Complete repowering of a brick
10-23-2015 | 04:10 PM
#341
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Posts: 386
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From: Beaverton Or
Aka heavy cruiser....i do a lot of boating on the Willamette river which a fairly narrow but deep (1/4 mile wide) river going thru Portland. It is absolutely humorus to watch some of the bigger boats heading out to the Columbia @ about 15mph, they kick a wake that's about 3-5 ft and rolls fairly good distance. Mean while the little runabout's come scooting down the river at about 30 and when they hit those roller's it something to watch...very reminiscent of a indy race pile up. Someday i will have to remind myself to make a vid...it's crazier than a boat ramp on the 4th of july..
Last edited by Pliant; 10-23-2015 at 04:14 PM.
10-26-2015 | 08:53 AM
#342
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Aka heavy cruiser....i do a lot of boating on the Willamette river which a fairly narrow but deep (1/4 mile wide) river going thru Portland. It is absolutely humorus to watch some of the bigger boats heading out to the Columbia @ about 15mph, they kick a wake that's about 3-5 ft and rolls fairly good distance. Mean while the little runabout's come scooting down the river at about 30 and when they hit those roller's it something to watch...very reminiscent of a indy race pile up. Someday i will have to remind myself to make a vid...it's crazier than a boat ramp on the 4th of july..
10-26-2015 | 08:58 AM
#343
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My Baja had the built in hooks in the back of the hull too. Had them sanded off, and gained little or no speed, and now have to drop the tabs a little more to keep from porpoising. Not drastic, but noticeable. I wouldn't bother.
10-26-2015 | 09:42 AM
#344
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,198
Likes: 500
From: KY
We took a ride years back (Rinker) from Louisville to KY lake and down past the Tom Bixby water way to Pic Wick MS. Along the way in the narrows, found a old 50 or 60 foot cruiser coming toward use kick up a 3 foot roller. Slowed down and idled over it and as soon as we were past the wake the cruiser slowed down. Called to him on the radio and said thanks for the after thought, his response was "It was a for thought". What an jerk, meet them ever where you go
Ordered a new trailer from Loadmaster in Ohio, should fit much better.
Ordered a new trailer from Loadmaster in Ohio, should fit much better.
12-20-2015 | 05:24 AM
#347
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 482
Likes: 400
From: Danville, IN
I really enjoyed the project and followed along on another forum until you stopped updating. Interesting reading this one as I didn't see you express your frustrations over there, and I about crapped when I saw the dollar amount invested.
For some reason I can't see the dyno chart on my phone. What rpm is the 120hp gain? What Hp is it making at 5200 rpm? Your whole induction and cam were setup for low end power and torque...so did it only gain big down there? I apologize for not being able to see this answer on the chart myself...I just can't see or open any attachments.
I own a Superflow engine dyno and have been around all brands my whole life. It's a bad practice, but you can just change correction factor for the atmosphere and make the thing read whatever hp you want to see. I'm not suggesting that is what happened, but I know guys that do it LOL. Engine dyno room design, airflow, air quality and all sorts of things are extremely critical to getting repeatable results....even from one pull to the next. I'm sure it's a non-issue...I personally think the boat is running like it should.
Correct me if I'm being plain stupid here...but you have the same drive ratio, the same prop, and the same rpm......There is no reason to expect more mph. I know you tried the 26 and had slip (also wasn't that 5050 Rpm?) Still wondering why you aren't seeing mph after going back to the 24 is no mystery. If it won't turn more rpm then it isn't making more power. If it will turn more rpm and aren't allowing it to turn more, then it isn't going to go faster.
I don't know if your hull is different from the newer model...that would be a question for Formula. What I can tell you is that it isn't "maxed out" if it is the same. I think you are just out of horsepower...it's 500hp going 48mph in an 11,000 lb boat. You gained 2 mph. My 27PC with 600hp (assuming 600hp based on Mercs ratings) runs 50 mph with my family and a weekends worth of crap, I'm always full on fuel and water. They can be out back on the bench seat or asleep in the v-berth...still runs 50. Cold air in the fall I got another 2 mph. Point being...that's another 100hp over yours and 2-3 mph. The bottom of my boat is showroom clean every time it hits the water...if that's a factor. I had a bunch of guys on the boat at LOTO shootout and were running back after the race through the insane waves and even with all that weight we still ran 48-49. These boats were offered with 850hp and with the bigger engines they run into the 56-60 range. That's why I say the hull isn't limiting you...it's lack of hp to move this big boat. These are about the size of a 290 Sundancer.
