Speedmaster 5s
 

I posted this question in the Powerquest forum, and it was suggested that this might be a better place to discuss...

I'm looking at a 1995 Avenger (non-stepped) with 600sc motors and speedmaster 5 drives.

I know the speedmasters are great drives, but I think the 5s are shorties and usually used in cats? The dealer says they operate way different and it's more of a process to plain off. I don't have any experience with these drives, but I'm looking for a fast 38' pleasure boat for Lake MI, and it doesn't seem like these would be the right setup for me? Maybe have them swap them out for 3a drives instead?

Thanks!

Would you rather take longer to get up or blow bravos all the time???????????????????? Theyre are plenty of v bottom pleasure boats with 4/5's running around. Drives all the way in, tabs all the way down, bring the RPM's way up, most likely about 4000-4500 and let it start to catch. Once you feel its actually going to get up, pull the tabs all the way up and then adjust from there. Once you get used to it, its nothing.....

Will these drives take longer to plain off? It also seems like shorties like this will come out of the water quicker when I'm battling Lake MI? Unless PQ mounts the motors lower in the hull somehow to compensate?

Sorry for the basic questions, I have no experience with anything besides Alpha and Bravo drives.

yes they take longer to get going but who cares???????? Yes they are higher but because of the big skeg and overall size of the drive a speedmaster boat feels a lot more hooked than a bravo boat.

For simple pleasure boating, I wouldn't want to be fighting to get up all of the time, but I also don't know how big of a difference it is. If I swapped the 5s with something longer like 3As, I'm assuming it would be more comprable to the Bravos (with better power rating and efficiency)?

its a difference of about 4-5 seconds prolly and its not bad at all. also, your not FIGHTING to get up cause it always gets up but it just takes a couple seconds longer....going to 3A's would be like taking your boat back 15 years and also lower your resale

Is there another SSM drive that I should be looking for if I don't want the shorter 5s (6s)? Will the 5s catch air quicker or would they be mounted lower on the hull? The boat is a great deal with the power and the drives, I just want it to be right for me and my family.

Thanks a ton for the help!

they dont catch air any quicker than a bravo boat and if they do your talking half seconds, nothing you or me would really notice. i cant really understand why your so against the surfacing drives. they are a much superior set-up and everyone on here would take that set-up in a second over an old school set up with the drives buried and scrubbing speed. you do realize by putting the drives deeper you will prolly srub about 10 mph of your speed?????

Sounds like you have made up your mind that you dont want a boat with SSM's. I have spent some time looking at that machine years ago. I would just leave it the way it is and know you have a strong drive setup.

600sc with ssm V's =bulletproof. I boat on lake michigan, and have ssm IV's on my 38 fountain. The IV is the same as a V, but a smaller propshaft. Planing can be tricky, but like anything, its all in the props. With 3 blades, its sloooow to plane. With 5 blades, it planes like a bravo boat.

Running in big water, with a 38' boat, and some decent power in it, you will want the ssm drives. Its way more durable, and fun to drive. Airing out a 38' PQ with bravo's and 600sc's will break bravo's at least once a season. The SSM V was rated to 750HP for warranty, but have handled much more power than that. They take the same props as a #6 drive.

If you were looking at boating on a inland lake, where the water is calm, than maybe a bravo boat. But lake michigan, you want more drive than motor.

fyi, with 5 blades, my boat will plane off by bringing the throttles to 2800 rpm, and it will lay over quick. With the 3 blades, its 4000RPM, and wait quite a while.

if your dead set on not buying a speedmaster boat (which, it seems like no matter what we tell you, your not going to change your mind) then i would buy this nortech

http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o38933-en.html


Its in your price range, newer than the PQ, and you cannot even compare the build quality of a PQ to a nortech. They arent even in the same league.

I'm not dead set against the Speedmasters at all, I just read that the 5s are shorties and the dealer really steered me away from the boat for pleasure purposes because of this. I'm not a poker run junkie, just want to have some speed in big water. If this is a solid setup for this, I'm not at all opposed.

