Trs To Bravo
 

I recently got a 81 38 scarab with staggered 454's dirt cheap.
It has not drives and 1 engine and tranny is gone. I can get 2 454s for a bravo for $4000 would it be better to go with bravos or go with konrads or trs. Also does anybody know where I can get some test results for each of these set ups.

Welcome to the board, and congrats on the staggered 38! Post some pics!

I'm sure you will get a ton of opinions on this, but I would say keep the trannys and go with Konrads. Depending on power, you might be able to get away with bravos, but with a big heavy boat with big power, you might eat bravos up quickly. Are you sure the boat originally came with TRS?? What kind of tranny do you have left, is it a B&W?

How do I post pics?
What do you think the konrads would cost. Where would I find a set of them?

Konrads are about 14K each and I think that is just for the drives themselves. If you are starting from scratch and have the money, look at Arneson's. They are around $16K each for everything. If you go Bravo's you'll have to fill in your transom and re-cut...any way you look at it, your going to be into this project for a good chunk of change.

Depending on if you still have the TRS transom assemblies or not, your most cost-efficient option would probably be to source the parts and stick with the TRS drives.

Konrads are around $12k each side complete with transom units and ready to bolt on. It gets cheaper if you have the TRS transom units on the boat.

Bravo is a big job and requires moving the motors back or running a tailstock and driveshaft.

Arneson is a great drive too but will require re-rigging too and let's not dicuss the cost of props. It's probably a whole lot more drive than whatr you would need.

I have rolls of woven and resin is about 50 bucks a gallon time is nothing. It wouldnt be the first time i re done a rotton transom. I fix boats for a living. Has it been done? Does anyone know what gears and props to start (bravo)

Is it a 377? I used to have one of those. Cool boats.

Gut the bildge and find a fiberglass guy to redo your transom.

Cost a couple thousand. Get some gimbles that are in good shape from somebody here on the board. Pick up a couple late model bravo's

You'll be finished with your project for less money that the cost of 1 Konrad. Boat will be a little lighter too.

Keep us posted.

Your thinking like im thinking like me. Got any pics I could see of it? Even an XR Bravo used aint to bad cost.

Start at 1:5. If they are 454's, probably around a 23P - 25P 3 blade.

If this is an old conventional, sure it is, you will get more speed out of the 3 blades until you get it set up and then call BBlades and have a let of bravos made with teh BAJA cup.

How much HP on the 454's?

That boat is gonna want at least 500+- a side.

I had some 420's in mine and it would just creep over 70. If I had new props it would have picked up 1 or 2 mph

I think there are around 330 each with stock exhaust so theres room for improvement there. Thanks man I think I am going to try that.

Keep ya posted. Still open for any other suggestion looking for bravo and transom plates down the Michigan area.

330's start with a 19P 3 blade. That is a pretty heavy boat.

That would be the cheapest way to get that boat in the water.

Make sure you post some pics for us.

Start a thread in the scarab section.

kinda new to this thread thing the wife put some pics on some keywest 2007 and the keyword is 81 38 scarab
Hit me back if you get em

Stick with the TRS drives. I'm assuming that the gimbles are still there since one trans is still there? I think the TRS is stronger than the Bravo. You can still find pairs of TRS for 10K and a trans is cheap. My 2ct's.

Second that. You can find them on ebay all the time as well as parts. There's always trannys on there too. Here's a nice pair on there now. Could probably be picked up for 3K, maybe less.
I got a nice one on there once for $650.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercr...item439d14a080

I corrected my poor spelling (assuming) but I had a set on a 30' Scarab behind a pair of 600+ 468's and I pounded them all day long. Took it easy out of the hole but after that they took everything I threw at them. Right up until they where stolen off the back of the boat.

Stay with the TRS. They will live forever behind 330's. Good drives up to about 500HP.

Bolt some drives on, trannies are a dime a dozen, and go boating. I wouldnt re-invent the wheel glassing the transom, measuring, cutting, etc, then mock up shift cable brackets, etc etc, just to go to a less reliable drive. Sure parts are available all day long for bravos, but TRS stuff is still very plentiful. And in a heavy boat like you have, the TRS will hold up better. Bill from ATECO engines has run 600+HP thru his TRS in his 377 scarab for many years.

Lot less money, lot less work, lot less headaches rigging it.

Do you need the plug in tranny or the driveline? Is the tailstock carrier still in the boat? Those 2 pieces are not easy to find, but if you are running 330's, those guys are right. Probably cheaper to just leave it the way it is.

Another option, stellings makes a stand off box that accepts a bravo transom assembly and bolts right on the trs bolt pattern on your transom, I happen to have parted out a early 80's 38 staggered scarab and have a lot of parts,drive line covers,engine mounts,ect.
also have used bravos in excellent shape. 1.50 ratio

I don't think Stelling has had those for about 10 years or so.

