Transon Assembly
 

Hey Guys!

I need to rebuild the transom assembly in my 24ft Outlaw [lots of play "side to side" and swivel pin seal is leaking]

Whats a ballpark idea of what it costs? I have had a couple of people tell mi its much easier if you are able to get a certain "nut or bolt" off, apparantly, if you cant it means pulling the motor [in my case that means pulling the backseat assembly and its a real pain] Any Thoughts?

My 2nd question: Would it be easier [cheaper?] to buy a complete transom assembly [new] and have the mechanic change it all, or would it be smarter to just rebuild my current assembly

Basically if its gonna cost [example] $2500 to rebuild/install my current transom assembly, and I can buy a new transom assembly for [example] $1500 and its gonna cost another $1500 for labour, then its only $500 more to have everything "new" and it makes sense, but, if its gonna cost $2500 to rebuild my current transom assembly, but, providing a new transom assembly to the mechanic is STILL gonna cost $2000 in Labour, it doesn't make sense to go with a "new" transom assembly

Thanks guys, ANY input is appreciated! Would love to hear from anyone who has had this done in a boat similiar to mine, I have a 24ft Outlaw, 454EFI with a B1 drive

Thanks!
Michael

You can buy a complete transom assembly for $1500 or less. It may be used, but my experience is they haven't been used much & all the parts are in good working order.
The trouble is you have to pull the motor to change it out.
I'd just do the external repair. Someone makes a plate system that looks good. Many places still use the big ugly plugs.
I wish I could remember who.

http://www.jrmarine.com/products/bellhousing.htm


http://www.jrmarine.com/instructions.htm

That's the one. Good job Irish!

They sure do make that look easy. :bsflag: Been there!!!!

Michael, I sent you a PM. I can give you a great deal on a freshwater takeoff Bravo transom assembly, either just the housing itself or complete from the inner plate to the trim pistons.

Let me know if you're interested!

Harry

First of all a HUGE Thanks! to Irish and Jason! If I can go the "plate" route it will save me some cash, and in this economy I could sure use it! It looks to me like my transom assembly already has the "big ugly plugs" [the large "allen" shaped plugs on either side of the transom assembly?] I dont know if that matters or not?

From what I can read in the instructions everything is included? Or would I need to purchase the actual swivel pin, seals, gaskets, etc from Mercury?

My next job is to find a marine mechanic that would rather make a few hundred dollars doing this job, as opposed to a couple of thousand for "re and re ing" the motor and changing the swivel pin/seal the old fashioned way.

Harry, I am going to look into the plate kit a little more before I look at buying an assembly, but, thanks!

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate it.

BTW: Jason, I found a few "you tube" video's of your boat running close to 100mph, that thing is dialed in and goes like a scalded ape!!

Michael

Michael, as they said in the movies, "make me an offer I can't refuse!"

I'd really like to make a deal on the complete assembly I have, as I have no use for it right now!

Harry

Got good news and bad news.....
If you've already got the big ugly plugs, it's been rebuilt before. You dont need to buy the plate kit, just remove the plugs.
Now the bad news.....
The reason they get slop is from the gimbal ring wearing out where the steering arm upper swivel pin mounts into it. There's a pretty good chance your gimbal ring is shot. They're pretty expensive ($700?) but someone on the tech section used to post that he could repair them.
There's nothing too complex in rebuilding the whole gimbal on the boat. Buy a drive manual, a hinge pin removal tool, and all the bearings, seals, etc and do it yourself.
If you buy a used assembly, carefully check the gimbal ring upper swivel pin area for any play.

Michael -

How far are you from the border? We could probably work something out if you were able to bring it across.

It doesn't sound too incredibly difficult, but, I would still need to pull the motor out? I think that will be the "big ticket item" You are correct on the gimbal ring as well, I spoke to a mechanic last year who mentioned the same thing.

I am about 20 mins East of Toronto, a couple of hours from the border at Niagara Falls, and maybe 4 or 5 hours from Windsor, I also have a cottage near Kingston about an hour from the "Peace bridge" in Ganonoque.

What where you thinking? Do you do these kind of repairs? Let me know, and Thanks! for the help!

Michael

Nope, no need to pull the motor. The 2 big ugly plugs in the transom assembly allow you to reach the bolt holding the upper swivel pin to the steering arm.
Like I said, get a bravo drive serice manual, it will walk you through the steps. And if you have the 12 point allen type hinge pins, buy the tool from a merc dealer. You might need an impact gun to get those out if your boat has seen salt water.
Oh yeah, and it's a good idea to replace your drive bellows while you have it apart.

Great, I will look into that. Just curious? If I was to buy a complete Bravo Transom Assembly, could I replace it without pulling the motor? Or do I need the "two ugly plugs" in the bracket to install the "new" transom assembly?

Thanks for the help rdoactive!