This is exactly what it is, also for pleasure boating. Have no idea why a dealer would say things like that. If a fast plane out is what you want, have a set of good 5 or 6 blade props dialed in. Heck you can even install spacers. I'd take 5's any day over B1's. You also have a great platform for upping the power.

Big water + big boat + big power + B1 drives = busted B1, aggravation, angry wife, sleepless nights, less time on the water, expensive and slow.

My 2c's.

I would forget what the dealer says. If its at the dealer I think it is, I don't think that they have been around or are too familiar with speedmaster setups. For some reason, people have thought over the years, that a offshore boat should plane off like a 21ft bayliner with a hydrofoil. So they get into a true offshore boat, rigged with SSM drives, whether they be a #3, #4,#5, or #6, and think something is wrong with it, because it blows out the props while getting on plane. That is the nature of the BEAST.

If going fast in big water tickles your fancy, without a doubt, go for the #5 boat. The bigger drives will DOMINATE over that same boat with bravos. The big SSM cleaver props do very well in big water. With those 600SC engines, you will not hurt those #5 drives.

There are spacers available for the #5 drives if needed, to drop them down a bit. Replacing the #5 with a 3A, would drop the propshaft down 6". More than likely, depending on where the propshafts are now, would kill the boats performance, and probably handle like crap.

The PQ is big and heavy. A good friend of mine has a 42ft fountain, with stock merc 525EFI motors. The boat eats bravo XR's way too often. Same story on my other friends 38 Sonic with 575's. Bravo Buster. Lake Michigan will eat bravos all day in a big boat with anything more than 450-500HP, unless you run it like a schoolgirl. Go take a look at the actual propshaft, and dimensions of a ssm V. then go look at a bravo drive. You will see. Sure, you can get the bravo boat, break a few drives, upgrade to some Bmax or similiar bravo replacements, and have lots of money in parts and downtime. Or, just change the fluid and go boating with the ssm V's.

That's very helpful, thanks again! It sounds like this is a good route for me to consider as opposed to what I was told.

Just so I understand, if I would end up wanting to drop the propshaft by a couple of inches to reduce the slip while digging out, spacers are an option? How costly is that? It sounds like I wouldn't need to do that anyway with a good 5 blade prop.

Drive the boat first. One person's opinion of poor planing might be different than yours. Tabs down, drives down, and hit it. Do not be afraid of hurting the drives. Most bravo, trs, and alpha owners take it very easy getting on plane, because its hard on the drives. With the ssm V's, don't be afraid to give it the beans while planing. For SSM boats, 4000-5000RPM while getting on plane is not uncommon. Just feather the throttles, and dont let it overrev.

Yes, 5 blades will help. Yes, spacers are avail in 1" increments. I would not worry about any of that just yet. Run the boat, get a WOT RPM and MPH reading. Calculate the prop slip. If its really high, then yes, a different prop, spacer, might be needed. If its good, than well, its good.

If you wan't skiboat type holeshots, than this might not be the boat for you. If you like not breaking drives, swinging big props, shooting a rooster tail, being able to turn those 600SC's into 750HP mills, (which is fairly easy btw), and still not break $hit, go for it. :drink:

Bam Marine should have them. Give them a call or mail.

But yes, Mild Thunder has a good point. Drive it before you do anything.

Not to highjack but can a Bravo xr drive be replaced easily with the SSM 5??
May be a trade could do the trick??
I might be interested in trading drives....I want the rooster tail.
Something to think about..

mild thunder, you find the right props for your boat???? werent you messing with them in the spring??

verbi69, the only thing you can easily do is the bravo to arneson conversion that rik at arneson sells. i think outerlimits had a pair a couple weeks ago for a good deal. look in the classifieds. swapping to 5's would require rerigging the entire boat...

The cutout is different and you will need to move the engines forward because of the gearboxes. An Arneson conversion would prolly be alot easier.

Thanks for the info guys......I'm not into re-rigging the whole boat.
Arneson drives would be nice, rooster tail and 4-6 mph more.

If not 10.

they sold already.....

Now that would be awesome!!

Figured that as I couldn't find them.

