More speed please
 

OIK I am sure this has been beaten to death but here goes. Can you all compile a list of mods that will will increase speed. please start with least expensive to most expensive. And how much of a difference they will make. keep in mind I have an 85 272 with small blocks and alphas.

I am even lookin for small things like what to get rid of to loose weight, or waxing the bottom. stuff like that. I alreday plan on getting counter rotating drive and nose cones, if those should come later please let me know.

Educate me.
thanks guys.

Re: More speed please
 

Unless you put big power into the 272 I believe you won`t see much, I think the counter rotating will help a little but getting to 70 is gunna cost ya :eek: Just stay stock your wallet will thank you :D

Just ask Mopower :cool:

Re: More speed please
 

I was tryin to hold off on power but if thats truly what it takes then thats where i will go. I have a package that i can buy that will put both plants at approx 400 ponies, I wanted to wait until the end of the season for that.

Re: More speed please
 

I had a 272(89) with small blocks and alpha drives before and what a mistake that was. Put big blocks in that put out around 425 hp a piece and quess what..... The alpha drives needless to say gernaided badly so if you think you are going to put big power in front of a alpha,think again and the only real thing to do then is install bravo's and that costs $$$$ Just my 2cents worth :eek:

Re: More speed please
 

For some goofy A$$ reason that is beyond me , it takes as much (or almost) power to move a 272 as it does a 292 or 311 :confused: :confused:
I have an 89 272 that had 330/Bravos and got 67. Switched to 540s dynoed at 647 hp. We did fatten the jets and back off the timing just a bit to 638 hp to be safe but with two of these I can barely break the 80 mark. Got some more tuning to do this season and some other props. Now , I'm not alone on this either. I know somoeone else who did the same thing to his '89 272 and he too has this brick wall at 80. So I know it's not just me :rolleyes:

Re: More speed please
 

Not sure that Nose cones will help you out. I forget the speed that the Alpha's start to loose it. Nose cones will cause you to loose speed if you are not maxing out your current lower units.

Jon

Re: More speed please
 

Decent exhaust and prop work are usually a good place to begin.

Re: More speed please
 

I would be happy getting to 70 for now. I know that will get old though. props and exhaust sound good. The problem is exhaust is really expensive for the amount of gain. I would probably only get exhaust if I could find some used units. they are hard to come by for sbc. definately worth lookin into thanks Fred.

Re: More speed please
 

I agree that kind of horse power will hammer alphas. I think and have been told by several boat mechanics that 400 is the max you want to go with on alphas. They assured me that as long as you ease out of the hole they will be fine. I don't ski behind the thing anyways so hole shot isn't important.

So is what you are saying that more power is the only way to go any faster? I thought reducing drag was the key to speed on a boat?

is there any advantage to the reduced weight in the small blocks? It would seem that small blocks with 330 ponies would go faster than a big block boat with 330's?

Re: More speed please
 

That's a toss up. BBC at 330 have a lot more torque than an SBC and torque is what turns the prop.
You usually need a really fast boat to begin with to see any gain with a nose cone. I've tried it with 50 and 60 mph boats and got nothing in return except a little better handling. No more speed.

Re: More speed please
 

thanks for the nose cone tip. torque is better than hp for turning props, thanks for that too. all good stuff.

Re: More speed please
 

If you want to run with the big boys those alpha's will let you down mark my word.Back when merc had those 320 fuel injected engines for a short period of time......Those even gernaded alpha's .Hell the 330's stock even broke alph's. :eek: :eek:

Re: More speed please
 

in other words leave er alone huh?

Re: More speed please
 

That's safe :cool:
But on the other hand a friend of mine had w 20' bowrider with a 406 SBC that dynoed 470 hp and ran that for 3 seasons with no problem. Replaced the 350 mag and sold it. The next owner ran all last season with no probs. Know another fellow with a 1987 30' Webbcraft with 468" BBs and Alphas. The only year it was offered. He's broke just about everything but the drives :rolleyes: How you operate the boat goes a long way to determine the life of the drives.

