
you could go 3 sheets of 1/2 with glass in between. If your engine hatch isn't big enough you may have to section your boards. If you do, make sure you stagger the cuts.
DS

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

bryanspeedracer recored the transom in his '84 fountain 10 meter and inspired me to tackle mine.
Here's his post with some pics:
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...hlight=transom

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

I had a transom replaced some years ago and they used a special epoxy to attached the first sheet of marine plywood to the transom. Also, be sure to use marine grade plywood as exterior grade would not be acceptable.

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

If you feel that you are in over your head give Robin a call at Superior fiberglass here in OK very good work and has been here a while.

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

I left the stringers intac like you have them now, I cut the new bords on half and stargerd the cuts, you use epoxy between the transom and first board and then epoxy the second board to the frist, you can use a tile trawl to spred the epoxy ( use cabasil to thicken). I can give more info and photos if needed. Kyle Miller

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

We replaced the Transom in the rescue boat last year. We used Grade A plywood (no voids, but not "Marine Grade" from Venezuela or anything (we got it at Home Depot)). 3/4 in, 2 plies. We used West System epoxy with filler (painted in the transom, and on the wood with a paintbrush), and glued in the first piece, then the second piece, and screwed into both from existing holes in transom with backer blocks. After that started to set up, we covered the whole thing with 2 layers of mat (32 If I remember correctly), filling any voids (due to non perfect cuts) with a slurry mix of shredded mat (just cut it up) and West System. We did not cut into the stringers, so I can't help with that.
This thing is as solid as a rock. I hang a 23'' setback Stainless Marine Outboard bracket with a 1983 Mercury 200hp BlackMax off of that, and it doesn't move even when travelling down the highway over the potholes.

Good Luck :drink:

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Wow, great replies!! I'm glad to see so many 'do-it-yourselfers' that are happy with the results.

Well, my first day on the job when from bad to worse... June 1, was the first day I was to have access to my boat. Had it all worked out with the owner that I could work on it for 30 days inside the shop. Not only did he tell me he was NOT going to let me in the building, but that I was no longer allowed on his property! WTF?? It was also where I kept my boat stored. I think they all sniff glue up there!

I got the cops up there, showed them all the paperwork, and they all agreed there is nothing legal keeping me from my boat. We go inside the shop and there is 2 cruisers blocking my exit (on stilts). Now I am again at the mercy of the owner... the cops say that I can not touch those other boats without a court order. The owner is going to have to hire people to move the cruisers and he is in no hurry. He promised the cops he would provide me a plan next Monday. A plan!? I bet if there was a way I could charge him for keeping my boat he'd hurry his ass up a little. Is it time to get a lawyer?

Well needless to say my transom plan for the week is shot, now it's;

0.1) get boat back
0.2) find a place to work on it.

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Yup get a lawer!!! Also if there is anything at all valuable on your boat GO GET IT!!!

The job sucks to do but it is doeable with some patience. Dry fit everything two or three times to make sure that you have it down. When you mix up all the resin you only have a certain amount of work time. If you use Epoxy it is much stronger and will give you quite a bit of work time if you use the slow hardener.

Jon

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

I'd let him know the cruisers would be moved by the end of the week and you'll send him the bill, or he better let you work on your boat where it sits. (which sounds like what you wanted anyway)
-Can you "make" a new door?
-Report your property (boat) stolen and that you know where it's being hidden from you?

Good Luck

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

You can make a template from cheap Luan plywood cut into 2 inch wide strips. The finished product will be a skeleton template.

The idea is to build up the template piece by piece, using hot-melt glue to bond the pieces together. Start at one corner and work your way around. You can cut the plywood to length with good shears.

Before removing the template add corner reinforcements and mark the front. You may have to cut it in half to get it out.

You may have to put the new plywood in using multiple sections. Run the joints in one direction (left/right) for one layer, then up/down for the second layer. You can use drywall screws, bolts through existing holes, etc to get a tight squeeze on the laminations.

I have used pressure treated BC exterior grade plywood that is good and dry, kiln dried if available. I dried some in a couple of days by laying it out on sawhorses in the sun.

