Rotten bulkhead HELP!
 

SOOO.... I was excitedly installing our new Stainless Marine exhaust systems in our 1995 Fountain 32 Fever which is not a fun job as far as access goes. As you can imagine I was all wadded up down in the bilge my body painfully contorted in different spots etc. when all of a sudden I hear a "cracking" sound by my foot! I extracted my body from it's current position and low and behold I found my foot had went through the damn bulkhead! (FRONT or bow side of engine bay not transom)

Yes I did REPEATEDLY scream the F word among other things then almost started crying...

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Obviously this will need repairs! To make matters worse upon further inspection, the main center stringer from the bulkhead back I can push on the sides and it is soft (meaning I can see it move) near all the way back to where the engines mount. UGH!!! This boat was in great condition, always garage kept and maintained when we bought it this last July. I would have never guessed this to be an issue with how the previous owner treated it (or so claimed) and all I have read about how Fountain boats are heartily constructed. I guess my ignorance has bitten me in the ass on this one so please save me the "should have gotten a survey blah, blah, blah" comments. I did not know a thing about boats when I bought it and didn't even know there were such a thing as surveys for boats so I guess this is what I get for being excited COMPLETLY RETARDED and jumping headfirst into performance boating without all the knowledge I obviously needed.... ANYWAYS...

My question is, what is behind this bulkhead where my foot went through (besides stupid rotten wood)!? Has anyone else had this issue? Is there anything back there that is most likely and guaranteed to be rotten and needing replaced as well? Should I cut my losses and get out of this thing and just sell it? I am not familiar with what is behind or have seen how it is constructed behind this bulkhead so I have NO idea what this repair entails. What will I be looking at as far as replacement costs with my rotten center stringer and this rotten bulkhead? HELP and thanks in advance! LOL! :(

I hate to say it but If the center stringer is soft it's sure to have spread to other places. I went thru the same thing on my scarab. Found a few soft spots, ended up with a full transom and stringer replacement.

I'm sure this isn't what you want to hear right now, but the boat will need to be de-rigged, all the rot ground out and all new wood/glass installed where the rot is found.

Hopefully, it's not too bad and can be repaired.

My experience tells me if your main stringer and bulkhead are rotten, your transom is probably the first one that had rot, then after the other. Might not, but chances are good...

Sell it right now for close to 10 k less, or jump in, have it fixed for... 5 k maybe, and keep it!

How s the transom? Did you check it?

The center stringer is solid near the transom so hopefully the transom is ok... lol

Yes I figured the engines need to come out at least for the center stringer. I think I may tackle removal of the engines myself and take it somewhere for the stringer and bulkhead replacement however.

I pulled one of the exhaust tips (since the exhaust is out already) and it looks ok where it goes through the transom. Since this is a 32 Fountain and they sit low in the back I figured they would be for sure be a great point of entry for water but to my surprise it was dry and in great shape. Obviously this is at the top of the transom and there could be things below rotten... I may need to pull a drive to check to make sure. Can I check from the inside of the transom somehow to see without doing that?

Typically transoms are glassed fully, and then the stringers and bulkheads are put in. Meaning there is no glass to separate the wood from the bulkhead and stringer, but there is at the transom. It's a lot of work but not the end of the world. I've fixed it on formulas, donzi's, cigarettes, etc. later fountains were not built for longevity. Seems like they were done good enough to get them out the door.

Well that's encouraging to know the transom may be ok if it was built like you say. Do you have any idea what is behind the bulkhead that may be rotten also?

Your gas tank is on the other side. Remove the fuel sender access cover inside the rear seat storage and see if you can gather any more info.

Hmmmmmmm
I can tell you about this. Send me a email at [email protected].

As for the bulkhead mine was only rotted a little close to where yours is,,,,, that was the good news. If you keep it you will have to Derig it. You will find more, take a mallet and tap around on the transom from the drive side, mine didn't have glass between the transom and stringers,,,,, go figure.

Btw

I see a drain at the bottom by the stringer? Mine didn't have that does yours US1?

No. Mine doesn't have the drain either at the very bottom. My '94 did, but not my '99. Some point in-between I believe they did away with that lower drain in case of a tank rupture to contain the fuel to the tank compartment, or fumes from bilge to cabin. Heard both reasons.




Kinda wonder if you'll find more rot, considering your corrosion issues with your breakers? Hopefully you won't get into issues forward of that rear bulkhead. That'd be a big job if so

So I went out after work today and I opened up that hole my foot went through a little so I could try and peek in there with a flashlight and do some digging. I used a screwdriver and raked it across the the back of the hole pretty hard and it seemed very solid you can see the marks where I was scratching it in the picture. It looks like whatever is in front of that piece has disentegrated and left a gap between the bilge paint "shell" and the hard wood behind it.

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I opened up the acess port for the fuel tank sender under the rear bench too It looked dirty down in there but nothing stood out as being rotten or currently wet but I can't see down around it. The black/ browness of the area is weird though maybe it was exposed to mold or something at some point? You can see the wood it's up against looks ok though.

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This picture looks suspect to me only because of the white paint you see on the carpet. It is like someone didn't tape it off. When I stand in the rear seat compartment and "bounce" on the floor it has some give too... not like it's rotten but more like the wood is too thin. Maybe it is supposed to be this way? The white that is used there also does not match the rest of the whites patina in the engine compartment as well. I almost think this portion of the panel has been off and replaced. What do you think?

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When I "tap" around the whole bulkhead with the handle af a screwdriver I can hear the pitch change pretty drastically and is seems to only be as high as the top of the center stringer and below the drain hole that goes through to the rear seat compartment you see in the next picture. It is the same on both sides of the stringer and about 12 or so inches outwards toward the next stringers if that makes sense.

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The center stringer seems to be hollow to some degree in the whole area in this pic as well when I do my" tap test". It looks like someone (or the factory) has remounted the hatch ram and filled the holes for whatever reason since they seem to look like they would line up? If you look close there is paint on the ram housing and a few bolts too... Do you think these components should have paint on them or is someone covering up a repair? I guess I get paranoid when I see things like that but It may explain this situation??

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In this next picture you can see a "raised" portion of the stringer that protrudes outward where the engine mount bolts to the stringer next to the red power wire. Everywhere around this protrusion is solid when I tapped on it but not underneath it to the rear by the bilge pumps on either side..I tested the rear of this stringer near the transom and it is only hollow sounding near the bottom edge maybe 1/2 to 3/4 the way up the stringer itself by the bilge pumps and the transom sounds solid when I beat on it as well in various places. The rear of the stringer at the transom is "notched" and has a cut out in it for the drain plug area. It seems to be soild there where it connects to the transom so I think I am safe there... knock on wood! lol

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My boat has drain tube holes I see clear up under the front cuddy bed area in two little compartments. If I squirt water in the two "locker" areas under the bed it comes out right in the engine compartment where those two tubes are. When I got the boat I discovered those two "compartments" and it looked to have had standing water stains and crud/ dirt in them for whatever reason. They were slow to drain also so I reamed them out as far as I could go with two coat hangers hooked together awhich was as far as I could go before encountering resistance and they drain much better now. There was lots of black icky debris that came out of the rear drains while I was doing this. I really thought blocking those drains off would be a good idea since I cannot forsee a time where I would want water from the bilge sloshing and going back up those tubes forward, going who knows where before ending up in the front of the boat. They are obviously there for a reason but I can't see why they are there for the life of me... it's not like there will be gallons of water leaking in my bed that need drained directly into the bilge...


US1 and Wildman_grafix have stated the newer 32 Fevers do not have the center drains under the fuel tank that dump into the engine compartment. Can this have something to do with why this rotted out on mine? Maybe the drains are not sealed and have "wicked" up water into the bulkhead and center stringer and rotted them out. It would make sence if the last owner left standing water in the bilge all the time and it was in the drains.

