Switch wiring question
 

I have a 95 Fountain 32 Fever. When I have the sound system playing and I activate the engine hatch or a power seat bolster the head unit shuts down then comes back on. I have traced the issue to the "cabin" power switch. If I run a jumper wire for the power to this switch directly to the battery the problem disappears. It looks like the main power for this switch array is "jumpered" across all the switches in this panel (there are four total and it is the last in the series.) All this wiring appears to be factory and I tampered with.

My questions are these:

1.What is the proper way to run a new power wire for the cabin and to where should I do this? For anyone familiar with Fountain boats of this era, there is also a "breaker" panel under the rear bench that I could possibly tie into but I'm not sure of its limitations. The other option would be to run a new power lead directly to the battery with some fuse or breaker arrangement possibly?

2. Is there some other issue anyone has had experience with that needs corrected instead of running a new power wire that I am overlooking. I would find it odd that the boat should work like this from the factory which makes me fearful of a short somewhere.

In case anyone is wondering, it is NOT the head unit as I have swapped it out as the old one did the same thing. I also temporarily tried to "jumper" the head units power leads directly to the port side battery with no change.

I will upload some pics I took of the panel and the current wiring when I get home this evening.

Thanks in advance and I look forward to your responses.

No its not the head unit, its the current draw across the load carrying wire, IMO all the stereo gear , head unit & amps should be directly fed from the battery with the proper size fuses. In most cases when the head unit is turned on it will activate the amps.

I did not swap out the head unit to fix this issue I swapped it out because it was old and sucked. The two amps I am running are ran directly to the battery for their power and ground so not part of this equation.

I would check the wiring and grounds to the actuator first, then move on from there.

On my dash those jumpers are a thin metal tab. Perhaps it's cracked?

Your dash switches are actually breakers. Are they being tripped?

interesting dilemma. My stereo does the same thing. Hope someone comes up with the fix.

Jonesyfxr: It's not only the hatch but the power seats that make it happen so I'm inclined to think it wouldn't be just the hatch but something else?

Cole2534: Mine are actual wires that connect each switch to give them power.

Here are some pics of the switch panel and what I'm talking about. The switch on the left is the "cabin power" switch where in this picture I have removed the jumper (orange wire) that connects it to the switch to the immediate right of it. You can see the other orange "jumpers" to the right in their original locations. The main power feed goes into the "hatch" switch on the far right and is also "orange". I do NOT know where this orange wire originates from as I have not traced it. I thought somoeone here would know and advise on that issue.

IF I run a single power wire DIRECTLY to the battery to the "cabin power" switch (far left with the jumper removed in this pic) and still use the existing switch grounds this problem is GONE. I can actuate both seats and the hatch and the head unit plays uninterupted without shutting down. LIKE IT SHOULD BE! Lol! I do not however think this is the proper remedy as stated before, but maybe I'm wrong and Fountains wiring wizards wired it this way intentionally and all these boats do this? I just want to be sure I am not putting a band aid on this problem by running a new power lead to the battery or wherever and not uncovering the real problem which will bite me in the ass at some later point.

raytart: Interesting you have the same issue! We will get to the bottom of this I promise! If we both have the same issue chances are we are not alone and someone on here will chime in with the super cool solution!

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...pse83f6c58.jpg

In this picture I have temporarily positioned the orange "jumper" wire where I found it to illustrate how it was wired. In this configuration the head unit will shut down and restart when EITHER a seat bolster or the engine hatch switch is activated. The engine hatch is the switch pictured in the far right of this picture.

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2c9260ac.jpg

This picture illustrates the side view showing the switches themselves for reference and with the "jumper" temporarily placed in original location again.

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...ps782e4b06.jpg

Seems like a power problem since you said the problem goes away when you ran that temporary wire to the batt.

How about trying to jump the orange Cabin Power switch wire all the way over to the first switch...so its not the last one getting power.

It may also be a good idea to stick a volt meter on there and see what the voltage drop is when you hit the seat switch.

I agree. What I think is happening is the seat and hatch switches are ahead of the cabin power. When you activate either of those switches there is a momentary high amp draw to get the electric motor spinning in the hatch or seat. This is called the LRA (locked rotor amp) draw of the motor. It causes a momentary voltage drop to the cabin acc. circuit and shuts down the stereo head. You could possibly check that by putting volt meter on acc. switch and watching meter drop. It would be only a slight fluctuation and might not be seen with digital meter. Analog would be easier. After motor armature comes up to speed voltage will return to normal or not depending on if size of feed wire is correct for RLA (run load amp) draw of hatch or seat electric motor. You have already figured out the fix by running a separate circuit to battery.

TooLateVTEC I will try that but I think I did already I can't remember. Those middle switches are for lights which shouldn't matter unless those switches are bad or the wire gauge is too small and somehow causing this. I think what Boater8987 is saying sounds plausable and must be what is happening.

WHY was the boat wired from the factory to operate this way? Since others have this same issue It makes me think it is suposed to be this way....???

I still am not convinced that there is not something esle wrong because it doesn't seem they would allow it to work this way from the factory! Highly illogical!