Use West Systems epoxy with the extra-slow hardener- on an 80 degree morning you have about 2 hours working time. Check http://www.westsystem.com/. The epoxy will stick like superglue on the dry plywood. The plywood/epoxy is very strong and will probably outlast the rest of the boat.

Good luck getting your boat back. I would not trust the A-hole with my motors or anything else.

1- I would send him a registered letter by USPS demanding release of YOUR property.

2- I would get in touch with your local DA or someone. They can make 1 phone call that will often 'motivate' someone into realizing they don't need more trouble, like criminal charges, on top of a bankruptcy.

Ronnie

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

FINALLY!!! Now if I can just keep my PITA neighbor off my ass I can get busy!

I had the cops on my side for once :) They told me what the owner was doing was on the borderline of civil/criminal. That I needed to send him a registered letter stating he had 10 days to return my boat or I was going to report it stolen. Once he found out he could be arrested he caved and hired the people to free my boat.

Now if **** doesn't beat all, as soon as I'm ready to start taking close up pic's of the damage, my truck was broke into last night and they got my camera... right in front of my house under a street light. I'm buying a home surveylance system! damnitalltohell!

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Should I go ahead and remove the entire center stringer??

Here are some pic's taken with phone... One shows he cut the center stringer at the bottom all the way around. Funny thing is it is still very sturdy (even though the bulky section where the motor mounts go is hollow).

The other shows he cut it at the firewall(?). It's very hollow there, not even any dust. The firewall bulkhead is also hollow.

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Thanks Zanie for the props!

I guess I don't entirely understand the last part. I will say that if any stringers appear solid, leave them alone.
Do this in stages. Resist the urge to remove all of the bad wood at once inly because if you aren't careful, the measurements will be off. For example, replace the transom core, then move to stringer replacement.
I tend to agree with conservative approaches with materials. Replacing wood with wood is fine and will hold up if taken care of.
Personally, I used west systems epoxy (slow hardner) with 404 powder glue for filler. The properties are much stronger than vinylester/polyester resins. I also used marine grade plywood. Not so much for the rot protection (coat the wood several times "wet it" before construction will seal it) but because of the guarantee of no voids and it has more veneers in its construction (compared to builder grade ie:stiffer).
Having said all that, if your budget will only allow for regular fiberglass resin and regular plywood I believe that you'd still be ok. Attention to detail is by far the most critical (measuring and void free construction is key).
Feel free to call me if you have any questions. 585-259-1710 Bryan

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Thanks for the response Bryan, I will heed your advice and concentrate only on the transom for now.

The old transom wood is pretty much removed. I believe it's time to grind. I'll be using a 7" grinder with 50 grit pads.

Should I cut the stringers at the red line?

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Here is how I make epoxy treated plywood-
I start with a good grade of treated plywood, BC, that has been kiln dried after treatment. I use a piece of pegboard for a drill guide, and a drill stop so the holes do not go completely through the plywood.

After drilling a zillion holes, I sand the sheet smooth and then lay it flat. I pour on the epoxy and let it soak down into the holes- It takes multiple pours and uses a lot more resin than just a surface treatment. This also guarantees no major voids- they fill with epoxy. After making sure it is saturated I then laminate fiberglass cloth to the surface.

Marine plywood is made from woods that are naturally rot resistant but not rot proof. If it were rot-proof we would not be discussing replacement. The issue of voids becomes moot if water ever finds it's way in. I have seen it turn to pulp about the consistency of wood putty. The epoxy treated plywood I use is impervious to water and extremely strong- pretty much indestructable.

Remember to take your time and treat all outdrive holes, etc. with epoxy.

Oh yeah, glad to hear you got the boat back. I guess the owner did not want to play house with 'Bubba'.

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

EPOXY- EPOXY- EPOXY! DON'T EVEN COSIDER POLYESTER RESIN, Polyester does not have near the bonding strength to plywood that epoxy has.Scrimp on beer brand befor you skimp on resin. WEST SYSTEM is the only brand i will ever use , i have had a few bad experiences with other brands of epoxy .Just my .02

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Are you going to replace the stringer? It sounded like you were. If so then you can cut it there. If the stringer is not going to be replaced then I would not cut it as you show. I would keep it as close to the transom as you can.

Jon

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Jackhammer,

You've got the right idea. There will as many approaches to this job as there is visitors to this site. If you have questions you can also call the makers of West Systems (Gougeon Brothers 989-684-1374) they sent me a ton of info for nothin'.
If your stringers are solid, cut just enough to get the new plywood in place. If they are not, go back to where they are solid.
Before you start construction, make dry runs and have your clamping system organized. You do have to be mindful of epoxies set time. Also, lay down plastic where ever you don't want epoxy to be. Once it hardens, its there for good. Acetone is the clean up agent.

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Wow Bulldog, that is serious business, there must be some pro's and con's to that process. Is weight a factor?

Audiofn, the stringers are rotten near the firewall bulkhead and the bulkhead is completely rotten. Wellcraft did not glass the underside of the center stringer (where the cut is in above pic), so it's hollow now. I'm thinking it's best to replace it all, or cut the tops off the stringers, hollow them out and fill with seacast. any experience with seacast?

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

There is a lip left over from cutting out the transom. Does this lip need to be ground down completely?

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

I did on mine. the lip is where they glassed over the transom wood when the hull is in the mold. I ground the lip down and cut the wood so it went all the way to the deck, past the hull/deck joint. I probably didn't need to do that but it will make for a stronger construction. As a side benefit, the wood required less trimming to fit where i put onstead of trimming it to fit inside of that lip.
Any gaps that you have (The new wood should have a small gap between it and the hullsides), fill in with the epoxy thickened with 404 powder glue.

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Hi Art! I haven't accomplished much... a lot of looking and thinking. I've done just enough to get a little sliver of glass embedded in the joint of my pinky... driving me nuts!

I did go ahead and pull out the center stringer... after removing the leftover wood between it and the transom it pretty much fell over.

The outside stringers I will be able to keep as they are (vs. cut at 45*). The new wood will fit in one piece and clear the outside stringers.

I'm now trying to remove the leftover glass on top of where the old transom was (upper lip). It has completely separated from the deck. I'm seriously considering doing what Bryonspeedracer did by making the new wood go up higher so it fuses the deck and hull.

I should be able to finishing grinding this weekend, make the template, cut the wood, and maybe prep the wood as bulldog described... the jury is still out on that one though.

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Jackhammer,

Which company did U use that went belly up? If you wanted to still have someone do it U might call 214-679-1089 the guy's name is Joe. He has a shop over in Denton area. Unless he's the one that went belly up!! If U wanted to take it down to Austin area Bob Loyd who owns Full thorottle marine has a guy that does really good work you might give him a call to get the #. Bobs # is 830-693-5591.

Russ

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Timothy Richter Fiberglass in Lewisville Texas. If you're near here and hear or see of him at a boat shop, run!

I talked to Joe and a few other people... I got a different story from each person. Add that up with an already deep seeded distrust for boat repair 'professionals', and that equals DIY! This is my 3rd complete re-rig project so I have the confidence needed to tackle a transom/stringer job. I just HATE doing this type of work in July... It's hot as hell and I should be on the water!

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Do I really need to grind 100% of the old transom down to glass? There a some big sections that have good clean wood and at the most 1/32" thick (very thin). I can almost see through it!

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Okay thanks Art! I went ahead with grinding and removing all traces of the original transom. Now it appears I have a few low spots (valleys). They aren't bad so I'm going to live with it. I'll just make sure there is enough epoxy to fill any low spots.

What I need to do this week is go shopping... can you guys help with with my shopping list? I have a line on the brand epoxy I plan to use, I just need to know how much I should buy? (gallons). How much, and what type fiberglass? There are so many different types of mat and woven, sheesh! What other kinds of need to have items will I want?

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Bryanspeedracer and Zanie,

I studied your threads again and you guys took a slightly different approach.

I've pretty much decided to only use thickened epoxy between the hull and first piece of wood like bryan did.

between the 1st and second sheet I'm leaning towards putting layers of glass like zanie did. Mainly to add to the thickness so I can be slightly over 2" when finished. It looks like welcraft used 1 sheet of cloth between the 2 sheets of plywood. I was thinking of going thicker, but how much is too much? or is it even necessary?

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Hi Art!

I'm in Dallas... I wish I were close enough for some consulting!