The only thing throwing me off a little is the 28mph planing speed is just weird. Maybe the single engine is a much bigger factor than I think. My best fuel Econ is at 24 mph and the boat planes well under 20 without the tabs down. It's more comfortable to drive at 28-30, but that's scooting along on top of the water pretty good. That one was a mystery to me.
Best of luck. Just trying to play devils advocate.
For some reason I can't see the dyno chart on my phone. What rpm is the 120hp gain? What Hp is it making at 5200 rpm? Your whole induction and cam were setup for low end power and torque...so did it only gain big down there? I apologize for not being able to see this answer on the chart myself...I just can't see or open any attachments.
I own a Superflow engine dyno and have been around all brands my whole life. It's a bad practice, but you can just change correction factor for the atmosphere and make the thing read whatever hp you want to see. I'm not suggesting that is what happened, but I know guys that do it LOL. Engine dyno room design, airflow, air quality and all sorts of things are extremely critical to getting repeatable results....even from one pull to the next. I'm sure it's a non-issue...I personally think the boat is running like it should.
Correct me if I'm being plain stupid here...but you have the same drive ratio, the same prop, and the same rpm......There is no reason to expect more mph. I know you tried the 26 and had slip (also wasn't that 5050 Rpm?) Still wondering why you aren't seeing mph after going back to the 24 is no mystery. If it won't turn more rpm then it isn't making more power. If it will turn more rpm and aren't allowing it to turn more, then it isn't going to go faster.
I don't know if your hull is different from the newer model...that would be a question for Formula. What I can tell you is that it isn't "maxed out" if it is the same. I think you are just out of horsepower...it's 500hp going 48mph in an 11,000 lb boat. You gained 2 mph. My 27PC with 600hp (assuming 600hp based on Mercs ratings) runs 50 mph with my family and a weekends worth of crap, I'm always full on fuel and water. They can be out back on the bench seat or asleep in the v-berth...still runs 50. Cold air in the fall I got another 2 mph. Point being...that's another 100hp over yours and 2-3 mph. The bottom of my boat is showroom clean every time it hits the water...if that's a factor. I had a bunch of guys on the boat at LOTO shootout and were running back after the race through the insane waves and even with all that weight we still ran 48-49. These boats were offered with 850hp and with the bigger engines they run into the 56-60 range. That's why I say the hull isn't limiting you...it's lack of hp to move this big boat. These are about the size of a 290 Sundancer.
The only thing throwing me off a little is the 28mph planing speed is just weird. Maybe the single engine is a much bigger factor than I think. My best fuel Econ is at 24 mph and the boat planes well under 20 without the tabs down. It's more comfortable to drive at 28-30, but that's scooting along on top of the water pretty good. That one was a mystery to me.
Best of luck. Just trying to play devils advocate.
Last edited by DRAG; 12-20-2015 at 05:36 AM. Reason: Mispelling
12-20-2015 | 07:50 AM
#348
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,248
Likes: 3
From: indianapolis
I really enjoyed the project and followed along on another forum until you stopped updating. Interesting reading this one as I didn't see you express your frustrations over there, and I about crapped when I saw the dollar amount invested.
For some reason I can't see the dyno chart on my phone. What rpm is the 120hp gain? What Hp is it making at 5200 rpm? Your whole induction and cam were setup for low end power and torque...so did it only gain big down there? I apologize for not being able to see this answer on the chart myself...I just can't see or open any attachments.
I own a Superflow engine dyno and have been around all brands my whole life. It's a bad practice, but you can just change correction factor for the atmosphere and make the thing read whatever hp you want to see. I'm not suggesting that is what happened, but I know guys that do it LOL. Engine dyno room design, airflow, air quality and all sorts of things are extremely critical to getting repeatable results....even from one pull to the next. I'm sure it's a non-issue...I personally think the boat is running like it should.
Correct me if I'm being plain stupid here...but you have the same drive ratio, the same prop, and the same rpm......There is no reason to expect more mph. I know you tried the 26 and had slip (also wasn't that 5050 Rpm?) Still wondering why you aren't seeing mph after going back to the 24 is no mystery. If it won't turn more rpm then it isn't making more power. If it will turn more rpm and aren't allowing it to turn more, then it isn't going to go faster.
I don't know if your hull is different from the newer model...that would be a question for Formula. What I can tell you is that it isn't "maxed out" if it is the same. I think you are just out of horsepower...it's 500hp going 48mph in an 11,000 lb boat. You gained 2 mph. My 27PC with 600hp (assuming 600hp based on Mercs ratings) runs 50 mph with my family and a weekends worth of crap, I'm always full on fuel and water. They can be out back on the bench seat or asleep in the v-berth...still runs 50. Cold air in the fall I got another 2 mph. Point being...that's another 100hp over yours and 2-3 mph. The bottom of my boat is showroom clean every time it hits the water...if that's a factor. I had a bunch of guys on the boat at LOTO shootout and were running back after the race through the insane waves and even with all that weight we still ran 48-49. These boats were offered with 850hp and with the bigger engines they run into the 56-60 range. That's why I say the hull isn't limiting you...it's lack of hp to move this big boat. These are about the size of a 290 Sundancer.
The only thing throwing me off a little is the 28mph planing speed is just weird. Maybe the single engine is a much bigger factor than I think. My best fuel Econ is at 24 mph and the boat planes well under 20 without the tabs down. It's more comfortable to drive at 28-30, but that's scooting along on top of the water pretty good. That one was a mystery to me.
Best of luck. Just trying to play devils advocate.
For some reason I can't see the dyno chart on my phone. What rpm is the 120hp gain? What Hp is it making at 5200 rpm? Your whole induction and cam were setup for low end power and torque...so did it only gain big down there? I apologize for not being able to see this answer on the chart myself...I just can't see or open any attachments.
I own a Superflow engine dyno and have been around all brands my whole life. It's a bad practice, but you can just change correction factor for the atmosphere and make the thing read whatever hp you want to see. I'm not suggesting that is what happened, but I know guys that do it LOL. Engine dyno room design, airflow, air quality and all sorts of things are extremely critical to getting repeatable results....even from one pull to the next. I'm sure it's a non-issue...I personally think the boat is running like it should.
Correct me if I'm being plain stupid here...but you have the same drive ratio, the same prop, and the same rpm......There is no reason to expect more mph. I know you tried the 26 and had slip (also wasn't that 5050 Rpm?) Still wondering why you aren't seeing mph after going back to the 24 is no mystery. If it won't turn more rpm then it isn't making more power. If it will turn more rpm and aren't allowing it to turn more, then it isn't going to go faster.
I don't know if your hull is different from the newer model...that would be a question for Formula. What I can tell you is that it isn't "maxed out" if it is the same. I think you are just out of horsepower...it's 500hp going 48mph in an 11,000 lb boat. You gained 2 mph. My 27PC with 600hp (assuming 600hp based on Mercs ratings) runs 50 mph with my family and a weekends worth of crap, I'm always full on fuel and water. They can be out back on the bench seat or asleep in the v-berth...still runs 50. Cold air in the fall I got another 2 mph. Point being...that's another 100hp over yours and 2-3 mph. The bottom of my boat is showroom clean every time it hits the water...if that's a factor. I had a bunch of guys on the boat at LOTO shootout and were running back after the race through the insane waves and even with all that weight we still ran 48-49. These boats were offered with 850hp and with the bigger engines they run into the 56-60 range. That's why I say the hull isn't limiting you...it's lack of hp to move this big boat. These are about the size of a 290 Sundancer.
The only thing throwing me off a little is the 28mph planing speed is just weird. Maybe the single engine is a much bigger factor than I think. My best fuel Econ is at 24 mph and the boat planes well under 20 without the tabs down. It's more comfortable to drive at 28-30, but that's scooting along on top of the water pretty good. That one was a mystery to me.
Best of luck. Just trying to play devils advocate.
You'll be shopping for a 38zr in no time lol. Good to see you over here.
12-20-2015 | 08:23 AM
#349
Thread Starter
Registered
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,198
Likes: 500
From: KY
I didn't see you express your frustrations over there, and I about crapped when I saw the dollar amount invested.
What rpm is the 120hp gain? What Hp is it making at 5200 rpm? Your whole induction and cam were setup for low end power and torque...so did it only gain big down there?
RPM FtLb HP
3500 580 387
3700 600 422
3900 617 458
4100 604 475
4300 594 487
4500 593 509
4700 586 524
4900 575 537
5100 560 544
The only thing throwing me off a little is the 28mph planing speed is just weird. Maybe the single engine is a much bigger factor than I think.
Have been think about this for some time and in my own non-expert opinion, I think the issue comes down to weight and prop area. As you say your boat has 600HP and also has extra weight due to extra drive but this is offset because you have more prop surface area in the water. My guess would be your prop slip is much lower then mine. I have reached the max top end for one engine, the more HP that is thrown at it only creates more slip. If I went back to 24x3 blade pitch it would over rev. While the hull is not clean and does create drag, I don't see the hull causing the increased slip to point I'm at now.
So the boat does come out of the water much easier now, and sounds great but do miss being able to muffle it down on command. My take away is if you have a heavy boat you need more then one set of props to go faster
12-20-2015 | 11:34 AM
#350
Platinum Member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 482
Likes: 400
From: Danville, IN