Re: More speed please
 

You could leave the gps on when towing on the freeway......big numbers...no engine mods..

Re: More speed please
 

My old 1985 272 with 260's got up to 62 on radar with big air cleaners and stainless props at 960 ft in fresh water. With the proper set of labbed props you could get to 65-66 with a light load. The stock speedometer was about 6 mph high.

Re: More speed please
 

I like the GPS left on on the highway idea, ha! My old 272 only went 58 on GPS. It was bone stock though little air cleaners and cleaver style props. I am at about 900 ft where I am at on a lake so if thats the results you got then hopefully I will see that with this boat. I haven't had the GPS with me when I have been out yet.

Re: More speed please
 

I think I was using Turbo 3 blades. A set of Mirage 3 blades should work. As I remember it would plane off on one motor!

Re: More speed please
 

What props? My buddys 88 311 went 80 (average 77-78) on gps with ZZ502 crate engines with aluminum heads and 525 cams,and 850 holleys,and dart intakes.I am pretty sure he had the 25P 3 blades with trs drives,We could NEVER seem to get the boat any faster no matter what was done,but a true 78-80 in a 311 is pretty good.

Re: More speed please
 

I have an 89 272SR1 with 454Mags 350HP stock that I whippled and now runs 93+ on GPS. I have never dynoed the motors but I don't think I have much more than Mopower maybe 700 max so I suspect he has some more potential with a little tweaking. The other things that help are IMCO shorties and labbed props.

Like the other I think you will need to replace your drives if you want to add enough power to make a difference.

Ian

Re: More speed please
 

[QUOTE=CayFomula]I have an 89 272SR1 with 454Mags 350HP stock that I whippled and now runs 93+ on GPS./QUOTE]

93 GPS????!!!!!!!

No offense, but this will sound offensive, that seems a bit unbelievable. We've all been around Formulas for years and those kinds of speeds for older, straight hulled, heavy Birds,,,,,
well,,,, I'd have to see that to buy into it.

Anyway, not really trying to start an arguement, but............... :rolleyes:

Re: More speed please
 

[QUOTE=ThirdBird]I have to agree,were the motors stock THEN adding ONLY whipples? or were the engines built up first THEN adding whipples? 93 is fast for an older Formula,hell,93 is good in a newer one too!!

Re: More speed please
 

Yup!!

Re: More speed please
 

If you are every in Cayman I will happily prove it to you. Ask HadrcoreAO what he thinks since he and I have ran a few times.

Anyway on the motors, they were stock when I initially installed the intercooled Whipples and IMCO 2" shorties. it ran about 84-85 on GPS. I then rebuilt the motors, added Dart Pro1 heads and a custom grind cam and increased the boost to 9# and saw very little difference until I removed the silent thunder exhaust at which point it ran 92 right away. It accelerates very strong, I can roll into a marked 1/4 mile at 20mph and hit 90 at the finishline.

If you would like to calculate it I am turning 5800rpm with 30" pitch labbed Bravos on 1.5 ratio XR drives and I consistently get 14% slip.

Re: More speed please
 

Actually if you go to www.mdr.ky/2004/ and click on the video gallery then on the video named "sofast" you can see some clips of my boat in running in the local poker run known as the Million Dollar Run.

Re: More speed please
 

Well now it makes more sense that the engines are more than stock 454 with blowers.
cool vid.

