http://www.pacificpowerboats.net/service-list.htm They are actually a pretty good service center as to what your looking at they are capable its just he cost. Fiberglassing takes 60 plus degrees and low moisture we both know you have a few months to plan get on the phone the shops are all getting slammed now.

Hey someone on OSO that is local!! Funny thing is that place is about 3 miles from my house and I was just in there buying parts for my exhaust project a week ago lol. Didn't think they did that kind of repairs though. Have you used them before for this type of thing and are they reasonable?

Edit: just checked their site and sure enough they list dry rot and fiberglass repairs... could be promising!

glad you have a shot at somebody local. get there tomorrow and see if they have a time frame that would work with you. or see what is needed to get a time frame built. if they have the indoor space, they can probably be doing the work in dead of winter. another thought, get the boat surveyed. you tap with a screwdriver and no experience. the surveyor with a license and a decade of experience or more and a moisture meter will show you what you need and where. may even be able to point you to somebody who can do the work. they are also pretty dialed in to the boating community where they live-work...and yeah, (ay-yuh) sea-cast is bondo.

I do my own stuff but I had a buddy who used them they were good and were priced competivley

Well the shop that I have do it hopefully will be able to give me an accurate estimate... I hope! A survey would be a good idea but a little late for that you can bet I will have one done if there is a next time after this mess! I do like your idea about the surveyors having a good idea on where to take it for repairs though I never thought of that! How much are surveys typically?

You need any extra work by chance?! Lol.

Nice to know they do good work, I'll call them tomorrow and see what the deal is I'm sure I'll have to drag it down there for a good estimate.

the surveyor will tell you what needs to be done, and what doesn't need to be done. if you take it to somebody and say fix it, you will never know for sure if extra unnecessary work was done, or if they didn't do something they should have cuz it was too much trouble. i paid 10 bucks a foot for a couple of surveys a decade ago. surveyor could also tell you if this boating season is lost or if you could get away with one more summer...

Hey theres a few of us left coasters, we live out side of Wenatchee on the Columbia. Good luck and now you have me worried, lol.

Your putting way too much faith in the capability of a surveyor. Most I've dealt with can't tell a formula from a fountain. Had one look at a top gun for a customer and suggest the customer call cigarette because maybe the center stringer is supposed to be hollow....

I agree with JD. I think most of them are used to doing blow boats.

So True and Also

Thats why people who intend on keeping an old boat try to find the largest coolest boat they can find to re do because they know that the will be with it for a long time and will not most likely ever recover their costs

i am putting too much faith in surveyor? ins companys wont insure most boats without survey. everybody on here sez if it is over 3000 bucks, get it surveyed before purchase. they find hull problems for a living. now we have a guy who stumbled across hull problems and admits he knows essentially nothing about boat hulls. how can a surveyor not be a help? maybe the boat should be parted out. it could be that bad. maybe it only needs the bulkhead he kicked thru repaired. maybe the stringers will be ok for the season. maybe they are so rotten they are about to pull off the hull as soon as he hits the gas. he doesn't even need a full survey. a lot of what they do is the documentation for the insurance and finance companies. all OP needs is the guy to point out what is bad and how bad. and what is ok.

And a fiberglass shop or marina would be the place to do it.
2 examples
First a 242 ss formula, surveyor missed rotted transom and stringer. I found both in 5 minutes, but he did spend 20 minutes tapping on the bottom "checking for a rotted core" there is no core in that bottom.
Second, looked a top gun all over, said "I don't know why the meter is reading high, it looks fine? I believe that stringer is supposed to be hollow" are you kidding me? So if you have no intelligent friends or shop you know I guess hire a surveyor.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...ryanspeedracer

I replaced a transom and stringers in a '84 10 meter. Took two weeks of driveway labor. I was out just under a grand all up, all in.

Good luck. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Bryan

I agree that it's time for the OP to learn how to do this. Once the engines are out and compartment derigged that's half the battle. Plenty of people here can guide through the process. Just don't expect someone who does this for a living to provide the guidance.

