Donzi's Future
 

What's everyone's thoughts on Craig Barrie leaving Donzi? Obviously not good for an already struggling Donzi. I know there are a lot of Donzi haters on the boards for whatever reason so I figured I'd post this here since we all have a love for the Donzi brand. I personally am attached to Donzi and would absolutely hate to see Donzi die out. Something needs to happen before this becomes reality. A few weeks ago Craig actually told me there is a 43 ZR being rigged with 1350's that's due to be complete in May. Doug Valentine however told me last weekend that this is false and just a rumor to try and hype Donzi fans. What's everyone else think about the future of a once industry leading Donzi?

The people that build the boats are all different, the facility is different, the focus is on high-end boats that no one can afford. Donzi is done. I think Craig being there could have carried something forward but him leaving means no one is left.

They might make it if they do a strong flip in their plans... not building anything less than 35 feet is a mistake. The brand made itself with the smaller boats... not everyone wants a frikkin Baja (especially the new ones they are ugly as hell).

Here is a concept: build a nice high-end smaller to mid range boat. The classics were innovative too and the brand has lost that... the classics had an entirely removable interior! awesome! useful! I can have a boat with a clean interior because it stays inside. Donzi's innovation is gone.

I thought they should have built a 27 ZR comp. They never did and now Outerlimits is basically building a 27ZR comp with their 29.

I thought a 27 ZR Open would be cool... they built the 35 instead... to the tune of 200 grand +++ Meanwhile Sunsation has been building MCOB's in various sizes without problem.

They priced the classic line out of existence. Hornet marine is building and selling a better version of the 16 at half the cost.

The entire ZX line is gone. WTF? that line filled a niche of semi-custom family performance. A boat you can go fast in and actually use the cabin. They sold a ton of ZX's over the years... instead of revamping it they made the ZR line. I can't write off a ZR as a 2nd home because there is no galley. I can't really use a cabin anyway because it's the size of a condom.

There is a market niche that Donzi could fill... it's between a Formula SS / PC and a true go fast. A boat that the average white collar guy wants. But Donzi won't go back into that market... they will continue to try to sell ZR's with 1350's and hope the market doesn't know that there are a half dozen other brands that do it better. The management is going after a grand slam with every sale instead of base hits. 1 Grand Slam a year doesn't get you the pennant, it gets you cut from the team.

How do they expect to build 4 different brands in the same buildings that use to house just one?

I'm a little more optimistic than Vette. Right now we are in a wait and see mode. Remember that those prices are full list price. I'd like to see something cool at the Miami Boat Show but it doesn't look like it will happen. ...

Because they only produce a fraction of what even one brand was producing before. I'm afraid it's not looking good for any of those brands. Liberty is barely serviving. Pro-line wasn't selling, Baja moved facilities which threw thing with them in an uproar, and the drama with fountain made it seem like the last boat they wanted to build was a fountain. With Craig's ties to donzi (having worked for and with aronow) coupled with the fact donzi was the most promotable brand at the time lead Craig and liberty to focus on donzi as the most viable option for income. But the on-going cluster f*ck and lack of money from those in charge has put and will keep putting those companies in a nose dive. They haven't done thing one with Fountain or Pro-line, built a limited amount of donzis and finally released some new Baja models that have gained as much support from the masses as a yugo. Built with left over material and seemingly no passion, coupled with a price tag that's 20k more than its closest competitor (checkmate) I assume Baja is done for as well.

Not looking good at all. Smart move for Craig to move on. Unfortunate for everything associated with liberty.

vette is right in my mine i have a old 27 that i started with and now have a wife and a 7 year old son we made do with that for 6 years. no heat, ac, bathroom, or running water. I didnt want to loose the gofast but needed more room and all that. i found my 33 and it was like heaven. we can stand in the cabin cook and get out the heat or cold we stay on it friday thro sunday every week. wouldnt even think of going to a zr. when 80s r no longer good enough. i will just put in a bigger package. they should bring back the zx. i know alot of people that r looking for that type of boat. to sad

It's really sad if it dies. The name has such a good heritage behind it. Total mismanagement for years, now an investor group that really has no interest in any of the brands. They did fill a gap in the market that is badly needed along with Baja and fountain. Checkmates are alright but they never even had the recognition as Baja and that is exactly what they look like now all the way down to the interior.

Here at the lake older bajas and checkmates are everywhere. Kinda like mustangs and camaros. It only makes sense there next step was or at least used to be a donzi or fountain. Not all of us can afford an outerlimits or cigarette and we could get into a newer fountain or donzi, cheaper. The water patrol use 29' CC donzis and they look Rock solid in our slop. I have spoke with one about them( not by choice) and he said he loves it!

