Confused!!! Need help/advice/opinion on what to do with Speedmaster II's!!!!!!!!
 

First off I will tell you what I have; 1985 Chris Craft Chris-Cat. The boat is powered by twin 502's and has Speedmaster II drives.

Here is my situation...
Somewhere along the way someone swapped the Starboard drive to a left hand rotating drive. So now my boat has 2 left hand rotating drives on it. Drives kind of crazy at speed!!!!

Now here are my options as I see them cheapest/least amount of work to the most expensive/most difficult:

Find a right hand drive and swap it and get a matching right hand prop to what I already have. That has proved almost impossible!

Swap to TRS's, going to need spacers to get the right x-deminsion!?!?!? Got a buddy who has a few sets of trs's that is willing to swap me

Extension/conversion boxes... Does anyone make these for what I have??????

Konrads... Not sure what that will do to my X or what they cost????

Or worst case scenario... Sell my current drives and go to a bravo style drive, sell the tranny's and speedmasters, redo the transom, motor height and everything else... I do know from research that I dont want to move the motors back because it has been known to cause some porposing issues and eratic driving conditions so I would have to run some kind of drive shaft!!!! (does anyone have info on this kind of swap??? I would love to do some more research)

I would really like to just swap the one drive for now so if anyone happens to have a right hand drive or knows where one is that would be great!!!!

But I would also like to here everyone's opinion as to what they think I should ultimatly do and why.... I really want to make sure that if I am going to spend the money it will bring added value to the boat as well!!!

Thanks :ernaehrung004:

find A right hand lower or drive for the 2's I have the tailstocks for the 2's if you need them. Try Mel riggs in wisc.

That would be my first choice!!! Do you have mel's phone number???

I think i have a in good condition #2 RH for ya .
Complette drive .

Riggs Marine in Eldorado,Wisc. 920-872-2728

How much shipped to 67211, business address is that matters, oh and is it a 6" shaft? and what ratio?
Thanks,
Orlando

Tough call on the SSM II's. They're getting very scarce and expensive and they're somewhat fragile. At the same time, a conversion to III's or something like the Konrad is going to be expensive. Most likely you'd never get the $$ back. But if you love the boat and plan to keep it, you really should consider a permanent fix. You can be sure that parts for the II's aren't going to become any more plentiful or any less expensive- maybe now's the time to bite the bullet, instead of getting deeper into a drive that will break again.

So what would be a good permanent fix??? Bravo xr's I here are good.... With a bravo set up I would have to ditch my tranny's, correct??? Thats cool with me (less weight) but then I would have to run some sort of drive shaft i am guessing...
For now my plans are to keep the motors n/a and run them up to some where around 600 hp.

Keep in mind that I am trying to do this as cheaply as possible, so most likely some sort of used set up would be great!

Yes, balance is definitely a consideration. I'm not a huge Bravo fan but with your existing power, they could work quite nicely for you. If you plan on moving upward, I'd look elsewhere. A set of Merc SSM IIIa's would be nice but you're back to a discontinued drive. Much better near-term parts availability though. Depending on your X dimension, the Konrad might be a consideration. The gimbal is identical but the Konrad is slightly shorter than the TRS. The SSM II was a bit longer than the TRS so you might have a problem using the existing cutout. Konrad makes essentially a set-back version with an integral extension box. That could possibly offset the x-dimension issue. If you want to explore the Konrad, PM BIGGUS here on the board- he's a rep.

A konrad install would be the Best option. But thay are not cheap. XR's will hold up to 600HP well and cost much less than the Konrads. By selling the II's and trannies, that would offset the expense quite a bit. Now if you are happy with the reliability of the II's, find a RH drive and call it a day. It will certainly cost a great deal less, especially after you sell the LH drive and prop.



Darrell.

First off I was told that with a tranny set up you loose a lot more hp, do to friction and slip in the trannies, at the prop then say with a bravo style set up... Is this true???

So if I decide to go the way of swapping to a hole different drive set up what would everyone recomend??? Remember I am only looking to run about 600hp...

Also what does the different gear ratios offer you as far as performance and such... I have seen a lot of drives that offer multiple ratios and I was wondering what the different ratios do for you.