So this leaves me three ways of dealing with this:

1. Find the source of the problem causing this!


2. Run a new power wire from the battery directly to the "cabin" switch I already know will fix the problem and ignore the fact something else might be wrong and our boat may have a meltdown.


3. Run a new power wire from the "cabin" switch into the breaker panel under the rear seat. Maybe simply running a seperate dedicated wire from the cabin switch directly to the breaker it most likely is wired to already will be enough.

I would assume Fountain has originally wired the cabin/hatch/light switches to the breaker panel under the rear seat, but like I said earlier I have not traced it back. It may be tied into some other hot lead between the two points. I'm hoping someone with Fountain experience can clarify...


I do like the idea of having the wiring as close to OE as possible for ease of servicing that's why I would prefer to use the existing breaker panel if possible.

Good point. My boat did something similar, though it was related to a fault. The stereo would trip off when I activated the bow light, turns out the fixture had a fault in it.

As stated you are experiencing a current draw problem. If a radio voltage drops below say 11.5 volts they will shut down. This is similar to a problem my buddy had with a trim pump breaker. It took me a week to find it, ended up being corroded battery cables and terminal contacts at the helm.

Hard to see at pic angle but if orange feed on hatch switch to other swiches is getting Its power source internally through the hatch switch from power wire from harness. After 20 years of the combination of air, moisture, wear and tear of switch use there could be a high resistance built up in switch causing voltage drop to acc. switch when you activate hatch or seat. Maybe time for new hatch switch. Or if feed is direct from harness trace back to source remove, clean and tighten all connections. Make sure no connection or wire is loose or corroded causing high resistance that is causing the voltage drop.

First thing i would do is take apart the contacts and clean them all....it looks from the pics that there may be some light oxidation on the contacts....you may even want to replace those jumper wires as those crimps are not the best for a marine environment.... it all may be causing excess resistance and upping the amp draw. If that doesn't work then i would swap two switches and see if the problem still lies with that same circuit. If it still happens with a different switch and all contacts clean i would guess there's something on the circuit that's causing the problems and you need to start tracing/testing. :(
The one thing i cant see very well from the pictures is where the positive feed line is coming from....if its going to the hatch switch, then jumping across the the middle two switch's to the end, then i would add a second feed line on the opposite side for more capacity and see if that helps cure the issue

I feel that it's a combination of old wiring and corroded connections. I literally just rewired my whole boat. When I bought it, the gauge would read only 12 volts. After I was done it now reads 14.5 volts, just as it does at the alternator. I upgraded the main ground wire to the helm and made my own 2ga battery cables. Now my trim moves faster, my engine runs better band my gauge barely moves when I use my trim.

That's what I was thinking as well, just didn't type it out like Boater did.

That sounds like some good places to start thanks to everyone for the ideas! I will make sure and post up the results.

I also have found some threads on a similar issues and the end results were to install "hatch relays" or a kit like this:

http://www.cpperformance.com/p-13440...tor-relay.aspx

Would this be a solution for this problem do you think?

In case I need it does anyone know where I can get a new switch? The old one has screw terminals so I would like a similar replacement. I know I could just cut it all apart and put new ends on all the wires and use the readily available spade type switches but I'd rather not just for testing purposes.

You may be chasing the symptom not the problem. Perhaps try taking hatch motor to an electric small motor repair shop and have the motor cleaned up and/or rebuilt. Mine cost me $35.00. It can't hurt anything.
Just sayin'

You have a bad connection somewhere. Since it happens with both your seats and hatch, switches and hatch motors are not the issue. Look for the common connection point of BOTH the seats and side panel power lead. Look at the rear seat breaker

That power wire is plenty to do what it's intended for.

The radio draws very little, so use a speaker wire with aligator clips on each end. (Leave existing power wire hooked up) Connect 1 end to cabin switch and then work your way backwards checking at each and every connection between.

True... I definitely want to find the true cause of this issue rather than workaround. I'm no electrical genius and I have no idea how the seats are wired into all of this but since the hatch AND BOTH seats operation cause this issue to happen it would lead me to believe that it isn't the hatch actuator itself.

Have you tried checking cleaning the circut breaker-fuse for this circut.
Also an amp meter isolated to this circut may shed some light.

Does it also happen using trim or tabs?
I don't recall if the seats and cabin power is the same circut breaker, but I'm leaning towards yes. If so, check that breaker.

US1 FOUNTAIN - Ginger or Mary Ann?
PERSONALLY, I'LL TAKE MS. HOWELL SHE HAS ALL THE MONEY AND WON'T BE AROUND MUCH LONGER.

Thanks US1 I've read many of your posts and you seem quite knowledgable with Fountains which I appreciate. :ernaehrung004: Are you suggesting the seat wiring on these boats is tapped in at the rear seat breaker and that's where I should start? Sticking my head and torso through those tiny side compartments to trace wiring is less than fun as you already know I'm sure! It would seem plausible that something is amiss back there since that area always gets crammed with stuff and wet items would potentially be placed in it by the previous owner.

everything originates and is circut protected from those breakers under the seat. After being feed thru the battery switch of course. So your problem lies between the power lead from the battery at the breakers and the side panel IMO

I have not checked the connections at any of the breakers yet but it seems like where this is going.

