Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Lost the port motor in the 01 312, 502 mag mpi 130 hrs, full of oil no overheating, Running up the lake at 4600 rpms, Just got done looking over the guages everthing is fine all of a sudden the port motor sounds like somebody took a jackhammer to it and it shuts down. Open the engine compartment and find no oil in the bilge or parts.

Limp back to the marina on one engine pull the boat, And take it to the nearest formula dealer (Lakeport Landing NH) We have 2 years remaining on the Formula Guard Warranty, So wanted to do everthing that there procdures call for, Lakeport pulls the spark plugs on the motor and finds the #5 plug is smashed, so we know we have an issue with that cylinder.

They pull the motor and send it off to there local machine shop that does all there engine work for tear down and further inspection to see what the damage is to start the repair process and submit the claim to formula guard, The machine shop had found that the exhaust valve had broke and took out the piston as it was flying around in the cyldner.

I get a call from the service writer at lakeport and he informs me that the claim was rejected, And the reason was because marine Inovations DOES NOT cover broken valves, :mad: :mad: They cover Bent Valves, Tuliped Valves, Burnt Valves, Valve Springs, Retainers and guides, Only the head had broken off and the stem and springs and keepers were all still intact on the head so they rejected the claim, I gave them a call and the guy i spoke to was name (Rodney) who i got absolutly no where with to argue my case, I told him the valve had to of bent before it broke and he kept telling me they don't cover broken valves.


So now i am out $8,000.00 on a motor with 130hrs driven under normal conditions for a part that was faulty that i am stuck paying for, Everthing else in the motor is covered except broken valves, How stupid is that??? And whats the sense of having a warranty for when you need it you can't use it??? Jeff

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

That blows big time. Time to get a lawyer...

If the battle totally goes downhill, I'd call 1800RUNSNEW in Holliston, MA for a new base 502 and put your accessories on it. I belive it's basically the same base motor that Merc buys. Another option is to get that cylinder bored and get 1 new piston and the heads rebuilt. That should save some $$.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

First off, sorry for your misfortune. :(

Second, thier claim denial seems pretty flimsy. The same malfunctions the "Bend" valves also "Break" valves. Seems pretty loophole-ish to me.

Time for a contract lawyer.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

My thoughts are the same, At this point i was considering having my corporate lawyer take a look at this because everybody i talk to to that have mechanical knowledge all say the same thing that its bull****!! Jeff

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

I've never saw a piece of metal break without bending at least a little somewhat 1st, even if on the microscopic level. So your's bent, and unfortunately broke before inspection. Since they cover bent valves, you should be covered. See if you can get an expert metallurgist to verify this for you, then attach that statement to a letter from your attorney. I wouldn't try go without an attorney at this point since they are going to drag this out most likely, so you might as well get the process started.

BTW - it stinks there aren't any good Formula dealers in New England. I think Lake Port's work stinks. They replaced a bilge pump in my friend's boat - they didn't mount it properly, and used a tie wrap on the water hose instead of a hose clamp :rolleyes: .

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Jaybird, You are correct about lake port, They had repaired a intake gasket on the starbord motor and it look like they just dump the oil on my rear seat and just wiprd it of and left all the residue on the white vinyl.

I spoke to my lawyer 2 min ago and low and behold he is familiar with engines from he college days and says we have a valid arguement, We need firs the inspection to find WHY the valve broke and find that cause if a guide or a retainer seized and did not allow the valve to return which inturn was broken off by the piston then he feels it should be covered, If we find that the valve was faulty and does 130hrs is normal for valves to fail then merc will have to be responsible for it so i need to talk to Petersons machine shop to have them take alook at it alittle closer Jeff

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Is that the same Innovation that's in Sarasota??????

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

I believe it's the warranty company that services the Formula Guard coverage, not the engine builders.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

no 'cuda, it's the name of the 3rd party warranty company.

Passport
Formula Guard
Z-Care
ect.

Marine innovations underwrites all of them. It's basically an ins company...you know what that means to the consumer in terms of getting screwed!

Formula needs to get hip to the fact that they are no doubt feeding Marine Innovations a good sum of money a year, using it as a sales tool (quoting in the propaganda how much it's "worth") and yet too many claims are denied, and otherwise happy owners are getting pissed...and pissed at Formula for talking this bullsh!t coverage up so much.

312...I'd give Formula a call also, see if they'll go to bat for you.

It seems too often this "coverage" that is priced into this EXPENSIVE boat isn't worth the paper it's written on! :mad:

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

I had the EXACT same thing (down to the same cylinder) happen in my 98 312 502mags this spring. Too bad mine was out of warranty though. Good Luck getting it repaired.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Arrogant too.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Oh ya - absolutely get a lawyer on it! Its normal business with insurance / extened warrantee companies. They won't pay with out a fight.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Rippem, I had already talked to formula about this situation and they elected not to participate, Also merc does not want to participate also, as the motor with merc has been out of warranty since 2003, So as of right now nobody wants to step up but i think that will change soon.