Re: More speed please
 

You're best advised NOT to take Ian (CayFormula) up on his invitation because he WILL prove it to you.
What he's not telling you is, you need BIG kahunnas to ride in that thing at 93 (93.5 to be precise - on his Dash mounted GPS and verified by a Garmin handheld).
What he is also not telling is that we've been chasing a fuel system "ghost" for the past several months that was causing his fuel pressure to drop at WOT at high RPM's. With that sorted I figure he's got something more in the bag.
BTW: The Dart Pro -1s are CNC 335s and the camshaft specs are pretty large (sorry Ian!).
I'm convinced that this boat can do more (poss. 95 +) with a bigger prop, as is.
AND he did all the mods himself and this thing has been running reliably for at least the last three years. He even runs it across to one of our sister Islands (a 90 mile jaunt through deep ocean) at least once a year!
If you doubt how this thing runs ask Gary Ballough (I suspect you might know him) he had Ian breathing down his neck in a triple 2.5 Drag powered 30 Spectre the MDR Poker Run year before last.
AND he kicked Andreas Ugland's (remember him?) a$$ in the calmer water in a SeaTek powered Buzzi race hull!
How's that for an old home built Formula 272.
BTW: he beat me up a couple of times too, but I'm gonna get him back one of these days!

Re: More speed please
 

When Hardcore A/O gets the bugs worked out there is nothing I can do with this hull that will allow me to even come close! I was lucky enough to catch him without the supercharger. He is running a 26' American Offshore with a Progcharged 509 with some really good heads and a radical cam. While accelerating he is hitting the rev limiter at 6200 trimmed in all the way at somewhere around 104mph.

Re: More speed please
 

Hey, if I could get there, I'd love to have that proven to me. If its true, that's the only 272 in the world moving that fast.

Re: More speed please
 

Must be the Island air. Or all the hard thought and work that went into it. Just bite the bullet and buy a ticket and we'll prove it. Bring your own GPS if you wish. Besides, there's plenty more to do down here than race boats...
BTW: Our Million Dollar Poker Run is on the 17th of April.

Re: More speed please
 

That video is bad ass right on for breakin the "old boat" barriers too.

Re: More speed please
 

That is good,my point was that it seemed like a 272 with stock 454 with whipples,with that setup there is no way it would run that mph,Now with extremely modded engines AND blowers then ok,I would have to say that if it is a 93 MPH 272 it definently takes balls to ride in it,I have another friend with a 22 ft formula running 72 and it is a retarded ride on Lake Erie chop!!

Re: More speed please
 

I agree with Trout Downstream...fast river

Re: More speed please
 

Shorties , I would say definitely helped in my mind. 7 mph by removing the Silent Thunder WOW that's incredible. I did find out this winter i was never trimmed a high as I thought. I changed my tab indicator cables 2 years ago and they read about 2 numbers off as compared to before. # 5 used to start + trim now it's not till #7. This means when I was running #6 last year I was barely 0 trim much less any + trim. :(

Re: More speed please
 

Hi Mopower,

Did you remove the silent thunder box after your engine upgrades? I'm thinking that sounds like a really huge gain for a stock engine. With all your upgrades intact though, the reduced back pressure probably made it come alive. :)

Garrett

Re: More speed please
 

Mopower, I think you have some more mph hiding in there you just need to flesh them out. Interestingly my 93+ runs are with neutral trim, two people and a full tank of fuel. BTW I have never run race fuel in this boat, strictly 92 octane.

The shorties definitely helped, saw a 4mph increase but then I went with XR uppers which due to the straight cut gears that knocks off about 2-3mph so the net is only about a 1mph increase.

Anyway I am happy to continue the discussion but I am concerned that we have sort of hijacked Flatout's thread, sorry about that Flatout.[IMG]

Re: More speed please
 

Cool pics! Who built your radar tower? Looks good. What's the tube diameter? Is it pretty stable?

Thanks!
Garrett

Re: More speed please
 

The radar arch was on it when I bought it so not sure who built it but I would guess the tubing is about 1 1/4" or so. It is pretty stable.

Re: More speed please
 

Any vids with sound?

Re: More speed please
 

Unfortunately none with sound, next time I take it out for a hard run I will carry the video (maybe if I record the GPS they will believe me :D ).