The driveshaft engine is still there.
Where are you located sac for the boxes. I still think bravo is a better way to go.

I am in Folsom CA. Stellings started making that box in 2000 because I suggested it to Jack when I was rigging a cat for him at that time and I had a trs transom assembly that he borrowed to make it.
I will call there tomorrow and see if they will make some if they don't have any in stock

Talked to Randy at Stellings today, he sold his last trs/bravo boxes to Victory Marine (713)910-2000. I called them and Scott said they have 4 left for $2100.00 ea.I have 1.50 bravo's and transom assemblies.

I agree with these guys, the TRS will be a better drive in the long run.

I converted a TRS TG to Bravo a few years back using the Stellings box's. I got them from Randy but the castings I had where made after Jack passed. They needed a bit of massaging before they would work. After two seasons of eating up Bravos we changed it back to TRS. I think that boat now has Konrads on it.

I have a few TRS drives sitting around and I know guys are picking them up all over.

sac, where are you? You must know Garfinkle (Mr Big) and the whole crew?

Don't know him, been out of the loop for years,have not raced in years,(late 90's)I live in the Sacramento area (Folsom)

There is no faith in bravos here A

We are rerigging our boat, DAZZLEMENT, to 850 hp and Arneson ASD8 drives, so we'll have the staggard TRS parts available for sale very soon, if you're interested. They have worked very well for us for many years, but we just got a deal we couldn't refuse on the Arnesons and I'm building bigger engines for the boat, so I decided to upgrade the drives. Call me at the shop and we'll work a good deal for you. Bill.

I have these ones for sale for trs staggered set up . call 239-437-9480 jay.

I dont think anyone is knocking the bravo drives, but in this case, it just appears cost wise, reliability, and labor, to stick with TRS.

The only way I would replace a TRS boat with a different drive, is if one was planning to add big power, and then i would convert to Konrad. TRS parts are still around. You can still get gearsets from merc, and although some parts are discontinued, there is plentiful stuff on the boat forums, ebay, craigslist, etc. Hell, there are still new TRS drives in crates around.

If you had to pay 2100 each for stelling boxes, it would be cheaper to replace the transom and move the engines back.

Just a thought.

For the record, I had good luck with all my TRS boats, guy I sold a boat to had a problem, but it was because he didn't change a leaky drive seal.

Moral of the story, TRS is a good drive if you maintain them properly.

It would be hard not to go to bravo's if you are going to stick with the 454's and pump them up a little. You will get better performance out of the boat. It sounds like the transom needs to be replaced anyway.

I am one of the few that is doing everything wrong and had 100+ hours of good luck.

My Heavy 40 Excalibur is running stellings boxes and IMCO (Bravo) drives with direct bolt drive shafts and 700HP 572's. I have no issues, especially when I run away from my friends 40with similar horsepower on Konrads. Just saying...

It all depends on whether or not you have a boat that needs to have all the transom and stringers replaced, or you have a boat that will run with a few missing TRS pieces. If I had it to do over again ( and the Konrads were available) I would have stuck with the TRS Rigging and run Konrads. Of course I would have had to have more power too.

Boatmedic:

I have a pair of complete Bravo drives and transom assemblies. These are both late 1990's vintage, and in excellent used condition. I'd be willing to sell them very reasonably if you're interested.

I sent you a private message, if you're interested, please get back to me.

Harry

I have a trs with a borg warner 72c 1:1 will give you a GREAT deal if your int?

If he is running 330's on that heavy hull he'll be at like 50mph tops -- bravos will last
if he gets the itch and starts bumping the hp, I'd rather have TRS -- handle hp better and are nicer shifting. Then he the hp itch gets him into 700 then he can always change out to Konrads with no mods
I say TRS all the way! There is a reason everyone is trying to upgrade a bravo ;-)

The boats home now. It is acually a 1977. It has 1 engine in it and its the forward 1 with the driveshaft. people want to much money for there antiuqe trs's around here. I did get 1 eng runnig and it shifts good but. I cant believe people are knocking bravos so bad. I do need some pics of a original cockpit and the famous miami vice arch
THANKS GUYS

How much and I am in ontario canda near detroit

Boatmedic;

I have 2 stand rotation and one counter rotation TRS recently rebuilt, with gimbals. I'm in Kingsville -- can't be too far from you -- I'll make you a great deal -- may even deliver.

Dave

519-919-0878

How much is a great deal?

call me on my cell 519-919-0878


dave

trs
 

i have every thing you need call me 252-646-2751 im parting a boat out i have lots more to

trs
 

the one thing I don't think anybody mentioned is the x dimension , I have a 87 33 foot sutphen that I converted from trs to bravo I glassed the transom and raised the x , prop technology has come a long way since your boat was built, so you may want to look into raised bravos on boxes like i did.