I am picking up my boat and my "BOX" of parts the motor is apart and we need to inspect the head that has the valve stem still intact to see why the valve was either held open to long or the valve itself was defective and then we will figure out who to go after, Thanks for all the responses and i will post the findings, Jeff

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Just adding my 2 cents, why not copy this forum link and some documents of your calls with the warranty company to Scott Porter, so he sees first hand how customers of his products are treated, especially when it is so black and white, I mean 130 hours and $8,000 for a motor? You deserve better treatment.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Same experience here with Passport. 2002 with 110 hrs, 3 yrs left on warranty. Pinon bolt on lower backs out and blows drive up. Valid drive failure in service shop's opinion and should be covered. Then we find out "fasteners" are not covered :mad: :mad:
Merc won't have anything to do with it and Formula "does not want to tell Passport how to administer their warranty program"... :mad:

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

total BS!

"Formula Guard adds X amount of value" to your purchase.











right.... :rolleyes:

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Boy, it sure sounds like these thrid party warranty companies will figure a way not to pay any claim. Does not sound like they are really worth the paper that they are written on.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

These guys at Marine Inovation are something else, :mad: :mad: And i am not to please with formula at this point either, :mad: :mad:, They did not want to do anything about it, I had bought the boat on having the piece of mind with the waranty in case there was engine or drive failures would cover any problem and both just seam to want to dust it under the carpet, The kicker is i am going to be in the market next year on a 35' boat and i may have to consider somethig other then a formula.


Its a big selling point on there part having this waranty on there boats and then nobody stands behind it when there is a "Premature" Failure, I am curious to the reasons why merc stopped Mfg the 502's? Could be that they use junk valves in there motors and were having problems so they changed to the 496's to make it go away, This whole thing sucks and i may have to reconsider even baoting with the price of gas it just adds insult to injury!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

That sucks.

Like my friend George says: "Insurance, you're covered for everything except for what happens"......:blaster:

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

[QUOTE=formuladude312] I am curious to the reasons why merc stopped Mfg the 502's? Could be that they use junk valves in there motors and were having problems so they changed to the 496's to make it go away,QUOTE]


Its not Merc, ,,, it was GM,,,Just like the 5.7 went away.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

The dealer needs to step up. They can help with both Formula,Merc and Marine Innovations(MI). M. I. can be jerks to deal with but i have always been able in the end to take care of our customers. With persistency and knowledge from your dealer they will have a change of heart.The bad news for the dealer is they (MI) don't pay retail for parts. This does discourage some dealers from cotinuing to persue the claim.
They don't respond well at all to the lawyer deal. Once the lawyer word has been tossed or threatened you will be done until court time.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

That's right on the money. I worked for a marine serivce shop in So Cal for a few years and we dealt with Marine Innovations pretty often and we always got them to cover the problem we just had to fight for the customer. The only big downside to their coverage is that they will only cover somehting once so if the same part fails again down the road you have to pay for it the second time.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Recovering, That would probably have worked, But the dealer that i took the boat to is not the one i bought the boat from, They were the closest factory dealer so they were not as accomadating to really go to bat for me, All there interest was to have the local machine rebuild the motor to which i know they got a cut on, But it was my expense and $8,000.00 for a rebuild is not what i would consider a real bargain.

And there is no guarantee it won't happen again!! Jeff

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

8 grand for a rebuild, are they plating it with gold? They are high, as in on drugs. Like I said before, you can get a brand new 502 long block for between 5-6 grand from 800runsnew andt put your accessories on.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Jaybird, You are correct, I have been on there site (1800runsnew) and have seen there list pricing and can probably do a little better with them on it, I will go that route if i have to, but right now, I don't feel i should pay anything, Until all bases have been covered i won't let it go!!!!! Jeff

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Not giving you the best service possible becuase you didn't buy the boat from them is krap, I would never do buissnes with them again. I don't understand that mentality at all, why do they care where you bought it? As far as not wanting to deal with it becuase marine inovations won't pay list on parts is also a load of krap, they should be wiling to earn you as a customer by taking care of you. That's how a good buissnes is run.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

312 at some point did you tell these people you were never buying another boat, if not they should be bustin' their a$$ to earn your service business as everyone knows customer service is what keeps ya comin' back. If they had taken care of now chances are your next purchase would be from them!They are very short sighted and don't deserve your business now or the next time.
We sell Formula boats and happen to be in a tourist area where people live and buy from several different dealers, so I have the philosophy of making them want to be our customer. They may buy once somewhere else but the next time they want to purchase from us.
You may want to rethink your thread name, cause M.I. may not be fully to blame this time.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Recovering, It was the total opposite, The dealer should have been a little more accomadating, I had bought a 272 from them and i am going to be in the mkt for a 353 next year and i told them that, They have had some turnover in help recently, Most notables in sales and parts and things have changed there but I was not treatd as i would treat my customers.