Michael

PS: I wish I was closer to St Louis, I would have you do it! LOL

If you would replace the whole transom assembly, you would almost have to remove the motor. The back of the motor rests on the inner transom plate.
Now just watch, someone will post they swapped theirs out while hanging the engine in place from the oak tree in their back yard.
Oh yeah, the ring repair, $225 for repair or $700 for a new one.
http://www.jrmarine.com/products/gimbal_repair.htm

Oh I have NO interest in pulling the motor out, using an Oak tree or otherwise, its a GIANT pain to do, so, thats what I am trying to avoid. Sounds like the repair might be the way to go, any idea where I could get a list of parts needed to completely rebuild the gimble? Does Mercury or anyone else sell a "rebuild kit"? or will I have to track down all the seals, gaskets, shims, etc, seperately?

Thanks for the input! If I can fix this without having to pull the motor it will save me a good chunk of cash, and a good chunk of frustration.

Thanks!
Michael

michael it's not terrably complicated where is your boat at i live at the lake and am a marine mechanic have been doing it for 14 years if the boat is down here or you can bring it down here i could do it for you or help and show you how to do it i have all the tools that are needed. on the gimbal ring if you are not in a huge hurry and its just worn out at the pin it can be sent to jr marine and be fixed for alot less than a new ring let me know if i can help.

Parts list, here's a start. I dont think there's a kit.
http://www.mercruiserparts.com/selec..._nbr=BRAVO+ONE
The manual will have a list of what to replace. It will also list prper adhesives, sealer, lubricants, etc.

Thanks again guys, this has REALLY been a big help!

Last Year I had a "noise" in the motor and ended up having to have it pulled and the top end rebuilt, a few weeks later the leak started at the transom, been a rough year!

Sikinboat: I have sent you a PM, THANKS! for the offer, thats damn decent of you!

Rdoactive: Appreciate the link, will check it out for sure! and thanks again for all the help, I do appreciate it!

Is there any way to tell if I need a complete "ring" or if I can get away with just fixing the existing one and replacing the swivel pin/seal?

Thanks!
Michael

In my little world, by the time you add up the time to send out the ring to be rebuilt and bellows being replaced I'd think new assembly would yield larger benifits long before the time comes to sell. New assembly = easier, faster, a little more $ but way more better! :drink:

AO31, I wholeheartedly agree, though I can take it one step further: Buy a used takeoff assembly from me, in excellent freshwater condition, at a great price!

Harry

As you said, make him an offer he can't refuse. Makes sense if your part needs nothing more than installation. Everybody wins!

Well, I am looking at $2500 for labour PLUS the cost of the Transom assembly ($1000-2000) so, its going to be A LOT not a "little" more money.

I think doing the repair using a "remachined" gimble ring would be less than 1K total.

If it wasn't so expensive to pull the motor I would consider it.

Just curious? If I bought a new Gimble ring could I change it without pulling the motor? Or do you need the "2 ugly plugs" to hook everything up?

you dont have to pull the motor to change the gimbal ring you can access it through the two plugs. get a manual for bravo's you should be able to get one at your local auto parts store for around 30 bucks or http://www.4shared.com/file/13782478...Manual_11.html is a link to download the manual it should work and is free hope this helps and sorry about the not being able to help. the instructions start on page 344

Gimbal ring replacement does not require the motor to be pulled. Here's what you need to do.
Buy a manual $25
Buy a hinge pin tool, $15
Read the manual instructions.
Remove drive, use the hinge pin tool to remove the bell housing.
take out the lower swivel pin cotter pin, remove the lower swivel pin.
Remove the U bolt nuts on the ring. Remove the 2 big ugly plugs, reach in with a wrench and loosen the steering shaft bolt. Loosen the nut on the upper swivel shaft from inside the boat, drop the upper swivel shaft. Now the ring comes off.
There is an upper swivel shaft bearing and seals and a lower bearing. Drfinitely replace these ~$50.
Check all the other bushings, replace if worn.
I would replace the drive bellows if its old, follow instructions from manual (bellows/adhesive $120).
Also a good time to inspect the gimbal bearing.
Send out your ring for repairs $250.
You've got $500 and a days work in it.
Now the bad news, there's a very slight possibility that the wobling upper swivel shaft has worn the transom assembly where it rides in the bearing, check to make sure the new bearing and seals seat in there correctly.
Also, since you had water leaking by the upper swivel pin seals, there might be some corrosion or pitting. Replace the pin if the bearing/seal surfaces are damaged.

Sikinboat: NO NEED to apoligize! I appreciate the help and will check out the link to the manual and/or buy one, Thanks again!

rdoactive: Thanks! I should have been more clear in my post, what I was wondering is: If I was to buy a "new" gimble ring [or a "good" used one] would I be able to replace it without pulliing the motor? or do I NEED the "two big ugly nuts" in the ring itself to get access to hook everything up? I only ask because the boat is at the cottage now, and I would like to just get a get a new/used gimble ring and change it all at once, instead of tearing it apart, sending out the ring and then waiting a week or 2 to go back up there and re install everything.

I am actually thinking this might not be THAT tough of a job, I am gonna grab a manual, and/or download one and have a look

Thanks again Guys!
Michael

does someone make a kit for Alphas as well?

Honestly, until you get it apart, you never know what you'll need. I've had frozed swivel pins that required cutting the bottom gimbal housing pin tab, stripped threads on the hinge pins, etc. You might be able to reuse the plugs or you might butcher them getting them out.
What you definitely will need are the upper swivel pin bushing and bearing, and the seal(s). Lower swivel pin bushing and cotter pin (they usually break).
You might need, new hinge pin bushings, new bellows, upper swivel pin, plugs, and of course the gimbal ring.
You in a hurry, is it warm enough to go boating in Canada?

LOL!! Well, its supposed to be 50 degree's and sunny this weekend, but, we could end up with 2 feet of snow on Monday, weather "up here" is just crazy the last few years!

I am not in a huge hurry, but, would kinda like to have my "ducks in a row" so to speak, so, that when I do start the job I have everything ready, or as much as I can have ready, as you say, I really wont know what I am up against completely until I get it apart. Thats why I wondered if I could just buy a "new" gimble ring and have it ready when I pulled the old one off? I think after doing a little [more] research there is a difference between a "gimble ring" and a "gimble housing", correct? While I have it apart I would like to change "everything" that might need changing. I had the actual "drive' itself checked last year and it was good, put a new coupler in, greased and aligned everything etc, so, I am hoping if I can fix the gimble ring I should be "good to go"

Thanks for the list Rdoactive! I am gonna start looking around for these items now, should I try Ebay? or just get them from a dealer? I assume I will also need the actual "swivel pin" and seal? My boat was previously run in salt water [but fresh water cooled] and I have heard the salt water really eats stuff like that up.

Sikinboat: I was able to download that link, THANKS! I have saved it on my laptop and will have it in front of me while I am working on the boat, be a BIG help, thanks again!

Rdoactive: Apart from the hinge puller are there any other special tools I will need? I have a pretty good selection of automotive hand tools, a compresser and most air tools, but, if there is anything else I need I would appreciate you letting me know, also, what size are those "big ugly nuts" in the side of the Gimble? they look like allen head but are HUGE!

Thanks again guys, I owe you both a few beers if we are ever at a run together!

Michael

AHHH, Ok, I apoligize guys! I was under the impression that the "Gimble Ring" HAD the "2 ugly nuts" in it, sorry, I realized now I CAN change the Gimble Ring with a new one, the nuts that I remove to gain access to the swivel pin and steering shaft aren't in the gimble ring, but, are part of a different part of the transom assembly.

Sorry, it makes more sense now!

Michael

Oh yeah, one last tip. I was just thinking, I've never changed the upper swivel shaft bearing with the gimbal housing still on the boat. I'm referring to the one that the very top of the upper swivel shaft rides in. If it's in good shape, leave it. It gets greased pretty well anyway.
I've had to knock these apart and pull out the shell to remove them, but that was with the gimbal housing off the boat. I think the manual reccomends a pilot bearing type of tool, but that could be a pita trying to do that through the swivel shaft hole in the housing.

Great! Thanks! Will have a look before I think about pulling it

Have you ever used the GhR" wrench? Supposed to be a real time saver, any thoughts?

Thanks again!
Michael

$70 for that wrench? Kinda pricy. Depending on the size of the transom steering arm cutout, you can sometimes get a regular wrench in there. Otherwise just use a punch through the plug hokes.

i dont think the wrench is worth while i have one of them and it takes two people to use it and after the first time it bent and now wont hold the nut so it was a waste of $

Sounds like I could put that $70 towards the seals, bearings, etc instead. When I use the punch and hammer do I just "tap" the flat sides to the nut to turn it? Do I do the same thing to put the "new" nut on?

I am beginning to think that this really might not be too hard to do, THANKS! again for the confidence

Michael

It;s a nylon locknut, if I remember correctly. You just need to tighten it til there's about .02 gap between the ring and gimbal housing. So if you use a hammer to tap the upper swivel pin to fully seat in tthe ring, that nut doesn't have to tighten down on anything.
I've also been able to get to that nut through the steering arm cutout in the boat on a TRS, but a punch through the holes works fine too.

Great! So, I can install the nyloc nut "before" I tap the swivel pin into place? that would make things easier!

I am gonna head to the cottage sometime this week and write down the serial number on the drive, if I have that I should be able to cross reference part numbers for all the seals, bearings, etc?

Its really warm here today, so, I am chomping at the bit to get started, but, will wait til I have all the parts "here" before I get at it, Thanks Again!

Michael