My "other" hypothesis is that under the rear seat that panel has been rotted out and at some point replaced/ repaired. In doing so they did not realize the the full damage went down as far as it did (or did not care) and the center lower portion and center stringer were rotten as well. That would explain my prevoius corroded breaker problem, the odd paint I noticed under the bench seat area and how dirty the fuel tank looks from what I can see of it.

I really want to know what is "under" the fuel tank and if its anything I need to worry about being rotten as well.

So from what I gather with my exploration is that the engines need to come out to replace/ repair the center stringer... that is a given... but I am still at a loss for WHY this bulkhead and stringer is rotten where it is however? I need to figure the "cause" of this rot out before fixing it!

They all rot.

Mostly from improperly sealed penetrations.

All those fasteners along the stringers will lead to rot if not sealed and the other bulkhead penetrations don't look well sealed either. That kind of thing is why a 20 year old wood boat gets rotten.

Sorry to hear about this. It looks like someone may have deliberately covered up the problem. I wonder if that extra wood behind the motor mount and plates is factory? The good news is that there are plenty of Fountain guys and glass guys here to help guide you through the repairs. If you have time to really work hard on it maybe you can salvage this boating season. Good luck.

In regards to your 1st paragraph, I'm betting the hard surface you are feeling with the screwdriver is the back side of the glass that is inside your gas tank compartment. The wood grain you are seeing is just the outer skin which is bonded to the glass, the rest of the wood is gone.

I'm pretty sure my stringers have that built up look to them also. Probably to build up the spacing for the inside alum angle mounts. I have paint on my rear seat storage carpeting to. I'm not seeing anything that looks like previous work.

Be careful with your screwdriver tap test. You'll get a different sound when tapping in the middle of a panel vs when tapping along an adjoins panel or even the engine mount. Anything that adds some more rigidity can influence tap tone. Drill some small holes and read the chips

Yes the main stringer is thicker in the middle. Also there seems to be two layers on the forward bulkhead, not sure why.

Why,,,,,,,,, Steve Stepp Told me once because they don't make wood that doesn't rot. Like Vintage said every one of those screw holes etc, are not sealed and water can get in. Its a pain to pull every screw and then seal them back up. Boat manufacturers don't do that.

Yes you will need to pull motors and then maybe find out where it started. As for getting on the water this year depends on how much time you have to work on it and if you have a good place to work on it.

It is time consuming,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, something I don't have any spare of.

one of the hardest things I have done on my boat is what your about to tackle.its hard ,nasty hot work but do able.do the tear out and de-rigging yourself.cut and fit the new wood or whatever you use.have a pro glass it all in.in the end your have a better built boat and your feel good about yourself.we have all been down that road.

Now that I think about it...
Maybe for a surface for the floor to rest on??

That makes sense.

To the OP, I was in your "boat" and wondered the same thing. Then after talking to people and understanding a lot of boats will have these issues decided to fix mine.

Like BC said when you get done it will be better then the original. Just take a bunch of pictures as you Derig and it's not that bad putting it back togather.

So assuming I pull the motors etc, what does everyone think I should be paying someone to do the rest? This is ASSUMING that all I need done would be the rotten sections of the bulkhead and the center stringer repaired/ replaced.

I have seen threads where they "dig out" the center of the stringers and use some pourable stuff to fill the remaining "channel" and simply cap it off somehow. Is that something you all would recommend or is it better (or cheaper) to just replace it altogether?

I am assuming my bulkhead does not need completely replaced but "patched" in some manner and that would be acceptable.

Obviously each shop will have different opinions but I need to get a feel for what is a fair price for this work so I don't get screwed over. I also would like to know what questions I need to ask each shop in regards to what products they use or different techniques etc. Or to weed out the hacks so to speak. I think you get the idea where I am going with this, I just want to make sure it is done RIGHT and simply don't want to say "fix it" to someone that claims to know fiberglass and stringer repairs and hope for the best!

Price will depend on the extent of the damage, what materials are used to fix it, and how much you can do yourself. I don't think you want to put any pour foam or other stuff in and seal it back up since there not backbone in that stuff. The cheapest fix is wood and fiberglass resin but if you go Coosa board and Epoxy the cost go up considerably. I think if you pay someone to do it you will easily be upwards of $3-5,000 with wood and resin. I am lucky I have a fiberglass guy that only charges $30 a hr and is good at the hidden work but not great at finish gel work. The biggest issue will be finding out how much needs to be replaced.

"Seacast" is what I saw others had used...looked like it worked and was pretty easy which is something I could potentially do myself since the "positions" of everything would stay the same but like I said earlier I know little to nothing about proper repairs of this type (obviously since I bought a rotten boat lol). If that is a ghetto repair I do not want to go that route by any means!

The 3-5k sounds a little high for what I have going on but maybe I am way off base from what shops charge?

I'd be surprised if you found a reputable shop to properly repair that for cheaper than 5k.
It's always worse than you could see when you start cutting it apart.

That's why you see so many of these old boats parted out. It's just not economical to try to repair them when they rot. It's doable, but not economical or easy.

Opening up a can O worms , fountains & rot go hand in hand !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I searched and did not find many threads specifically related to Fountains but I'm new to boating and pretty ignorant in that respect so you may be right...

UGH.... time for a search on Craigslist for "stringer repair"! Lol!

Seacast. You will get a better stronger repair by bolting a 2 by 4 on either side of the stringer. Both are butcher jobs. One is honest about being a butcher job. Now, if you can live without full throttle, you can get thru the season and start the derig in the fall. You get engines out by tonight and get it to glass shop tomorrow morning there is no guarantee you will be in the water by august. Many will disagree. Say you hafta fix it now, but it was probably exactly like this last season and the boat didnt break in half and sink...

I fully derigged my boat and took it to glass dave and had transom/stringers done and it was less than 5k.

To add to that its a lot of work to rerig a twin engine boat properly. I sealed up every hole with resin and 4200

Just my experience when I had my fountain they are a mess when they glassed them, more air pockets & cavities than you can believe . I was cutting my reliefs for water pickups and you could loose tools in the pockets in the hull . They would be drug smuggling boats you could stash tons and they wouldnt find it . ha ha mass production boat hurry up .

But then all your stash would be wet...

You will also need the alignment tooling to properly re-install your offshore style engine mounts. There is no adjustment once they are bolted in, so setting them up right from the start is important.

indy is a whole lot closer to glassdave than portland oregon...otherwise everybody on here woulda said glassdave...

That's pretty bad, there isn't even any glass on that bulkhead on either side. All that was, was resin covered wood with gelcoat over it. Keep exploring, you'll probably find more shoddy build quality unfortunately. Once you go over everything then you can figure out what your repair plan is. As long as you have a place to work on it, its not that bad of a job to repair and it will be better than what came out of the factory.

So I guess the Seacast is a no no! That's a great point you bring up about it being this way for however knows how long and still running though... it may be good enough to put out to the sandbar with the family this season and tear apart during the winter...sure makes me nervous though!

I like hearing that! glassdave needs to vacation in Portland this month lol. Maybe someone on here has connections or have heard of someone in this area?

So what does this tooling consist of? Wouldn't having the measurements of where things are now recreated on the replacement stringer be enough?

I do not have a place to work other than where it is parked in my driveway and no experience in glass work. I can manage to remove the engines and drives I think but that's where I will stop on this project. Just need good solid information on where to take it and the right questions to ask when "interviewing" shops or people...

OH OH thats right .

I was using it as a point of reference for the cost of having it done.

So it sounds like 5k is the magic number for a full transom and some stringers...