It does not happen when I hit the trim or the tabs only the seats and the hatch. It was pretty awesome showing all our friends (who were in COMPLETE awe of its awesomeness) at the sandbar our new boat and having the radio shut down when I went to open the hatch to show them the motors! Feel good moment: FAIL! Lol!

Roger that I will check and report back with my findings for sure. This has me excited enough to put on my thermals and climb under the cover to check this out tonight! Amazing how we can get motivated by just asking a simple question... ;)

Diamond, don't forget to put di-electric grease (avaiulable at auto parts store) on any/all connections you remove and replace to protect from any further corrosion.

Thanks. Every once in awhile I can offer a rid bit. You got a lot if good advise and pointers. Just gotta step back and look at the whole picture and what applies to your particular setup.

BTW. left to choose between Ginger and MA. :)
Mary Ann always wins.

I had the same problem came down to 3 issues.
First is the switches themselves. I was getting almost a 1/2 volt drop across them. Replace them and I also soldered the contact where it is riveted to the contact post.

Second is your breaker pannel under the seat, bad place for it. Some ring termnals were loose some falling apart.

Third, it was/is a production boat. The circuit breaker pan el was a sub assembly that they plugged into the main harness. Most of my spade connectors were corroded.
There was enough wire that I took the spade connectors off putting new soldered and sealed ring terminals on and went directly to the breaker panel everything works much better after that.

Ended up with less then a 1/2 drop from battery to inside cabin.

Hope this helps.

That and clean all the connector bars off then put a good dielectric greese over everything.

So following the most excellent advise given here I pulled the breaker panel out to start:

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...ps57d7563a.jpg


I powered up everything (more on this later) then inspected the underside of the panel and the breakers wiring. As you can see the one on the right has some pretty rusty connections but that one is for the "tab pump".

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0b682f94.jpg

Moving down the row of breakers I find the one marked "cockpit power" looks like this (second one from the left):

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...psecb43bb2.jpg

Since evertyhing was powered up I felt each wire and the little jumper was actually warm to the touch where the others were not. The wire on the same terminal as the left side of the jumper (the other melted looking one) was actually loose and could be moved back and forth. The rusted screw attaching it could not be tightened any more or even loosened for removal it is completely frozen.

Another view of the "cockpit power" breaker and its awesomeness:

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...ps491af40d.jpg

http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/...psd0ba44d6.jpg

I basically had to destroy it to remove it sooooo....

Where can I buy these or a decent price? Does anyone have any recommendations on who sells them for a good price? The best price I found so far is about $25 each. I want to replace all of them since I would be stupid not to at this point.



I will need the following according to the part numbers on them:

"KLIXTON CDM-40" x 5
"KLIXTON CDM-20" x 1


HOPEFULLY this was and is the end of this problem but obviously I can't proceed with further testing until this is corrected!

Maybe try sick stinger or smokin gun here on the forum, they recycle many boat parts.

I've had good luck finding them on the online electronics stores. I think Bussman makes a similar breaker also. That is a common failure for components of that vintage.
Remember .... manufacturers build boats hard and fast. That's how the make money. Sometimes Quality is sacrificed for Profit.

Follow thos wires, you may find that there are also connectors to the main harness. They will be just as bad.

As for the breakers, all you need are the same size (rating). May try Fountain.

Be sure the full time breaker is replaced with a 20A one, and 40 for the rest. You don't want to protect a 20A circuit with a 40A breaker. That'd make the wire the fuse.

I'd use quality crimps too, not your cheap AutoZone crimps. GenuineDealz is the bomb for electrical needs. They also carry the breakers but appears out of stock on the 20's and 40's.

I ordered them here: https://www.commongroundmarine.com/index.php they were $25 each which is prolly as good as I will get them for. I wonder if I have a main harness? But after you brought it up I better find out and check the connections to be safe! Thanks!

I ordered them all, might as well do it right the first time. Do you happen to know what gauge I will need for the crimps and with what size ring they will need? By using higher quality ones are you referring to the heat shrink type? Just need to know what to order to do this job properly and I forgot to get a sample of what gauge wire and terminal size is already in there....oops!

You are right that Genuinedealz place has everything! When I figure out what terminals/ connectors/ wire I need I will order from them!

For ring size look at the new breakers you ordered, when I get home at the end of the week I can tell you what stock was. I think #8 ring on 10-12 awg.

You at the very least always want to use a sealed type of crimp. I use ones that are crimped and soldered. When you heat them up they seal and solder. Fastnel has them but are expensive.

Also gendealz is book marked, great place to get wire by the foot!

One last thing, you may want to check those switches also, you wouldn't believe how much better new ones work and my boat is a 2000.

Higher quality. Thicker copper and better insulator.

I'd buy bare ring terminals, crimp them, solder them and then shrink wrap them. Then install with di-electric grease as previosly stated.