Just so you know, the white paint / brush marks you've noted in several areas are quite common on Fountains - right from the factory. After they finished rigging each boat, they would do a fairly quick brush paint job of the bilge area with white bilge paint to make things look nice. In fact if you look up the sides of the boat on the inside of the engine compartment, you'll very clearly see where they stopped swabbing the paint on. So seeing this kind of thing on a Fountain does not always mean the boat has been previously repaired. Hope that helps.

Surveyors seem a lot like home inspectors, they notice peeled paint on a fascia board but miss the sinking foundation. I had the same thing on both my formulas. First boat I was ignorant, the second boat it was intentionally well hidden. Eithe way, $1000 would cover the material if you aren't scared to try something new. If you worked weekends , you could be in the water by Memorial Day . Good luck!

Interesting read and theory here: http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthre...a-valid-theory

IF you are somewhat handy this can be a very simple process, simply take a drill to all of the suspected area's and take a core sample. If the bit churn's out white dry wood thing's are ok...now if it pulls wet brown wood well time for recon. To fill the hole's.... actually use a 1/2" bit to do a core then get some 1/2" dowel's to plug the core's. Fiberglass them back in using a mixture of microspheres and resin mix the combo into a peanut butter like paste and fill...drill check if ok...... first use some sort of a large syringe fill the hole tap in the dowel and level off the peanut butter...good as new again.

I agree a survey would serve some purpose in my situation but essentially no more information would be obtained other than what a reputable shop could tell me in regards to my rot and the repairs needed. Whatever I agree to with any shop or person you can bet I will be wanting to SEE exactly whet they find as far as rot goes and have it all explained to me while I'm in the bilge going over it with them! As you can tell I'm not afraid to ask stupid questions as long as I know WHAT to ask!

In reading everyone's postings about surveyors it looks like some do a good job and some miss a lot of super important things... hit or miss I guess which I would not have expected being that IS their job and all! For me at this stage in the game it's too late I own what I own and I screwed myself in not knowing what I was buying. I take full responsibility and have learned a good lesson for sure about "boats" lol.

Me and the wife sat down last night and agreed we aren't in a position to get rid of it, take a huge loss and then try our luck in finding something else we like as much and hope it pans out. I brought up to her getting rid of it but she wasn't having that so I guess we are fixing it. (The wife is always right if you are married lol)

You know I 100% agree with you on this I would love to learn how to do this. Mostly I just have a REAL hard time paying someone to do something I can do myself. It doesn't seem overly hard (at least from internet pics) even though I have never done it. I'm sure everyone here would be over the top helpful in walking me through it if I went that route.

There is just one thing..... The wife! I would be DEAD if our family missed this season and possibly the next with the amount of spare time I have to fix it. My wife would kill me especially after only using twice since we got it. I'm going to talk to her tonight and see if I can't convince her but I don't think it's going to fly AT ALL. I think fixing it myself would be a very rewarding experience for me in learning something new and a big middle finger to this boat to say TAKE THAT you floating S.O.B.!

So assuming I want to start drilling and checking myself, specifically where on the transom will I want to do this to gauge if it is bad? I'm sure there are some "key" areas particular to this boat where it typically rots and that I would want to check? I will pull the rest of the exhaust tails and check those openings (the one I checked was ok) if you guys think that would be helpful also?

I called Pacific Power boats on the advise of Pliant and the service manager was not on duty today. I will be calling and speaking with him on Monday and possibly taking it in for an estimate. Does anyone have any advise on what I need to ask him in regards to materials or specific techniques etc. that I want used? I almost know enough to be dangerous...at least to myself lol!

Its quite simple ask them for a survey and the cost of any repair's, Same as getting a bid on your wrecked car no difference dont be a sucker. Dont tell hey ive got 5k and want to spend it on any imperfection's......:eating:

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/HullFailPart1.htm

If the estimate is more than you are willing to spend you may decide fixing it yourself is what you want to do. If you want to try it yourself, glassdave has some awesome cut away drawings that spec out exactly what to do. He is super helpful. I would be curious to hear what it costs to have done vs DIY.