I wish I had the $, or someone with the $ would buy it. Somebody that actually cares about the name brand. Kinda like what skip has done with cigarette.

Stick to the smaller and mid-range boats ( the 27zr was very nice and quick) along with the classics, gotta bring back the zx line only makes sense I have no idea why they quit building them IMO they r a little slower but ride way better and have tons more room. They built a nice CC also ( market is getting saturated with them, being every manufacturer is trying to grab a portion of that market, stick to the smaller ones, with a few very nice bigger ones). The ZR have there place also ( if priced right) they are fast, good looking boats!

Hopefully they don't pull the plug.

Question, does this hurt or help the value of our boats?

The only way that I can see Donzi again being successful is if they are bought by someone who understands the brand, invests money in infrastructure and designs, and can run a successful business.
Basically someone like Skip Braver would need to pop up and buy it, investor groups are the death of nearly any boat company they touch.

I could care less about the value of our boats bc they will only last so long. We are nearing the end of a full restoration/ upgrade on our 43. It's going to be probably the rarest, most custom ZR out there but it won't last forever. Donzi has to live on. Wonder how much it would sell for

Where do you run your 43ZR? Would love to see it when she's done.

Maybe this whole thing will turn out like the Hostess HoHo's, Twinkies and Ding Dongs......The brands have a solid following and history that there are now a couple of solid-ground bakeries looking to buy the brands/recipes/rights to continue on. I love our 28ZX and the other ZX's, love the ZR's lines, and love the Classics. I sell to the Dump Trailer/Body industry and a few of my OEM's I supplied to before the '09 crash went out of business. One of them (plant was idled, never BK'd) was purchased by another OEM that I supply to primarily because it was a great design and had a niche following and they survived the '09 fallout. Dump trailers/bodys and HoHo's and Twinkies are necessities (okay, you can debate the garbage food thing), and Boats are luxuries......but I cant imagine life without a coool boat!

tom

Agreed 100%. Buying Donzi is my lottery dream.

I was told that Craig was let go. Either way he is now in a good home.

Just an interesting little side bit from all this.
Statement first brought in Gene Weeks from... Donzi.
After he left, Josh Stickles joined them originally from... Donzi.
Now Craig Barrie from... Donzi.

Down in Florida on the gulf Coast mostly. Also bigger lakes like Cumberland and hopefully Ozarks and Michigan this summer. Had it on Geist in Indy 1 time but literally tore the lower half of the center outdrive off. Didn't hit bottom but its too shallow of a lake for the boat.

Here are some Picts of the project. Haven't put the newest ones up yet

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=c28b800bc9

I'd also love to buy Donzi and bring them back to life. I really wonder how much it would take as it really can't be worth that much as is. And I think the old well craft facility in Sarasota would be perfect

+1

Sad to hear about Craig Berrie. I still remember him calling me just to introduce himself when he took over the Baja brand. It all sounds like a bad HANGOVER from too much Johnny Walker. :evilb:

I love all powerboats and wish every brand could survive. IMO the people with the money buy a cruiser and a Go Fast. The Go Fast is to do just that, Go Fast and look good and unique while doing it. So why buy a expensive new boat that looks the same as a older design? Yeah all us middle class dream and wish but the fact is money talks, and the people with money buy Skaters, OL, and MTI's! There are still to many good deals on used boat so entry level boats, and mid level are not going to sell. Plus CC are out of control, I would have never thought they would sell so good. I also never thought the 29 OL would sell so good. Its weird how certin things catch on. Like Facebook over Myspace, everyone liked myspace better but went over to FB for no reason. Monster Energy drink, its gross, its unhealthy, does nothing for us, but its sells like crazy! Weird how stuff works.

No offense but the people with enought money to buy a new ZX can also afford a hotel. Same reason Black Thunder is hurting. I personally love to sleep on boats, thats why I bought a cruiser. BUT slept on my GO Fast for years.

I feel Donzi would need a major refresh to make it profitable, and its going to be hard to catch the others.

I don't understand why they dropped the ZX line. I love our ZR but having a livable cabin is nice too which is why we have the formula as well. Being a custom boat manufacturer, they should have been able to hang on to the ZX molds and made them as ppl wanted them. And a 45 ZX with twin big power or triple 700s would be a sweet setup.

Double P, wow just simply WOW! What a killer resto project, I can't wait to see the finished project.