I told you I was a little confused, I appreciate all the help from everyone! I am just trying to become better educated.

Thanks!

Sorry ,to get back with you so late.

Well,........the #II i got is also a LH :eek:. Sorry !
I will check with some people for you and get back if i find one !

But i would think that a Bravo conv. is the best for ya.
They make driveshafts and cariers for the Bravo, and yes u would have about 20% more HP at the Prop with out Trannys.

Ratio wise , you need to look at it this way :
1st gear is like 1:33 and 5th gear is like 1:68 compared to a car ( sort of)

Hey just found a RH SSM II for ya .
waiting for my buddy to call me back with price ! :rolleyes:

Sweet, let me know!
Thanks

If the II's have been good for ya, and you don't beat the hell out of them, I'd stick with them for now. Especially if Daredevil can get you that drive. You can sell the LH or keep as a spare and be way ahead $$$ wise. All of the other options wll always be there for ya if ever needed.




Darrell.

Yeah I am really easy on my stuff, don't have the deep pockets to be able to do what a lot of others can... I try do all my work my self or with the help of other guys that I know, they tend to know a lot more then me when it comes to a lot of the stuff not engine related....

So I figure I will try to find a good right hand SSM II and dream about the other stuff for now!!!

Now the hard part of finding one, and for a fair price!!! Everone thinks there ish is made of gold when it comes to these drives... Now I just have to cross my fingers and see what Daredevil can do for me:D

Still waiting on my buddy to call me back with the price !!!!!

I should know by Friday at the latest. Stay tuned .:ernaehrung004:

Once you go Konrad you'll never go back to Black.

350hrs and counting, oil changes and u-joints only.

I just called and priced them for grinns $23,500 for the pair... Yikes I payed just a bit more then that for the boat...

I think I will save my money for some used XR's, then I can loose some weight and gane some hp by ditching the trannys.

It's going to cost you that much if not more to convert to XRs and they won't last too long on a heavy boat like yours. Nobody likes hearing this but it's the truth. Cry now or cry more later.

Best money you could spend on drives is for the Konrads. How much do most guys spend on drive repairs every season, $5k-$10k? What do you plan on spending on used (and unknown condition) XRs, transom units, steering, etc. $10k? Are you going to put drive shafts in, move the motors back, etc.? If you have headers for TRS' and you move the motors then you'll need new headers, $10k. Plugging the transom and re-cutting for XRs'? If you have a shop do this it's another $10k depending on where you live.

The conversion is going to cost you $20k minimum by the time you're done plus you'll have the repair cost of XR's hanging over your head.

I see a nice pair of Konrads HERE for $15K complete!

Sounds like a better deal, you could bolt these on yourself in a weekend no problem.

Redoing the transom is no problem for me and one of my best friends, he owns a body/fiberglass repair shop, to do by our selves.

I would have to run drive shafts for both motors but I dont mind that if I can get back 20% more hp out of the deal and ditch the tranny's. I don't want to move the motors back because I have found through research that it upsets the weight balance and causes some planeing and porposing issues. Now I might have to move them down in the hull to line up...
OR PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION FOR ME :ernaehrung004: can i run the drive shaft at an angle just like in a car???

As for the weight of the boat, Approx 9000lbs. One of the guys I run around with has A 38' Cig Top Gun with 725hp blower motors, should weigh as much or more, and has never had a problem, other then when he hit a tree lol, with his XR's..

The boat actually just has merc mani's with rubber tubes all the way back from the elbow to the tip, which I would like to replace at some point anyway.

Now you mentioned steering... I already have a fully hydraulic steering setup on the boat so I am guessing I would just need to modify that to work with the xr's, is that correct???

Oh and please don't take this as I am downing the quality or anything about the Konrads, in fact I have hurd nothing but good things about them. I am just a boater-on-a-buget!!! I try to get the most bang for every buck I spend!!!

You absolutely, positively will not lose anything even remotely close to 120 horsepower (20%) on a boat with 72C transmissions. Maybe 20-25 horse. The Bravo isn't going to live long at 600 HP. There's a reason Merc doesn't sell them with engines nearly that big.

With all the money you're going to spend trying to rig up driveline Bravos (input shafts, drive shafts, rear mounts, u-joint drive plate, etc) you'll be well on your way to a decent set of drives- and nobody's giving away XR's.

And no, you can't angle the shaft.

The power loss is just what I was told.... If it is only 20-30hp then no its not really worth it I will agree!

For now I am just going to find a right hand rotate SSM II and be nice to them for a couple years... maybe by then I can afford the Konrads.

Lots of oil changes and be very careful about your exits and entries on jumps. The lowers are less than robust.

Just trying to put you on the right track, no offence here trust me.

BTW I have a set of XRs for sale but they wont last long on a cat that heavy.

I have only ran the boat full out a couple times, had to beat my boys $100k Top Gun the first weekend out with my $30k Kitty, he was pissed!
Anyway it torque steers so dam bad that it is almost unplesent and a bit scary to drive it much over crusing speed, especially for any extended period! So for now I just cruise it and occasionaly i will run it hard!
Also the lake I am on the majority of the time does not get really ruff, Its a small local lake so I am not to worried for now about exits and entries.

But thanks for the advice I will keep that in mind!

Maybe you could send your LH drive somewhere and have it changed to RH? I believe it is just the gears in the lower unit that dictate the direction of drive rotation. You might try Galen at Speedmasters. He was a huge help with my SSM 3 drives a few years ago. He seems to keep a pretty good inventory of the older stuff.

Here is a link to his site.
http://www.speedmasters-inc.com/

Called him already no luck! You are correct about the gears but I would rather get another drive that way I have a spare.

Hey,............good news.

I found 2 , SSM #II RH good condition now .:rolleyes:

Bad news is , i am still waiting on them to tell me how much they whant.:eek:
They dont go on OSO ,so i am in the middle of this.
I got you coverd buddy,just hang in there.:evilb:

Scott.
Or call me 941 592 5815.

You are right ,its only the GEARSET in the lower..... 3K if you can find one :grinser010:

I found a gear set for 2k, but like I said if the price is right I just assume have a hole drive that way I have a spare incase, god forbid, i break one:rolleyes:

Thought I'd jump in here,

Last spring, I sold a pair of Konrad drives to a customer with the exact same package, 31 Chris Cat/SSMII's, Here's a bit of info we gathered for the conversion.

The SSMII is 1" deeper than the TRS

The standard length Konrad 540 is 1.7" shorter than the TRS, we offer spacers from .5-3"

We fitted the drives with 2" spacers, this put the propshaft .7" higher than the SSMII, this is no problem as the old SSMII's were mounted rather deep as the prop selections back then are a long way from what we have to choose from today.

As mentioned by the very satisfied :drink:customers above, if you want to swap out to a drive system that is going to handle the power with ease and not have to re-invent the wheel during a re rig, give me a call sometime, the conversion can be done for relatively short $$

Kurt
715-410-0735

if you decide to goto the trs , I have 2 inch spacer kits for them . Tom

Chris, if I remember right the RH TRS drive (or part thereof) is the weaker of the two (RH vs LH) Is the SSMII weaker still or is it equivalent in strength to the TRS? Call me sentimental but I've always wanted a pair of SSMII's off the back of my boat. I know the X-dimension issue, but I love the look and the historical value of the old girls. BTW I baby my drives like crazy. Thanks - Jeff

I've never been inside of one- I've always avoided them as they just didn't like big power.

If you want the look, get a set of SSM III's. As for historical value- there's not much. The drive is rare because they sold few- the demand just wasn't there. They weren't any faster than the TRS in virtually all examples but they handled less power.

In the long run, they'll eat you out of house and home- unless youare very gentle. Forget the power upgrade you were thinking about, plus if you break them, you may miss a big chunk of your boating season looking for parts. All those costs add up. It would be a shame to pour thousands into your existing setup to then have to do a drive conversion.

just for grinn's how much are the spacers????

Why not just go to trs? The higher propshaft height should increase mph, and TRS are alot more common.

So much for my delusions of putting "cool" SSMIIs on the back of the old Scarab

The only time you can see them is on the trailer. My own definition of a "cool" outdrive is one that is tough to break, easy to maintain and affordable to repair. Kinda' rules out the entire Mercruiser product line ;)

Chris, you're always one with the true chit, man - Jeff