Never Change your Drive Lube and your Driver will last for EVER!!!!
 

Ok, long story here.....

Back in 1957 my dad read in the paper that Macy department store in NY city would never change the oil in there delivery trucks but would only change the filter and add a oil to top off the amount lost within the filter every 5k and they where getting over 250k on the truck engines. So my dad not a car guy buys a new 1959 Sports Fury and never changed the oil in it and sold the car when the trans went out at almost 200k. He also a had a small flleet of dry cleaning trucks that he did the same on and they lasted too, so Fast forward and I buy and sell shop equipment used in areospace and high tech companies, and what I learned was that they will not always change out a lot of the oils and chemicals used in machines and manufacturing processes and I believe it is called titration. So lets say the drive holds 3 qaurts and is changed at 30 hours for ****s and giggles, the oil in the drive at the first ten hours is 30% dirty, 20 hours 60% and at 30 hours it would be 90% dirty. So the first 15 hours the oil is twice good as the dirty oil the last 15 hours? We as boaters should change out our drive lube every 5 hours!!! All we do is drain enough oil out untill the fill bottle justs runs out, put the plug back in and and top off the lube bottle. So if we change out 1/2 a quart ever 5 hours we would be in better shape then running very used, broke down and dirty oil for the last ten hour to save money!!

let us know how that works...

I know this works as my dad proved it. Also a know of chemicals used to electropolish in tanks that hold 1,000 gallons, companies do not throw 1,000 gallons away after it gets dirty and stops working like it did when it was new, they will remove 100 gallons of old fluid and repalce with new fluid which keeps the fluid working at it's best. But they don't wait until the fluid is completely dirty to do it, but just after the fluid shows signs of getting dirty. But my point is, that the last 10 hours we are using dirty broke down oil which is much worst then the 10 hour fluid?? With additves being used up and oil that break down, put im fresh all the time should help, plus lets say water or a problem shows up in each mini change out it could help to know every 5 hours verses 30 to 50 hour???

Could work on a 4 cylinder with an Alpha. What power & drive do you have??

Ayuh,...... Good luck with that idea,.....


Outdrives don't have oil filters,....

'n the oil don't wear out, it gathers contaminants,...

I could be wrong but I believe the oil breaks down due to the shearing action of the gears.

The problem is that oil filters do not really clean the oil, they are there to prevent large pieces of metal destroying the engine, My point is that we leave the oil in the drive and the last half of the time it is in the drive, the oil become more saturated with metal, the most wear is in the last half of the oil's life, Additives break down as does the oil, by replacing them a small intervals the over all condition of the lube is at a higher level of condition then the normal way of running dirty oil the last half of it/s life. Also if the heavy metals are settling at the bottom of the drive between trips, if you remove a half quart of oil from the bottom, you just removed the worst oil from the drive and repace it with fresh oil that will work its way to the bottom. It should only take ten minutes to do this so seems easy enough.

Your example comparing hundreds of gallons of something to 2 quarts (Alpha) is not valid.

Big Diesel trucks can go so many miles between oil changes because of there oil capacity and the stresses and controlled environment they work in.

Do what you want to do. People win in Vegas all the time.

Are you doing this or just a theory??

bad idea - as oil heats up and cools down it forms condensation also where I live you can leave an outdrive with fresh gear oil - never used still brand new and check it a year later to find it has a tablespoon of water that formed internally because outside temps drastically changing forming condensation.

Also oil from heating up especially at very high temps plus the combustion process forms oxidation & acids and oxidation & acids can form corrosion another reason to change your oil and why all oils have corrosion inhibitors. Hot rod, classic car, motorcycle and marine oils mostly all have an extra dose of corrosion inhibitors added into the blend for a reason.

Also the combustion process itself forms water / condensation. That's proven as you can watch the water expel from the tail pipes of cars everyday especially right after taking off from a red light.

Most base stocks of the oil itself do not wear out, its the additives and the contamination factor that's the reason for changing the oil. Gear oils are a bit different as they can experience the shearing effects from the gears rotations & pressures.

