Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

I'm looking pretty serious at a 38' Lightning. I'm also wondering about Formula's. My guess on a fair comparison of true hull length, interior room, would be the 38 to a 353.

Budget will allow spending 90-125k. So I've been looking at 1999-2001's. 500efi's would be ideal. I believe both would be good solid boats and hulls. After 5 other varieties, this boat may be my long time keeper. Any thoughts w/o knocking the other guy? Any boats avail that are not in the usual listings? Thnks......Dave

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

Dave,

You are right on comparing the 38 Fountain to the 353 Formula.

The Fountain will be faster then the Formula with the same power due to the weight difference and design of the hull. Remember, the Formula is a gentleman's powerboat, the Fountain will be more of a hotrod.

The fit and finish of the Formula will be a little higher quality than the Fountain. Cabin room will be comparable with a little more head room in the Formula. Both are well built and your decision will come down to personal preference in my opinion. Cost...they will also be comparable in the 353 vs. the 38.

Good luck!

Dave

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

In my second Formula (312 and 382) and have to agree with axapowell. Buddy had a older 38 Fountain so I've been in those too. Not sure of the Fountain but you certainly can get into a Formula for that price range.....maybe even into the 382 for the upper end of that range. There was an add for a nice looking (in pictures) 1998 382 here on OSO for $105K that would be a sweet ride. The 382 is HUGE compared to the 353 if cabin space is your goal.

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

Here's the ad....anyone know anything about this boat???

http://www.offshoreonly.com/esvon/page-7718.html

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

Mine is also for sale and is in your price range. Very clean. Call me if you are interested.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/esvon/page-13353.html

Thanks
Don

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

I'll agree with all of above except fit and finish. They are both production boats and equal in my opinion.

Consider how you fit in the cockpit. I think bigger guys have a harder squeeze in a Fountain. Fountain also have a low profile to the water. Some like a deep freeboard which Formula has. Cabin in Fountain is going to be lower. Both are excellent boats and stable long term companies.

I had a 35 for 8yrs, original owner I purchased from bought it back :eek: and I have an 05 42 which I am very happy with.

Have fun shopping!!

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

Oh yeah, if you get the Fountain, keep your boxing gloves on when you log on here. Everyone likes to jab at the Leader, #1, fastest in the Universe, most speed records belong to Reggie :evilb: :drink:

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

Performance wise a Fountain will smoke a Forumla. Fit and finish is about the same. Fountain has very good gel work, contruction tech is very high and hull sides and extremly solid.
Good climb on both boats and see which one turns you on the most.

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

I beg to differ on the quality of Fountain being equal to Formula.....not that Fountian is bad, just not equal...decide for yourself. I can tell you that Formula factory customer service IS second to NONE! Even when buying 5-10 year old used boats.

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

How about re-sale? Formula's seem to hold their value better as well!

Dave

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

I'd think so too! But fountain are not difficult to sell!

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

I would rather have Ducks Formula than the one T500 posted. Much better shape and cooler, more rare graphics imo.
the one first posted has been for sale forever.


Walt

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

I don't know about that. In reality year for year, power for power, condition being equal...in the 35 and 38
they are neck and neck.

The differentiation in value (when there is one) I think lies more in

the additional niceties included with the Formula product + they typically have more convenience options on any given example.

99% of the time the support after sale is unequaled, even to the 2nd or 3rd owner. Fountain has often struggled with taking care of issues for the first owner. I'm thinking Fountain dealers eat way too much $ for the factory making things right when there are issues. Does this make the customer happy, sure, if the problem is solved, but it doesn't make for the strongest network. You don't see Formula dealers coming and going like you do with Fountain.

typically the Formula demographic is a little older, often reflected in how the boat was cared for and or run.

...and the used market is a little slimmer for the Formula, making it possible to fetch more of your money 'cause there isn't as many for sale. If somebody likes your boat when they view it, it isn't as likely they will hmm and haw because they think they may be missing one that turns 'em on more around the corner.

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

Thanks guys, our last boat was a 34' PQ w/ 525sc's. Lot's of freeboard and room, except in engine compartment.
A few things on my must have list is step hull, adequate room in engine compartment, hydr steering, and lots of others features that are standard on Formula.
I've got to climb on a few 353's, maybe a 382 & I'll have a lot better idea about things.

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

BL6 - At one time we were looking at Fountain and Formula... For three years in a row at the local winter boat show the wife and I climbed into a 29 Fountain and a 292 Formula. Each of those years we left the show knowing the Formula was for us. Not sure how to explain it, but it had more room and more of a "quality" feel. It just felt right. We are now proud owners of a 292 Fastech. So if you haven't already, climb into some boats, or better yet, test drive... :drink:

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

I've had two Formulas, a Baja, and now a Fountain. The second FORMULA ROTTED OUT THE TRANSOM TWICE. They were nice boats though. The 33 Baja, for sale, has an oustanding rough water ride, is built very well, and beats the pants off 353's here in our area in the rough stuff with the same power. The 353 is faster in calm water due to the step hull, but only has about a 32.5-33' running surface due to the notched transom and integrated swim platform. The Baja is a full 33 feet. The 42 Fountain beats them both!

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

Dave I sent a PM

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

I just sold a super clean 2004 353 with 525's and Stelling boxes. I also spent 3 months courting a 2007 38 Fountain. The fit and finish from 15 feet away is the same. My 2004 had way better paint, and showed no wear, even after three seasons use.

My local Fountain store had 07's coming in on trade already (why sell such a fine boat that soon?). Paint falling off the side of the boat at the water line, questionable long term build quality. My local Fountain seller said that the clear is thin, and that is why the paint wwas peeling. Older Fountains have a tendancy of needing floors or fuel tanks. Maybe that is an unjust statement, but it has happened several times in my neck of the woods. I have seen it first hand.

The '07 Fountains fly, but why are some of the finishing touches passed over by Fountain? The carpets in these '07 Fountains did not even snap in. At 100, the carpet wrapped up onto the back of your legs. lift storage lids, and un finished product when digging in.

The Formula that I had, while slower, was a finished product down to the darkest corner of the bilge. My boat also came with a 5 year warrantee, which the Fountain did not. Last but not least, all the "new" upgrades that Fountain releases, obsolete's their prior boat, and the price tanks.

2006 was a rough racing year for fountain, so I would expect a bunch of changes, and big price drops to follow. Reggie just hired the same guy that built the Donzi ZR Comp to help win races again. The ZR Comp is a very compatitive boat. This gentelman will bring the trophies back for Fountain.

In my neck of the woods, I see 10, 15, and 20 year old Formulas regularly. The old boats are spotless. Museum quality in some cases. I have never seen a 10 year old Fountain that compares, let alone older units.

Last but not least, no matter which Fountain, or Formula that WE buy, we will NEVER own a CAT Killer!!!!!

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

Beak 42 is correct on the 42 being the king of all the boats mentioned. The 42 beak boat becomes the undisputed king if you can ditch the Bravo drives. Heavy boat, and 500 plus horse, breakes drives in the rough stuff.

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

ZR Comp builder? Are you talking about Jim Caldwell?

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

I beleive so. I have a ZR Comp, and I was at a holiday party with a very well known industry insider, and he commented that he was on the phone with him earlier in the day. I do not know the gentleman, but the job that he did on my ZR comp is awesome.

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

Boy, thanks so much. I feel ALOT better now that Reggie hired someone who didn't make it at Donzi. Reggie is in tough times and can't win a race if his breakfast depended on it. Great news :rolleyes:

Big price drops? I'm alittle lost can you explain please?
You don't even know the "gentlemans" name but you seem to have a truckload of facts.

Oh yeah, how bout my friends 2001 35 Formula that took the graphics right off the bow when he removed his poker run stickers? Oh yeah, that was 2001 at Oshkosh Poker Run.

You're a funny guy and can't wait to meet you in Chicago next year at the run. I'm happy for your new used boat donzi you just bought too. Get a chance to run her yet? :rolleyes: :chimp:

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

Almost forgot, you're right Fountain doesn't come with a 5 yr warranty. It is 6.

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

hahahahah...good luck getting that backed up 3 or 4 years down the road. Plenty of reports right here on OSO that I've read of that not being the case. Owners getting blown-off or told to pound sand, some alot sooner than later in their ownership period.

and don't flatter yourself, dealers eating sh!t and $ for fountain out of thier own pocket in order to not loose a customer doesn't count as "factory warranty backup".

Formula blows away every production manufacturer, not just in packaging warranty, but standing behind it, and everyone knows it.

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

wouldn't be the first time...isn't that how Brunswick came to own a significant portion of Fountain Powerboats?

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

RIP,
If you are going to quote the man at least don't twist it around. The comment had nothing to do with any financial issue. Where's the Brunswick connection here?

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

just woke up got it out of context I guess. Brunswick as in Merc.

who hooked you up with the avatar there Mr. low tech?

I know you didn't put that together...

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

Did Formula ever find a fix to the headliners in the cabin falling apart?

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

I understand Formula met the owners of these 5 or more year old boats halfway or more to the owners satisfaction.

nice try.

isolated incidents, and remember, only because the quality and support of the product is so high do you even hear of the most isolated issues.

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

I know the Brunswick / Merc connection, just don't see any connection to his comment.

I made that change all by my little low tech self, low tech and stupid don't necessarily go hand in hand.:stupid:

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

AMEN!!
Maybe that issue will die now!:cool:

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

niether to high tech and smart from what I've seen...;)

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

For curiousity I called Eldon Porter insurance to get a feel on the 2 boats I was eyeballing. Numbers came back as follows;
2000 Lightning w/ 500 efi's & trailer 120k cost $2250/yr
2000 353 w/ 500 efi's & trailer 100k cost 1250/yr.
this was for Michigan, storage @ my place, etc.
Not same hull values, but wanted to get a feel for blue engines. Seems the 353 qualified for a special program. Fewer claims/incidents? I realize better pricing avail for 502 or 496's.

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

I mentioned demographic earlier in the thread. ;)

Fountain being a punk-boat must have more claims/accidents due to younger less experience and clumbsy drivers. :evilb: :p

not to mention as I've said on this forum before Reggies diggin' us all a hole with the speed obsession, case in point!

I'm out for dinner and partying for the night.

Everyone have a good New Year...
keep your sense of humor
and don't forget to kiss your Reggie blow-up dolls at midnight! :drink:

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

Actually someone posted here early this year or so pictures of there 2 year old 382 with the head liner totally falling apart.

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

Carefull there.

I'm sure he will bend over just for you!!!

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

Happy New Year everyone :drink:

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

I'll agree with more punk owners re: Fountain :chimp:
Also top end is much higher, on the edge of control too.

Don't forget the compensation claims for the gold chains :evilb: it all adds up to more premiums.

Great avatar RaggedEdge! :D


Happy New Year to all my high performance boating friends :drink: Have a safe and fun 007.

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

Too funny!!!

Down town 42,. we have many mutial, friends. We all play well together, and I love ya.

Ask Mr Fountain what your boat is worth, and report to us so that we can track the depreciation.

The only comment that I cannot let slip, is the one on the Donzi hire. The source that told me, and you know him well, said that he was paid handsomly.

My Favorite quote of the Chi-town area.....Great boat, old technology. Well new twist.....Those Skaters V's haul!!!!!!!!

Bring on 2007!!!!!! Faster Fountain, and your boat is worth less. Why does this only exist for Fountain, because that is how they are sold. "Do you want to go fast?", but a Fountain.

The warrantee that I also referredd to is 5 year bumper to bumper. I never spent a penny to fix any mechanical break downs. Business 101......

Re: Shopping - 38 Fountain and 353 Fastecs?
 

Organized...you actually think Fountain is the only boat that depreciates fast?!?! Formuals do as well just go look at the boattraderonline.com classifieds.