I do beleive Lakeport could have presented the failure a little better to M.I. to get it covered but i spoke with M.I. myself and they were dead set on not covering it.


I think there is a lot of blame to pass on here, Merc was no better in stepping up to the plate in this case, They also did not want anything to do with it, Just sucks to have to sick an attorney on people to get things done!!! Jeff

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Unfortunately I don't think you will be able to get someone to tell you why the Valve broke ..... I had a bent Valve on a 454 ...It was a Jasper motor out of warranty by about 4 months ....my shop repaired the motor and 10 minutes into the first run the same valve bent again ....we contacted Jasper and they stepped up .... sent me a new motor ...said to send the broke motor back and if the could find something wrong that they would pay the labor for the swap .. regardless they paid for the motor ...They said they could not find anything wrong with the motor ...said they suspected over reving ....which I know did not happen .. At least they stepped up with the motor ....

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

I had a customer send two old Criss motors to jasper several years ago. one was counter rotator they installed the wrong cam in it. took a considerable amount of time to locate the problem. i followed each step they wanted to try and finally convinced them what the problem was. i spent out of pocket several thousand dollars, sent the motor to them, they sent the motor back and would not not cover any of my expenses. i lost about 3500.00 fooling with them on this so there is NO way i would recommend jasper to anyone. they really suck at covering mistakes.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

they gave me a motor 4 months out of warranty and also I was not the original owner ...However .. I have heard of several problems with motors ... that they would fix ...which means pulling motors ect ....I would proob not use them either ...

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Offthefront, At this point i don't care why it broke alls i know 130 hrs there should not be broken valves unless the valves are bad, Merc should be stepping up here IMHO, I am hearing from a "Reliable" Engine builder that they use cheaper valves and unless all are replaced even on the good motor it could happen again, We had a guy at the marina with a 35 sonic with 575 sci's, He broke a valve, the motor was ot of warranty and merc sent along a new long block, Alls i want is somebody to step up here weather it be merc or MI thats what warrantys are about they cover everthing else with the motor but the broken valves

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

FD .... I'm on your side ...someone needs to step up .... Have you contacted the dealer that sold you the boat ? ... I'm thinkin him ...Formula or Marine innovations needs to wake up ... Aslo I would go back to Formula ...... If they still wont step up .... we could probably get 50 or so Formula owners to give em a call ....and ask if thats the way we ALL will be treated ....

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Offthefront, I am hopeful that there is a happy ending to all this, I agree with you, We may have to use the power of the formula board to resolve this so nobody else has to go thru this ridiculos process, We all are buying the boats from formula on the assumption of having the warraty in place if something goes wrong you have some protection, Jeff

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Patience guys. There are things afoot with big time forces at work. Chill a little and we will see what transpires. I don't ask you to trust me,I ask you to wait. Robert

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Robert, I will show some patience, Jeff

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

312
i spoke with daryl @ formula on monday a.m. early he said they had gotten on friday like magic said give a little time and don't use that "L" word with merc or MI when that happens they will be done and off to court you will go. and i don't of any lawyer repairing a motor. only padding his pocket book.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

It's alot of the reason I bought (a new) Formula myself. The 4 additional years of protection against a major failure. I'm not going to nickel and dime them (MI), but a major mechanical failure due to no fault of my own...I was counting on being cared for.
Deductable, and "once only covered" be damned...it still meant alot to me.

The powers that be need to understand how much it means for the coverage to be real,
and without hassle.

These stories worry me, make me second guess the reasoning of "Formula Guard" meaning so much in my purchase decision, and leave me feeling naked when I thought I was in warm swaddling clothes.

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

We will see how this plays out. In the meantime I must disagree about MI not paying retail. I filed a claim yesterday for a trim sender on a 4 year old 330SS. One hour later they approved $454. I found a Merc claim a week ago for the exact same job on a 271,$261. I like to deal with MI. They pay me full labor rate,retail on parts,and $95 per claim as a "Service Assist". Sure,they try to back out here and there,but overall it is good for the dealer and the customer in most cases. Let's wait and see how this plays out.and if they don't step up I will be the first one to take them to task. Patience

Re: Marine Inovation Sucks
 

Recovering And Magicfloat, The "L" word has not been used by me to either merc or MI, I own my own company and am well rehearsed with dealing with lawyers and contracts, I am willing to wait and see how this plays out.

Lawyers are the last resort, At this point the season is gone for me here in Maine, but i dont want this dragged out over months either, So far all the responses i have had from the partys involved have been negative and that is why i am bitter at this point.

I will sit back and see how this all shakes out, Like i said earlier, Warrantys are whats making the sales for formula, but if these warranty companys are not paying claims, then Formula needs to align themselves with somebody else, Jeff