Liberty has a great opportunity with Donzi. They need to listen to their customers, and build the boats their customers want. Center consoles? They have the molds, they have the plant, build em. A few tweaks to their designs to accommodate the hardcore fisherman could be done to bring back the Donzi loyals in the tournament circuit which helps with the marketing. A few tweaks and options to accommodate the bar hopper crowds who IMO would flock to their well built, proven hulls and they could have the best of both worlds.

Performance boats? The ZR hulls are proven, in demand boats. The 27 was never marketed well IMO, and they tried to do to much with to little. An interior redesign is called for, and market it as a reasonably priced entry level performance boat and you have a winner. Open bow? I am mot sold on that design selling much on the East coast, but who knows maybe it would. But I think they should concentrate on what they have now, then see where the market takes them.

ZX boats.. IMO they NEVER should have dropped that line. Those boats sold, and continue to sell. A vast improvement over the Formula PC line, they offer style, comfort and reasonable performance for the HUGE crowd seeking a performance family cruiser. Some minor updating, a few tweaks to the hulls and power train to help the performance a little, and you have another winner.

Classics.. I LOVE the Classics. But, lets be reasonable here. To successfully market these boats, Donzi has to recognize that there are thousands of them out there advertising their brand on a daily basis. And thats good, and bad. The availability of older hulls that can be easily restored or restomodded hurts their sales of new boats at the current new boat pricing. A few MINOR tweaks, adjust the pricing to realistic levels and you have boats that you can sell to the average Joe who grew up fascinated by the brand. Fans have clamored for a larger Classic for decades, give us a reasonably priced 24-26' boat and I think you have another winner.

In other words, Donzi has to return to their roots. They tried the custom megabucks poker runner route, and it is not their market. If they want to continue to address that line they have the ZR Comp. Expand that a bit, offer custom Comp style poker runners, but stop ignoring your bread and butter lines.

Our group is working hard preparing for the upcoming 50th anniversary of Donzi. We are planning several events celebrating the history, the boats, the people and the mystique. I hope we will also be celebrating the reinvention of the brand!

WoW!!! Totally over the top!!!! I can't imagine you putting that boat in Geist (just a little brown). Geist is a pretty area, just not the water.

Okay Poodle, no time like the present, get out yer checkbook and buy Donzi, move it to Florida (where it belongs), and I'll peddle some for ya in my worldly travels.

tom

I 100% agree with the bigger classic too... There are lots of 22 classic owners that would make the jump to a 24-26 classic if they built it reasonably priced and kept the lines classic.

I don't think you guys understand what liberty was doing...they compartmentalised each brand (for better or - more likely - for worse). For liberty it was all about A) streamlining overhead (move all brands to one location B) go with what, in their minds, worked for each brand.

That meant for donzi concentrating on custom builds, bigger boats. For Baja build an "entry level" sport boat under 30'. For Fointain, build boats over 30' with twins and the hard core fishing CC's. and for proline, build and entry (read "cheaper") fishing boat.

Liberty does not give two flying f*cks about the heritage of any of the brands which, lets be honest, Donzi, Baja and Fountain have a long respectable history that could be built on. All liberty cares about is making the money back. Problem is, they - like all big corporations - approached this with out the passion and attention to detail and customer consideration it takes to build these boats. They approached it as "what is the cheapest and easiest way to make money?". Sorry, but that's not going to work, especially in this economy. They were (are, I suppose) looking for a niche to fill from each brand but I think they missed the target. Again, it's a shame all these brands are in seemingly incapable hands.

Don't expect some great hope to magically appear and save donzi or any of the others. I would suspect, in true big corporation form, they'd never sell Donzi unless it was some astronomical over priced deal.

And someone asked what's it do for the brand? It's f*cking horrible for any brand to have the company go under. Nothing positive can come of that. Takes away the brand pride (think of how proud Fountain owners were when reggie was out there winning races and beating records, or baja was representing at every poker run with poker face or fire & ice or another factory rep'd boat or donzi was in virtually any movie that dealt with an offshore boat) and more importantly the support network is gone.

Like I said, it's very sad to see the current state of these once great leaders of the market. I hope something happens to turn it around but I'm not holding my breath.

I understand what they are doing perfectly well. I disagree with what they are doing, and I am concerned that Donzi will not survive it. If they want a custom line, buy OL or Statement.

Sadly they want to much for the classic line for it to be feasible. If it was, I would be a part of it somewhere,somehow.. And with you in sales, wooohoo brother!

I'm all about the help :)

If they are not going to do anything with Donzi then why would they just kill the brand? Why not sell it and the molds while there is some value. With all of the remaining Donzi guys at Statement, maybe, just maybe.....Donzi could be purchased and brought back to Florida. Fountain is the one that is done with Reggie gone and he and his son(s) starting new companies. Donzi has a future. Possibly.

fixx
 

Buy it scott and ill show you how to build the fastest classic's out their with front race bulk heads and the tub tied into the hull and top deck tied into the stringers and with 454R lsx engines and imco scx drives with -3 lowers..:party-smiley-004:

p.s. i want to make a x22 and a x24..

Who do we even contact at Donzi now? I always just went to Chuck or Craig. Haven't heard back from Chuck in awhile, anyone confirm if he is still there or not?

About a month ago he still was.

Well, I find this thread quite funny ....
Donzi isn't going "away",,,, Natural Selection is for Animals ..... I doubt the bank would sell Donzi or Fountain interests anyway ....
They'll be Back, and they know it ...... This economy's not going to lay down forever, so why not own the competition. My thoughts anyway.

Until then "I Got Mine" ..... :)

Missed the point. I don't think Donzi is going away, but I also don't believe a bank or investment group is the best choice for it's ownership...

BTW, when / where we going to see yours again stranger?

Yea, I agree not a good situation right now, and probably did miss the point, just thought I heard a chicken little in there somewhere, and wanted to extend a helping hand ..... Lol... Yea, I really should get out more, post up a few .... This is The Year .... : )

Liberty made the same mistake as the bankrupt companies they bought.

The sad reality is the margin structure they are trying to maintain died. You cannot sell production mass produced performance boats for 200k!!!! There is no debating this topic, the market has spoken and has liquidated all companies that have tried this. The sad reality is they didn't want to cut their upper tier compensation. For all of those that have owned medium to large businesses will know the bulk of your overhead is tied up in upper tier compensation.

The only future in the marine business is custom boat sales paid with cash.

Many people don't want to hear this but if you can't pay cash for a boat (new/used) you simply can't afford it. Now after the great economic crash, all the 100k corporate monkeys got exposed for the fraud that they are buying everything with credit and once there income dipped, the repo man came.

Real Incomes for the bottom 90% of economic slaves are never coming back. The top will continue to accumulate wealth while the bottom continues paying monthly payments on their 37 credit cards they maxed out buying fuel for their 38zx....

I personally enjoy not having to deal with the amount of idiots on the lake every weekend now. Boat traffic is down about 60% from the 2006 peak on one of the busiest fresh water lakes in the US.

im all about paying cash for stuff but my boat and my house are on a loan. we dont have credit cards or car payments so we do ok. but there is people out there that have that mind set that just put every thing on a card and try to find a way to pay for it later. not vary smart if u ask me but there lost will always be some one elces gain. thats how i got my boat for what i did he was about to loose it and offed it before he did for what he owed on it.

Wow tgi, I guess we should all be glad to hear you got yours, and the rest of the minions below your level don't deserve em..

As far as the only future being custom boats paid for with cash, I'm sure a lot of mainstream average boat builders would argue that point with you. I see new boats being financed every day down here. No, not like a few years ago, but there is still financing available..

I can relate to some of what tgi is saying. This piece of schit we have for a president likes taxing the hell out of my income and it is going to be a thinner year for me. I saw it (taxing) coming, I did my part in November to stop it, and I lost. We pay off our credit card every month, own everything except for the two houses, and love our boats. Scott you are right, new boats are being sold and financed every day, I passed 4 truckloads of boats (Hurricanes) heading south bound on I-69 monday this week. But the go-fast market seems to have dropped a couple gears. Would Mercury really come out with a 565 if the mid range market wasnt there?

tom

Wow, some truth here, but a lot of generalizations, too.

Reality, the Credit Card Cowboys always seem to get their's at just about every economic down turn, not just this one.

My wife and I are both examples of those "corporate monkeys" you reference. And DINKs, too. Life has been hairy for us at times, as it is has for anyone that is honest with themselves, over the past few years. We work hard, we save, and we enjoy life.

AND, we contracted for and financed the sport cruiser of our dreams a couple of years back. Because of the downturn, it was within reach as a leftover, so we jumped on it, with no regrets. And we just refinanced it, with closing tomorrow, for 3.9%. I imagine we'll have it paid off in the next 16-24 months.

My point? The extension of credit to the people powers dreams, including awesome on water rides. See you on the lake.

Kevin, the boat and progress look amazing! I'm looking fwd to seeing some more when you post them up... Is she 100% yet??