It sounds like the OP is starting to see the light (and realize the dealer is an idiot), if not... Here's another person to tell you SSM V drives are a no brainer in a heavier boat with blower engines over the B1's! B1's wont last with a heavy boat and blower engines, unless you baby the hell out of it.

Other than the slower planing issue (which 5 blade props make a significant difference in this regard), the only other issue I can see with the SSM V over the B1 is the cost and availability of parts should you need to repair them. On the plus side, they should be far more reliable than B1's.

BTW, those 600SC engines are pretty stout and can be bumped up if you want a little more power, but they tend to eat bravos (if mated to them) and are pretty thirsty for gas!

GL with the boat hunt.

Outerlimits listed them (customer upgraded to 6's), I think they lasted less than a day before being sold.

Guys, I know the dealer. His name is Jeff Gibbs and he used to run GRB/GRC at LOTO. He took over his father's dealership here in Central, IL. Some of you may know Jeff or his brother Joe who now operates Formula Boats Of The Midwest at LOTO. Jeff knows his offshore boats, drives, etc. My guess is Jeff was just letting this guy know that the SSM V's are a different animal than a Bravo drive and just setting expectations. I can assure you he knows this setup is superior to a Bravo setup.

Idk about the right props, but do now have some 17x29 four blades, and 16.5x28 five blades. 5 blades plane great, and cruise great, but too much stern lift

According to Rik, that is the ballpark figure when switching from Bravos.

Jeff for sure knew what he was talking about, and did talk about the benefits of the SSM drives, but he also didn't seem to think this was a good setup for a guy that wants to run down the lake with him family. That's the difference in opinions that I'm learning here.

Trust me, short of 6's you want those 5's on the boat over Bravo's. It might take an adjustment period but once you get used to them you will love them. I would be careful of dropping them down with spacers as you will scrub significant speed. You might get some of it back by cutting down the skegs but then you are into a big mess IMO.

" The IV is the same as a V, but a smaller propshaft. "

The above statement from Mild Thunder is not correct. The #4 drive has a spiral cut, polygon shaft, upper gear. All the internal components in a #5 are different from a #4. The upper gear set (in most) of the #5's, is a near net forged, straight cut splined gear. The propshafts in #5's are 1.75" in diameter as some of the "big shaft" #4's were. The bearings are different as well as the 2 vertical shafts. None of the components from a #4 will interchange into a #5 and vice-versa. The only thing that the #4 and the #5 share is that they are the same dimension from the input shaft to the propshaft. I'm supplying internal components for both the #4 and the #5 drives. Don't get me wrong, the #4 drive is a great drive, but it is not a #5. The #5, in my opinion, is a far superior drive to the #4 and the Bravo isn't even in the game.

What I meant more or less is a #4 and #5 are the same dimesions propshaft height wise.

Sorry Mild Thunder, I did not want to be an a-- hole, just set the record straight
Bottom line, if you choose to buy a boat with either #4 or #5 drives, new internal components, gears and shafts are still available. Don't be afraid they both are great drives and as other people have stated you can always use up to 3" of spacers to lower the propshaft. In my experience with a 38 Cigarette w/#5's, 5bbl. props worked much better in getting the boat on plane than 4bbl. props did. If I can be of any help, in any way, with your decision to go with the #5's dont hesitate to contact me.

Gary Kollofski
612-247-7081

No worries Gary! If anyone knows these SSM drives its YOU!!

Since we are on the subject, what can be done to beef up a #4 drive? Gears? Install bigger propshaft? Etc. :drink:

I have new straight cut, near net forged, polygoned upper gears for the #4. The gear is the same as the #5, only the "shank" that the polygon shaft fits into is sized for the #4 polygon shaft and the bearings for a #4. It is a definite upgrade from the stock #4 upper gear. I only have them in a 1.31:1 ratio though. Combined with a 1.125:1 lower gear set, the overall drive ratio will be 1.48:1. I can supply new "big shaft" 1.75" dia. propshafts for the #4 drive also. I would not recommend changing any of your internal pieces for these, unless it is time for a complete rebuild of your drives.
Let me know.

Gary

I think I just started saving my money for Arnesons!!