Remove your drain plug and housing and see how wood looks there, being it's the lowest point in the transom. The exhaust tip holes on the 32's would be my guess as most likely to be the 1st to leak water into transom, pull a tip and check the wood there too.

5 yrs ago we bought a cruiser from our dock in July. End Oct comes and we haul it home for an (we thought) easy winter clean and detail job. Pulled the transom assemblies off to repaint them. Next day noticed a water trickle coming out of 1 of the TA mounting holes. A couple of checks showed areas of the transom soaked, other areas dry as ever. 1 area even had what appeared to be microscopic bugs swimming in the water soaked areas. Having never done any FG work before, no idea what we where in for. Anything else, I can or have done it. Having it done was not an option. Many topics with descriptions, pics and advice on OSO allowed me to spend hrs reading up on all that I could find. With a circular saw and chisels in hand, started the demo. What I found was a total hit or miss areas. With transom being built up with layers of plywood and glass in between, I found areas that 1 layer would be soaked, the layer next to it was like new. Either way, it all came out. Luckily my stringers where good as new, so they were left alone. The wife and I did the job ourselves. Ordered all the VE resin and supplies from US Composites...the glass I had unlimited access to in rolls at no cost. I'm guessing $750ish my expense for this job. We had right at a month from demo start to last piece of tabbing installed working/researching info all along. Also a couple of phone conversations from a couple guys on here that did same thing for moral support and advise. :)
When started with no experience, we thought no way this was going to work and hold up doing it ourselves! But once it was done, the relief and confidence of doing it was rewarding enough. I can guarantee you, if you do it yourself doing it correctly, the end result will be better than when it left the factory. You will spend more time doing it, and sealing everything. My boat can sink to the bottom go the lake and sit there for yrs, the boat itself will be gone, but that transom will be bone dry inside.

On to your engine reinstall (if you do end up with new transom,) that will require some mechanical knowledge since both motors use the same mounting bolts for the inside mounting al brackets. You gotta get 1 motor aligned perfectly and held in position, while aligning the 2nd motor, then thru bolting both brackets at same time. You can't just premeasure, drill holes and go boating.

What ever you decide, good luck. A lot of us have tackled it and reaped the rewards.

If you could sweat the summer going easy on the throttles, you would be in a much better place time-frame-wise to do this. Cuz you are gonna look at those water pumps and say might as well do impellers while they are out. Check out those transom assys. Maybe new boots, cables and steering pins might be a good idea. There is a whole buncha stuff in there you can justify redoing since it is out anyway.

I ran mine for a season with a soft transom and it was fine. I wasn't super easy on it either. I would wait until the end of the season like these guys are saying.

I' ll double down on this get the survey and plan a course of attack for next winter

Dd where do you do most of your boating at? You can go for it now or maybe take it easy this year and have a plan in place for the next off season, being as you had a good time and enjoyed the boat last summer. What you're finding didn't just occur this winter.

I bet a large portion of boats running out there have rot and don't even know it. One more summer probably won't kill it.

I think that is awesome you and the wife did it together I wish I could get that kind of help! The more stories I hear about people doing it with no experience really makes me want to tackle it mself. I never would have thought that the transoms could be great in one place and soaked in another. I almost want to pull the drives, the tabs and the steering rams off and check it completely... what you said sure makes me nervous tha something will be overlooked. I totally agree I could do it if I had the time and guidance. $750-1000 sounds a hell of a lot better than 5k or whatever it is. You all really have me thinking I must say...

Aligning the engines I'm still confused with... Are you saying you need to hang both engines from the rafters or whatever, align them somehow to something (drives?) and then drill the bracket holes in your new stringer for your mounts?

So I went out after work today and pulled all the exhaust tips they all look fine I didn't pull the last one because it was sealed really good and had no give like the others. I also pulled the plastic caps off the drive indicator cables and checked the sealant around them too and they were sealed very well also.

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3xsdgdsu.jpg

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...psvwqwfb7p.jpg

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...psl6gvftv5.jpg


http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...pswilvjlwf.jpg

I then took the drain plug out as suggested by US1 and dug around in there a bit. It was really hard to get unsealed and I had to dig the sealant from out around the hole to get to the wood. It is looks to be very soild.

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...pskxmz7a1v.jpg

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...pskc2paxyf.jpg

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...psewigvfuo.jpg

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...psenxhfgau.jpg

It looks ok but I then realized that the drain plug is at the very bottom yes but since the boat has a "notched transom" as they call it, the drain plug is set back from the main transom where the drives mount. So if the transom was rotten I think it may be hard to detect any rot from the plug due to this. I then noticed through the drain hole that I can see the main stringer ( the rotten one) and this funny little hole drilled in the end of the stringer! I thought for sure I found the culprit of my rotten stringer...until I poked someting in the end of the hole and it was solid... DAMN!
You can see the hole in this picture:

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4pwvkzja.jpg

I then climbed back into the boat and started tapping on the transom a lot harder than before and I cannot detect anywhere where I can say it sounds rotten or "different". Granted the transom is a lot thicker and if it was only slightly rotten I would never hear a difference. Yes I also realize my method is more akin to a crystal ball so I'm not saying this is the "end all" test. I didn't want to start taking core samlpes until I get an estimate or have someone look at it least that has some experience.

I also tapped a lot harder everywhere on the main stringer and it sure sounds solid near the rear of the boat where it touches the transom and a few inches forward of that point. Only the very bottom of it near the bilge pumps and forward sounds hollow as well as the top of it in front of the engine mounts and to the bulkhead. If I was to bet I would say my transom is ok and was not the source of my problems.

I then started wondering about the drains at the bottom of the bulkhead since there was some dried brownish colored drips of nasty looking water coming out of the port side drain Which I had noted when I first started the exhaust project but thought nothing of it at the time and wiped it up. As stated earlier the newer boats do not have these drains but mine does for whatever reason. I started looking real close at the one "leaky" drain and it doesn't look to be sealed very well waaay underneath and behind it. Hard to tell in the pictures and I really wouldn't know until I tore it out if there was a chance water could seep in anywhere from there.

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...psjttx5dki.jpg

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...pshzkf22ce.jpg

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...psgpdof61h.jpg

I then decided to follow them up into the very front of the boat and see what was going on and why there would be water coming out of the one into the bilge. I noticed in the compartments under the bed there was a tiny bit of moisture just a little tiny dried "pool". Very odd since I cleaned and dried that area out completely when I first cleaned the boat when we got it. (it was nasty) so there should be no reason for it to be there. (yes the boat is fully covered at all times so it could not have leaked in from the topside) I then remembered there was this funky acess hole/ plug that I never opened up and checked out in the compartment under the step that is leading into the cabin.

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...psfdmng8d4.jpg

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...psci4vjfty.jpg

I opened it up and guess what? It was VERY wet inside there!!

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3lfaewgs.jpg
http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...pswy6tdgyz.jpg

What in the hell is this acess plug/ hole there for and why the hell is it wet in there?! The hole is not deep at all maybe an inch or two if that...

I know what you are thinking but this hull is a straight bottom so no step...

I store the boat with the front end WAY up so anything will drain back and into the bilge...

Is this moisture what has caused my rotton bulkhead and stringer? Where does this mystery glory hole go? Maybe wherever the moisture in that hole goes has somehow found its way into the rotten area and thus caused my problem?








Funny you mention boots I noticed today my starboard shif cable is not attached at the transom side. It looks like the hose clamp has come loose from where it should be clamped at. Can this cable only leak into the bilge or can it rot your transom also?

The two times we have taken it out since buying it we have put in at Ditlers and ran around on the Columbia in that area. I think you are right it didn't happen overnight so maybe we just play put put around this year and get it fixed next year. My fear with that plan is that by letting it sit over the winer or whatever time frame I have to is that it rots worse!

I bet you are right I wish I didn't know either....ignorance is bliss LOL!

That looks nasty. Is that glass or the top of the tank in the the last pics?

shift boots go thru the transom cut-out. water coming in there won't damage the transom. it'll just sink your boat, which in the long run would damage the transom...

That's an access plug that's located in the step going into the cabin, not gas tank. What you are seeing is the bottom of the hull. It's nothing more than for a looky see as its only an inch deep. My '94 was just like that and it being wet wasn't uncommon. Water from the bilge would run thru the drains up to the front and get trapped as the drains where not at very very lowest point. I eliminated that problem by simply putting rubber stoppers in the bilge drains to keep water from running forward. Bone dry after that $1 fix.
DD, you gotta really raise the front way in the air to get the bottom front high. Go buy the keel as focal point, not the rub rail or deck.
Your transom does look good from pics, and only by those pics. Sorry about drain plug suggestion. Brain fart. Duh!

Engine alignment, in a nut shell yes, but with a little more thought. Concentrate on bulkhead for now.

I'm curious if to the dulling tap sound you are hearing on the stringers is were the glass is ran down onto the hull bottom and not fully in contact with stringer, like the glass has pulled away from stringer during layup? Just a thought

Why you say sorry bout drain plug suggestion? So far everything he has looked at has reassured him it isn't as bad as feared. To OP: You see a buncha wood looks ok. NOW go get a small thing of resin-auto parts store version will do-and mix some up and paint every bare wood surface you see before putting the stuff back...

Once you hoist the front up really high, maybe swap the hose on a shop vac and plug the hose into that hole and blow nice warm dry air in there for a while.

Very good advice there most of you guys dont know just how humid and wet portland is....its wet and humid all winter aka the swamp. It would probably take a week of being indoors and multiple fan's blowing to dry out a boat of that size. Dave never miss a day of sunshine alway's open her up fans blowing and let it breathe a bit and be sure to close her back up before the sun sets or you will get gallon's of condensation settling all over again...just a thought...:D

Because I was thinking transom, forgetting that the drain plugs are not in the transom on the Fountains. I had my Bajas transom in mind when replying. Nothing more, but I agree, the more good he finds the better.

Also used to put a small fan blowing into that step to dry it out for a couple days.I could feel the air blowing out the bilge drains when doing so.

Thank god! I was hoping someone would give me that answer... although it would have offered some closure to my rotten stringer and bulkhead forensic analysis...

No worries about the drain plug, like said before it's nice to know for sure! Might just order a shiny stainless one to replace the tarnished brass one It did polish up nice though...

Since the bulkhead needs redone anyways, would anyone recommend just eliminating this drain altogether? If not I will plug it for sure.



I went through all my posts and I forgot to mention that besides the "hollow" noise when tapping I can actually push on the side of the stringer in the most hollow sounding spots and it flexes. That being said, is what you said still possible? I would think if it was completely hollow and rotten my hatch ram at minimum would have ripped itself out of it's mounting holes or me standing on top of the stringer when working back there would have made it collapse?

I don't have any wood showing anywhere at this point I haven't drilled into anything... except for my foot going through the bulkhead lol! What do I seal the drain plug back up with? 4200? 5200? Something else? It was white and somewhat pliable but a pain to get off. Also what do I reseal the exhaust tips to the transom with? It was black sealant of some sort there. And do you guys seal the holes the screws for these components go in with something also? If so what do I use?


So I went out there after Easter brunch and raised the nose as high as the jack would take it. I already had two cinder blocks under there but it had about five cranks left in the jack. After that I cobbled together this bad boy:


http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8lxlt5sp.jpg


http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...psevfibs41.jpg


The milk jug pour spout fits just perfect in the wet glory hole so I'll just let that baby blow down there for a week or two?
I want to dry this hot mess out I really don't like the idea of nasty rotten moldy water slime under my cabin!

Is anyone in agreeance with my theory that my newly discovered water being trapped under the cabin caused my bulkhead and stringer rot? I wish I had xray vision so I could see under the cabin and know what is going on underneath with those drains in there!

If I was you when you replace the bulkhead I would get rid of the drain. Plug it at the other end.

Did it cause the rot,,,,,,, hard to say. You know at this point the big thing is if you are going to fix it before the season or after. If you are going to do it now you have to get the motors out and at that point you will really be able figure things out.

For screws and such I have been using life seal. I think Brian41 sugested it on here. Issue with 5200 you will not be able to get it apart again.