Besides grinding, this is the only progress I've made. The lower portion of this transom never went all the way down to the drain hole. I didn't want to mess with trying to shape the new wood so I built a step for the new wood to sit flat on. It's not pretty but it'll work (better than it did).

I have a few valleys to flatten out, especially on the edges. The original transom did not go all the way to the edge so it's real uneven there... I'm going to flatten it out with thickened epoxy same as what I did in this pic.

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Here's an edge I was talking about... the darker area is actually a good 1/4 inch from the lighter stuff... i put a straight edge on it but I don't think it shows up so well.

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

Just Wondering What Year And Model Your Wellcraft Is? The Way The Stringers Look From Your Pics Seems To Be About A 38 Scarab? Im Asking Because I Have A 1998 Scarab And Am wondering If this Is Something I should Look For In the future?

Re: Transom replacement gone wrong
 

JJones, I have an 86 34' Scarab III. From what I hear, the 80's models made by Wellcraft are notorious for rot. What I found with mine is that the transom wasn’t yet rotten… it was soft (very wet) in places. Directly below the drives and all around the water inlets was soft wet wood. Everywhere else including the tabs, exhaust, and swim platform mounts were dry. I didn’t know what rot was until I removed the firewall bulkhead… there was nothing but brown paper (should’ve been wood). Same with the stringers forward of the bulkhead… gone.

I think the biggest problem I see, is that the builder put all the wood in without separating sections, i.e. If rot starts anywhere in the boat, it will spread throughout the entire boat unabated… like cancer. They may have changed things, because I heard the 90’s models were much better in resisting rot.

Personally, if I knew I had a wet transom that some day would need replacing, I would check the stringers real close. I would take a couple core samples with a nice sized drill bit (all the way through, it only hurts the first time). I would refill the holes with thickened epoxy. If the stringers look good, I would cut the stringer at the transom and fill it to make sure the transom wood does not come in contact with the stringer wood. I would then schedule a transom replacement for sometime in the future. I’d keep an eye on it year after year and schedule a replacement when it was good and ready.

Wow! coming on 2 years! I've been taking my time enjoying the fiberglass itch. Lemme see if I can catch you guys up.

if there is anything worse than the project from hell... it's in my yard.

I had to go about halv way through the cabin to find good wood

When I replaced the center stringer in the cabin I decided to leave the existing glass. If you look close you can see I just stuffed new wood where the old stringer was. At the very front by the bulkhead I cut it at a 45 to slide the bulkhead piece in. goobered it up real good.

Ripped the floor off and look what I found... it's an old US Customs boat.

I figured since it worked so well in the cabin I would try the same thing on the main stringers. I used a chainsaw to cut the tops of the stringers off and just kept going down to the hull. I could see the hull and made sure I had all the crap out. My neighbors thought I was nuts! When I put the new wood back in I first put a healty layer of thickened epoxy (1/2") all along the bottom. I cut the wood at an angle to fit the hull pretty good. I then poored in more thickened epoxy to bond the new wood to the old glass.

About this time I received my second major injury. Somehow while I was chain sawing the stringers something very small came and hit me in the nose. I must've dug something up from the depths of hell because I though I was going to lose my nose. I'm not kidding, I though it was a sliver of glass... it was so tiny I could barely feel it. About this time I was so itchy anyway I didn't pay much attention. In about 2 day I had what looked like the biggest pimple on the end of my nose and it hurt like hell. Went to the doc and got some antibiotics... they didn't help. went back, more tests, more shots, more antibiotics... it kept getting worse. It was to the point within 7 days I had to wear a bandage across my nose to keep from grossing people out... and I was actually getting scared. They were going to put me in the hospital. My throat was getting so swollen and even my armpits.. I never knew I had lymph nodes in my armpits! Anyway, the lab results came back with some exotic bacteria, once they knew what it was they had the right meds to clear it up fast. I still have a scar on my nose from this damn boat! I will not be defeated!!

Oh, the first major injury was pulling my back putting in the transom.

I found this interesting... the old floor was ~1/4" to 1/2" away from the hull. see the ridge on the vertical piece... the fat section below the ridge wasn't touching the hull. Fortunately I ran into someone that told me about hardpoints. At first I though it was more lame manufacturing.