Also changing your oils can be used for inspection to avoid bigger problems down the road. ie: dilution of - water, fuel, gelling, anti freeze, wear metals, burnt, along with coloring of the oil itself - black, metallic, white, brown, chocolate, mayo and so on.

I change my gear lube at the beginning of every season so any moisture in it from sitting over the winter is talkin care of. It gets a full drain drives and bottle every 15 hours 20 max.

That is VERY true with EP solution (ep 2500) that we use. The only time when it got changed out is when that room started on fire, other then that we just maintain the correct level

You are right, thing happen in the lube from water, shear loads and metal. It seems a lot of us leave the oil in the drive from 25 to 50 hours. Would you not agree that the oil is at its worst in the last 1/3 of its life? Yes, so we don't want to throw good oil out with bad right?? You can all agree that if you change your oil in the drive every 5 hours it is much better then 25 or 50 hours? But we do it that way right? So if you keep your drive oil at its best, your drive will last much longer. But changing all the oil every 5 hours would be wasteful, so by removing some slightly used oil and replacing with fresh oil does what, improves the quality of the existing oil in the drive by 17%. Sure at the end of the season drain all the oil and start fresh would be a safe bet. To change out 1/2 of a quart is cheep and easy because no pump is needed. Look at the cost of our out drives, why not try something that the oil companies would never tell you to do it, they can't sell you more oil. They do this on big turbine units which take a butt load of oil and they don't have to shut them down as this can be done while still running.

There may be some merit behind the theory, but I don't know if I want to do that just about every weekend.

Nice to see this concept being discussed here.
Something I've been interested in for a while and think it could be adapted in any number of ways to suit a particular situation.

I would be changing the oil in your drives at the end of every season with fresh fluids. if you don't change it until spring, you may be leaving condensation in your drive to work at pitting your gears all winter, same goes for your motor oil.

You could always drain 1 quart and add 1 quart ever 10 hours which would still be much better then using oil with 20 to 30 hours of use. I have been doing this with all my diesel trucks. Every 2,000 miles I suck out 2 quarts and add 2 quarts. Diesel oil starts clean and slowly becomes jet black from a build up of carbon black which is super fine black carbon. The carbon black is about 5 microns in size and engine oil filters allow about 50 microns to pass through, so the longer you run the engine oil, the blacker and blacker it will get from the carbon black build up. So by doing the fast oil drain and fill the carbon black never builds up to a high level. There is a a device called a bypass oil filter which is a 3 micron filter that takes a small amount of oil and filters it through the 3 micron filter and it will come out as clean as new. But the flow is so slow because of the fine filter you could not use the 3 micron by itself as the flow rate is less then the needs of the filter. If you put one on a diesel engine the oil will remain just like new!!! So the problem with out drives is there is no filtering of the oil, the longer you run it the dirtier the oil becomes and the more wear on the gears and bearings. The reason I share this with you is not because I'm cheap but more worried about doing the best for the drive.

If you have a stock or mild small block with an Alpha don't worry about it.

If you have a Bravo with a stock or mild 502 or bigger, well, then, you should be worried.

CIG92 is correct in post 16. Plus you want all the corrosion inhibitors that are added in the oils intact & new while the boat is stored for x amount of time. Used oil has some if not a lot of the oil additives depleted plus the oil is oxidized.

All the marine OEM's recommend stored boats for periods of time have the oil's and filters changed to new for the lay up

I guess, my opening title was a little off by saying never change the drive oil, but never change it the OLD WAY. It dosen't matter how high a HP motor is behind it. It has to do with keeping the oil at it's peak, since we can't filter the oil but just wait for it to get nasty the last half of it's life and that nasty oil is protecting how much $$$$ in the drive?? So new oil in the top working its way to the bottom where some of the worst oil in the bottom is removed, pretty simple! I know a few old machinist guys that I have bought their old metal lathes that have closed non filtered gear boxes on them much like a out drive. They did the same thing I'm telling you guys and I open all the covers on the machines I buy and do an inspection on the gears and I'm always amazed at the condtion of the gear boxes, they still look like brand new, with no metal oil colored staining on the inside, gears and bearing look new and these machine are about 30 to 50 years old. All because they never let the oil get to the dirty stage.

The cost of changing the gear oil is a helluva lot less expensive than a blown drive.

Realistically $20.00 worth of gear-lube and an hour of ones time to completely drain and refill the entire unit is an insignificant expense. I'll use that deplete & replace method on equipment that doesn't have varying loads of torque applied to it, much like machine shop equipment as mentioned earlier.

Still missing my point, the reason we change out the oil in the drive is because it is dirty, which is bad , so we change all the oil, the main point is that doing it the way I've decribed, the oil never gets dirty, its always about 75% of new and not 90% dirty like the old way. So every minute your drive is being used, would you like the 75% clean oil in it or do you like the 90% dirty oil running in the drive?? And by the way lathes and machine tools in general have big torque loads, the loads vary all the time, thats why there is load meters on them! The main reason for this is not to save money on lube or the time it takes to do a full change out of the lube, but to protect the drive by never letting the oil get dirty!! Also removing a 1/2 a quart or so every 5 to 10 hours is faster because we can quickly drain and top off the bottle, no need to pump the whole drive back full of oil.

$20 and 25 minutes versus $10 and 8-10 minutes. Not seeing the big deal. Now if it was a complete ***** several gallons maybe.

It is not the cost of the lube or saving a few bucks. it's about preventing the oil from getting dirty. The whole reason for changing out the lube every 25 to 50 hours is because it is filled with metal and broke down oil and the additives are used up. Why don't we prevent all of these things from happening by never running that dirty oil in the drive??

What I was saying is just change all of it every 8 hours then

How do you get an outdrive to last long enough for it's first oil change? :readinghelp: :pray:

Now thats one way to save doing an oil change LOL

I say punch a pinhole in the case and hook up an IV bag of gear lube and just do a continuous drip of fresh lube! "Dixie, I need an IV - D5W with Ringer's Lactate and Merc Hi-Perf, stat!"

Oh Cool I'm goona try this on my #5s with my 1100s in front of them!!! when the drives FU*K OFF on me what's your address? you're getting the bill!!!

Then it looks like running the oil at its worst level of condition for the last 1/3 of the drive is the winner!! I stand corrected...I'm glad I'm an old dog LOL peace

Seriously you're worrying about saving $10 and 10 minutes. I get what your saying but why not just change both qts every 5-10 hours then?

I not worrying about saving oil, not at all, just getting rid of the worst oil in the drive which is at the bottom of the drive and anything heavy in the hot oil ( i.e. metal particles) will settle between uses, drain the worst oil out and replace with new oil at the top. Sure changing out all the oil every 5 to 10 hours is better then 30 to 50 hours, but that be over kill, but then again it might be a lot cheaper in the long run? It just sucks that the drives don't have any filtering on them and that is the main reason to make up for the lack of oil quality during length of a service intervals.

OK let's really put this all in perspective--- Here's the question that pertains to almost every engine out there--

Would you get on an airplane and hurl yourself thru the atmosphere in that little tube of toothpaste at 40,000 feet around 600 mph with 2 to 4 engines that NEVER had their oil replaced but only had there fluids added to??

only you can answer that question

3pointstar

I do not agree. A filter would be nice of course, for removing damaging metal particles and such,but that's not going to keep the oil like new in this particular use. Not by any stretch.

Are you really that cheap that you won't spend 30 bucks to change your drive lube??

Not every 5-10 hours!! I change mine once a season. 40-50 hours. Engine oil gets changed 2-3 times per season.

Do what zgoo is talking about on geared escalator drives and these drives last 20 plus years.

525s XRs. Change mine every 20 hours with the engine oil.

I get the OP point, just not for me.

I reread this whole thread and it does make sense. It's also real easy to just drain until the reservoir is empty and then fill the reservoir. No messy around with an oil pump. So would it be better to do this every 5 hours then to change all of the oil at the end of the season at 45 hours......? :confused: