454 330 turning into 496 stroker questions
 

I have a stock 454 330 that is tired and wore out.
So I'm Turing it into a 496 bbc

60 over on the block
Forged crank
Manley h-beam rods
Crane gold rockers
Sumit racing oval port heads

What is recommended for Intake and carborater
I have an edlebrock 750 but won't be enough I don't think.

Just looking for
Pistions
Valves
Intake
Carb
cam and i need some ideas

Any suggestions and thought please and thanks
Any thought on setup would also be help full

It's going in a 24 predator marine viper
4000lbs
With imco ext. box with dual hydrolic steering
Bravo 2 upper with brave 1 lower

I would put in a roller cam. RMbuilder on this site can get you the right cam. You shuld be able to pull 525=550 hp no prob. The intake that come with the Merc HP 500 is a good manifold and and with a 850 cfm carb you should be fine. BTW make sure you check the block for clearances on the rod journals.

Good luck with the build.

Wannabe

fixx
 

you really dont need to go .060 over, a 489 will make as much power and the 496....just stay away from pro comp heads....

I have a bob m cam w a .6 lift used but for 1 season pm if you want to talk

Whats wrong with the Pro Comp Heads?

I'm not using pro comps, but have a few friends who use them (auto application) with good results. They buy bare casting and build the heads. One guy runs low 8's with them. They make good power and are dirt cheap. Think he gets them for 300 a cylinder bare casting. It sure is temping to throw a set on ad do away with my 088's.

fixx
 

on a boat,the alunimum in pro comp heads is for chit when you cool the engine with just water,,with just water the castings ware away real fast and the end results are total distruction of the engine...look up flying tomato and see what happened to his engine..

Your going to have a hell of a lot of money in that thing before your done. Only thing you'll be using is the block and it's probably a 2 bolt. Lot cheaper ways to go about this.

hey picklejim i wont have over 3000 in building this motor so if u know a cheaper way to build a 500 hp engine im open to all sugestions.

If you can build a fresh 496 for 3K your a better man than me.
Your valvetrain alone roller cam, lifters, pushrods, roller rockers, springs, retainers, severe duty intake valves, extreme duty inconel exhaust valves is going to set you back over 2K EASY.
Your still going to need the forged crank, manley rods, forged pistons, pair of heads, timing set, intake, carb, fuel pump, oil pan, valve covers, flame arrester, gaskets,machine shop work

Here is what I did in the spring of 2010.

1987, MIE/340 (7.4) 454 4 bolt main Big Block
Dip it and hone the decks and cylinders cut .060 over
Block was detailed with all casting debris removed
Scat 9000 Crank 4.25, 496 stroker
Scat 26385P - 6.385 in. Connecting Rods - Bushed -I Beam Forged 4340 steel
Howards Cams 120255 - Max Torque Retrofit Hydraulic Roller Camshafts, Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 288/294, Lift .585/.610, 112 L/S
Howards Matching Valve Springs 98636 - 130# / 330#
Cloyes Gear 9-203 - Cloyes Wear Plate, 031 in. Thick,
Maxspeeding Hydraulic Retrofit Roller Lifters
Probe 496 Dome Top +18.0cc - SRS Piston Set
Clevite 77 Cam Bearings
Federal-Mogal 4400 M20 Main Bearings
King Engine Rod Bearings CR849HP
Cloyes true double roller timing chain
Mahle - Plasma Moly Coated piston rings
Melling 10778C (Anti-Cavitation) oil pump
Melling HV oil pump shaft.
New Harmonic Balancer
Rotating Assembly Fully Balanced
Comp Cams High-Tech pushrods #7954
Completely refreshed Chevy Heads 14096188 / 454 Open / 118cc / 3angle valve
APR head bolt sets
ARP 1.90 rocker studs
Norris S/S 1.7 roller rockers
Seal Power Gasket set
EDELBROCK BBC R2 AIRGAP INTAKE
Pro Comp 2752 Fuel Pump
Pro Comp Ignition
Pro Comp distributor
Super Stock coil
8mm Accel Hi performance wires
New single wire alternator
Mini (gear reduction and fully marine) starter
Edelbrock 800 carburetor
12" aluminum, oval air cleaner (with K&N filter)
Brass freeze plugs
Stainless steel bolt set
4” Stainless steel "tall" risers
496 MerCruiser exhaust manifolds
Sherwood motor mounted raw water pump

I agree!!!

And why the oval port heads???? I didn't even know summit offered a oval port bbc head with their name on them.

I jus built two for my 10meter.5grand a pop.time you dress it out easy five.....and that s using some used parts....oh yea,thats less exhaust.

How much hp did make ?

fixx
 

done,,go boating...

http://www.competitionproducts.com/5...o/TSELB540095/

540 short block under 4500..
http://www.competitionproducts.com/B...o/CPX540098SH/

4:19AM?? Dude don't you ever sleep :lolhit:

fixx
 

no,,will get plenty when im either ashes or 6' under..i was out pimpin my ho's

well these heads are oval port with sumit racing stamped right in them. there pretty much identical to the dart cast heads and ill have less than a 1000 in the heads all set up i paid 600 for the heads and 75 for crane gold rockers the only thing i need for them yet is valves and springs the heads will be good to go

picked up a lot of my parts at a swap meet up here

hey guys im not trying to start anything **** on here im just looking for advice and letting people know about how my build is going is all

just about the single cheapest part you are using is the block. find another one. one that spent it's life being cooled by anti-freeze instead of salt water.

I agree. I paid 300 bucks for a mint used std bore 4 bolt mark iv 454 block. It was used in a car. The insides of the water jackets were like new. Vs a old marine block that you turn upside on the stand and tap the block with a hammer and piles of rust fall out.

I know summit sells a 308CC iron rect port head. Basically the 308 Dart Iron Eagle under summits name for a few bucks less. Maybe years back they used a oval port.

Any idea what CC these oval ports you have are?

Be sure to check the trunnions of the crane rockers. I have had a few crack at the trunnions. Split right in half. Granted they were from the 80's and had served their cycle duty and then some.

Dart New Blem Iron Eagle Big Block Chevrolet 308cc Intake, Cast Iron Cylinder Heads with 121cc Combustion Chambers.


Cut for 2.250 / 1.880 valves.

thats what heads they are. the rockers i have look to be in good condtions. the thing im trying to figure out is what kinda of cam would work best for me sitiuatuion. also my buddy that is helping me out wants me to go to efi on this motor vrs carb and thoughts

Well then those should be rect port heads, not ovals.

What exhaust will you be running? That is important with cam choice. Are you gonna go with a roller cam or flat tappet? EFI can be nice, carb is much cheaper, and pretty simple.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-152125/

Those should be the heads you have.

yes those are my bad i ment to say rec port and yesi would like to run exhasut for the right price im trying to keep a low budget and do as much as i can myself. so exhasut i was just thinking somthingc cheap to get me started

carb is what i want to do just cuz om staying low budget but he thinks spend the money and do it right would be better and would pay off

Well, the stock mercury cast iron stuff begins to hinder performance around 350HP. At 400HP, a aftermarket good set of manifolds will show some gains. Definitly worthwhile at 500HP and up.

Plus with stock exhaust you need to be very conservative on cam choice, because of water reversion. Too much overlap and you'll suck water right into the cylinder thru the exhaust valve.

I wouldn't call going EFI "doing it right" and carb "doing it wrong". Plenty of guys running carbs on anything from 300HP to 1300HP.

All I can suggest for now, is to really think about what you wanna do. If you wanna do it right, and not cut corners, don't slap a bunch of used parts together and hope for the best. Your original estimate of having 3G into this 496 Stroker is just not accurate. You may jot some stuff on paper and it might look good. Once you start building these things, and adding up all the little things, it adds up real quick. Take your time, do your homework, and get the best parts/assembly/machine work you can afford. And don't take a buddy's advice to the grave, unless you're 100% sure he's golden, and proved it with his own stuff. I've seen way to many people give advice on building engines at the bar or dock, and some of it is flat out scary.

If you want help, lets start with your shortblock.

What generation block do you have?

What exact crankshaft do you have?

What rods? Length, brand, style, etc.

What pistons do you plan on using? Part number/make

What flywheel and balancer do you have?

What rings are you going to use?

What oil pan are you using?

Are you going to have the block bored, honed, decked, line honed, clearanced, etc?

Next lets move to the top end.

What valves are you going to use? You'll want a Inconel exhaust valve in a marine engine.

What valve springs?

What cam style? Hyd roller or flat tappet?

What intake manifold?

What carburetor?

What ignition system?

We need to see the big picture of what you're doing.

What generation block do you have?
1988 454 thats all i know

What exact crankshaft do you have?
stock so far but buying new one

What rods? Length, brand, style, etc.
manley 6.385 h beam

What pistons do you plan on using? Part number/make
no clue yet

What flywheel and balancer do you have?
just stock so far

What rings are you going to use?
no clue

What oil pan are you using?
12 quart i believe

Are you going to have the block bored, honed, decked, line honed, clearanced, etc?
yea all the above bored .06 over by kenowa auto in mi

Next lets move to the top end.
Dart New Blem Iron Eagle
crane gold 1.7
is all i have so far

What valves are you going to use? You'll want a Inconel exhaust valve in a marine engine.
no clue yet

What valve springs?
no clue yet

What cam style? Hyd roller or flat tappet?
not sure

What intake manifold?
dont remeber what one we were talking about

What carburetor?
not sure yet

What ignition system?
msd is what i have for it dont know what style it is its at my shop yet

dont have much stuff yet together but just one peace at a time so far
and my friend is super smart about sbc stuff and knows a little bit about bbc stuff but not a ton but i do trust him and he is pretty dang smart when it comes to that stuff

but i do thank u a ton for helping out thats why i love this site people are pretty nice and fun to talk to, so much to learn

What generation block do you have?
1988 454 thats all i know Make sure they sonic test the block. Its 25 years old and may very well rotted a lot of meat off the cylinder barrels. Especially at .060 over. A 4 bolt block would be better, but not totally necessary.



What exact crankshaft do you have?
stock so far but buying new one. Ok. A scat 4.25 Stroker crank. Rough estimate 700.00

What rods? Length, brand, style, etc.
manley 6.385 h beam Good Rods. For a few extra bucks I'd upgrade to the ARP2000 bolts.

What pistons do you plan on using? Part number/make
no clue yet. If your running iron heads, your probably gonna want to run a small dome piston, to get you around 9:1 to 9:5:1. A set of SRP's will run around 600.00

What flywheel and balancer do you have?
just stock so far. Since your gonna be going from a external balance, to a internal balance crank, youre old stuff wont work. Your gonna spend about 300-600 dollars here depending on quality.

What rings are you going to use?
no clue A basic plasma moly ring set probably about 150 bucks

What oil pan are you using?
12 quart i believe Good

Are you going to have the block bored, honed, decked, line honed, clearanced, etc?
yea all the above bored .06 over by kenowa auto in mi Machine bill could be 500-1000 bucks depending on level of work to the block.

Next lets move to the top end.
Dart New Blem Iron Eagle
crane gold 1.7
is all i have so far

What valves are you going to use? You'll want a Inconel exhaust valve in a marine engine.
no clue yet Inconel valves roughly 40 bucks ea. So 320.00 in intake valves. Severe duty intakes, about 175 a set of 8. so roughly 500 bucks in valves total.
What valve springs?
no clue yet A decent set of valve springs for a hyd roller setup around 200 bucks. Step up to tool room springs and almost double that. Plus new retainers,seals and locks.

What cam style? Hyd roller or flat tappet?
not sure A Hyd roller cam itself is around 300-400 bucks. Street roller lifters about 325, or endurance morel lifters about 500-600. So hyd roller cam and lifter set, about 1k bucks if you want good stuff.

What intake manifold?
dont remeber what one we were talking about You can do a professional products "hurricane intake". Its almost identical to the dart single plane, but a lot cheaper. About 225 bucks.

What carburetor?
not sure yet A single 850 or even 950 would work fine. Figure around 500-600 bucks here.

What ignition system?
msd is what i have for it dont know what style it is its at my shop yet MSD is good



Just in this thread, we're up to 4000-5000 dollars. We haven't even got into fasteners, gaskets, oil lines, and so on.

What generation block do you have?
1988 454 thats all i know Make sure they sonic test the block. Its 25 years old and may very well rotted a lot of meat off the cylinder barrels.
yes that will all be done by them



What exact crankshaft do you have?
stock so far but buying new one. Ok. A scat 4.25 Stroker crank. Rough estimate 700.00
thats what we were thinking

What rods? Length, brand, style, etc.
manley 6.385 h beam Good Rods. For a few extra bucks I'd upgrade to the ARP2000 bolts.
yes have them with rods

What pistons do you plan on using? Part number/make
no clue yet. If your running iron heads, your probably gonna want to run a small dome piston, to get you around 9:1 to 9:5:1. A set of SRP's will run around 600.00
i was thinking 9/1 to

What flywheel and balancer do you have?
just stock so far. Since your gonna be going from a external balance, to a internal balance crank, youre old stuff wont work. Your gonna spend about 300-600 dollars here depending on quality.

What rings are you going to use?
no clue A basic plasma moly ring set probably about 150 bucks

What oil pan are you using?
12 quart i believe Good

Are you going to have the block bored, honed, decked, line honed, clearanced, etc?
yea all the above bored .06 over by kenowa auto in mi Machine bill could be 500-1000 bucks depending on level of work to the block.
my friends dad is part owner in that company so will get that work done cheaper

Next lets move to the top end.
Dart New Blem Iron Eagle
crane gold 1.7
is all i have so far

What valves are you going to use? You'll want a Inconel exhaust valve in a marine engine.
no clue yet Inconel valves roughly 40 bucks ea. So 320.00 in intake valves. Severe duty intakes, about 175 a set of 8. so roughly 500 bucks in valves total.
What valve springs?
no clue yet A decent set of valve springs for a hyd roller setup around 200 bucks. Step up to tool room springs and almost double that. Plus new retainers,seals and locks.
we were looking at about 200 for all the valves his dads a bunch of stuff that we can grab fron hin

What cam style? Hyd roller or flat tappet?
not sure A Hyd roller cam itself is around 300-400 bucks. Street roller lifters about 325, or endurance morel lifters about 500-600. So hyd roller cam and lifter set, about 1k bucks if you want good stuff.

What intake manifold?
dont remeber what one we were talking about You can do a professional products "hurricane intake". Its almost identical to the dart single plane, but a lot cheaper. About 225 bucks.

What carburetor?
not sure yet A single 850 or even 950 would work fine. Figure around 500-600 bucks here.

What ignition system?
msd is what i have for it dont know what style it is its at my shop yet MSD is good



Just in this thread, we're up to 4000-5000 dollars. We haven't even got into fasteners, gaskets, oil lines, and so on.
yea i would agree on that price is it was just me and no conections to getting my hand on some good partsfor cheap there family is big into racing and that his dad is part owner at kenowa it helps out a ton

i just want to thank you again for the help

Btw you will also need a harmonic balllencer for a 427 BBC another 3 bills

No prob...It's worth it when you come back on here in 6 months and report how great it runs

Yea ill let everyone know and keep updates on how it's going and everything.

Not Dyno-ed but its 500 sane HP.
Look over what I did. I spent months researching and putting a package together for the least money possible with out compromising the build. The way I look at it either build a motor within reason or build a Nascar motor. ie; a great super expensive set of heads on a good motor is a waste being you will only get a another 10 to 15hp out of them on a great motor (less on not so great motor) and in a boat that adds up to nothing when you put a extra cooler on board.

No reason you cant make 550-600hp.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...d/viewall.html

Mild Thunder you should get your own HELP column in a magazine :thankyouthankyou:

hey thunder ur saying if i build it simuler to that build it could have 550-600 hp i was hoppng for anything over 450 hp and be reliable and not have to rebuild it within 50 hrs

i bet you could shave at least a grand off of that build list on items such as the carb, you could get a used one and rebuild yourself for much less. i wouldnt be scared of a few other used parts like intake, distrib/ignition, rockers and lifters either. i have a 454 block sitting here, i bought a complete engine off craigslist for 350 bucks, it was a 98ish L29 454 4 bolt roller block. that block i sold the efi off of for 250 bucks, exahust manifolds for 75, heads 200, pistons/rods 100 and 75 on the crank. so not only did i not pay for the block but i am up 350 bucks....

just a few ways a guy might save a few bucks on a budget build

A man after my own heart.:bunnydance: