help gear heads........
#11
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From: Eastern Lake Ontario
[QUOTE=nsformula;2877934]lots of water in exh manifold and one cylinder pumpd out a little water when aired up to change seal./QUOTE]
So, it's not smoke you're seeing, it's steam. Could be cracked heads, see my earlier post.
So, it's not smoke you're seeing, it's steam. Could be cracked heads, see my earlier post.
#13
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From: Halifax, Nova Scotia
#14
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From: Halifax, Nova Scotia
got the head off,
gasket looked ok,
steel seal for cylinder ok, no visible cracks in heads
what we did find is signifcant corrosion in two rear exhaust ports, as well as spot rust in one cylinder wall
ie water,
boat has closed cooling, a/freeze in block and exh manifold below riser, ambient water in riser.
antifreeze apparantly will not cause rust
so....
water is either reversion or cracked riser????riser looks ok, not aware of process to pressure test riser
exhaust pipes are just above water level
engine was changed from origional and new risers lined up perfect with origional exhaust plumbing
boat has mulfflex inboard inline mufflers, have no idea if they have anti-reversion baffles or not, one could be bad on one side.
the odd thing is it only blows smoke on one sde so if there was a reversion issue , u would think it would do both sides unless the is an internal issue with the one muffler.
head is being pressure and vacuum tested
if it tests ok, options are..????
spacers on the risers, baffles at the stern
help me out guys,
i am trying to give as much info as possible
gasket looked ok,
steel seal for cylinder ok, no visible cracks in heads
what we did find is signifcant corrosion in two rear exhaust ports, as well as spot rust in one cylinder wall
ie water,
boat has closed cooling, a/freeze in block and exh manifold below riser, ambient water in riser.
antifreeze apparantly will not cause rust
so....
water is either reversion or cracked riser????riser looks ok, not aware of process to pressure test riser
exhaust pipes are just above water level
engine was changed from origional and new risers lined up perfect with origional exhaust plumbing
boat has mulfflex inboard inline mufflers, have no idea if they have anti-reversion baffles or not, one could be bad on one side.
the odd thing is it only blows smoke on one sde so if there was a reversion issue , u would think it would do both sides unless the is an internal issue with the one muffler.
head is being pressure and vacuum tested
if it tests ok, options are..????
spacers on the risers, baffles at the stern
help me out guys,
i am trying to give as much info as possible
Last edited by nsformula; 06-03-2009 at 06:43 PM.
#15
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From: Eastern Lake Ontario
We need to get back to your original problem, it "smokes" or likely steams after it's been shutdown. So, the problem is slow weepage and not reversion.
A leaking riser to elbow or riser to manifold gasket could cause this. That would be evident on disassembly inspection. Cracked riser, manifold, head are the other culprets.
Pressure testing your risers is not that hard. You need a couple of plates, some rubber sheet gasket or other sheet gasket material. Drill and tap one plate to accept an air fitting. Pump it up to 20 pounds or so (don't need to blow your head off with 100 psi) then leak-check the joints. If no leaks, do a few minute leak-down with a gauge. If the gauge looses pressure and the plate-to-riser joints don't leak, the riser is cracked someplace.
My money is on the heads. Either head gasket leak or cracked head. You say there was rust in the cylinder, a leaking riser or elbow or manifold would have to leak alot in order for water to enter a cylinder.
A leaking riser to elbow or riser to manifold gasket could cause this. That would be evident on disassembly inspection. Cracked riser, manifold, head are the other culprets.
Pressure testing your risers is not that hard. You need a couple of plates, some rubber sheet gasket or other sheet gasket material. Drill and tap one plate to accept an air fitting. Pump it up to 20 pounds or so (don't need to blow your head off with 100 psi) then leak-check the joints. If no leaks, do a few minute leak-down with a gauge. If the gauge looses pressure and the plate-to-riser joints don't leak, the riser is cracked someplace.
My money is on the heads. Either head gasket leak or cracked head. You say there was rust in the cylinder, a leaking riser or elbow or manifold would have to leak alot in order for water to enter a cylinder.
Last edited by ThirdBird; 06-03-2009 at 06:10 PM.
#16
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From: Halifax, Nova Scotia
We need to get back to your original problem, it "smokes" or likely steams after it's been shutdown. So, the problem is slow weepage and not reversion.
A leaking riser to elbow or riser to manifold gasket could cause this. That would be evident on disassembly inspection. Cracked riser, manifold, head are the other culprets.
Pressure testing your risers is not that hard. You need a couple of plates, some rubber sheet gasket or other sheet gasket material. Drill and tap one plate to accept an air fitting. Pump it up to 20 pounds or so (don't need to blow your head off with 100 psi) then leak-check the joints. If no leaks, do a few minute leak-down with a gauge. If the gauge looses pressure and the plate-to-riser joints don't leak, the riser is cracked someplace.
My money is on the heads. Either head gasket leak or cracked head. You say there was rust in the cylinder, a leaking riser or elbow or manifold would have to leak alot in order for water to enter a cylinder.
A leaking riser to elbow or riser to manifold gasket could cause this. That would be evident on disassembly inspection. Cracked riser, manifold, head are the other culprets.
Pressure testing your risers is not that hard. You need a couple of plates, some rubber sheet gasket or other sheet gasket material. Drill and tap one plate to accept an air fitting. Pump it up to 20 pounds or so (don't need to blow your head off with 100 psi) then leak-check the joints. If no leaks, do a few minute leak-down with a gauge. If the gauge looses pressure and the plate-to-riser joints don't leak, the riser is cracked someplace.
My money is on the heads. Either head gasket leak or cracked head. You say there was rust in the cylinder, a leaking riser or elbow or manifold would have to leak alot in order for water to enter a cylinder.
no cylinder liner fracture line.
corrosion in two rear exh ports in head
head gasket appears ok
manifold/riser gasket ok
exh manifold ok, was pressure tested
why do you say slow seepage,
only place that could come from in closed cooled system is the riser[which has ambient water] which looks good
before a pressure test or magnaflux,
you can see thru most of it from one side or the other
or reversion.
as i said, only happens after shut down, which would include throttle down, stern settling, exh ports low in water, hence
possible water pick up in exhaust.
not challenging your knowlegde,
just trying to understand myself.
the rust in the rear cylinder head exhaust ports is significant, you can pick chucks off with your fingernail, the two front ports are clean as a whistle.
the dudes at the machine shop are very good and do lots of marine work,
i'll have a report tomorrow.
they have a replacement riser for about $100 which would be
cheaper than trying rig up a pressure test for that,
so if the head is ok, i'll replace the riser,
maybe add a spacer between the manifold and riser
and flapper to the exhaust tubing
thanx
Last edited by nsformula; 06-03-2009 at 07:25 PM.
#17
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From: Eastern Lake Ontario
I assumed when you said shut down, that you meant shut down for a while. Didn't realize you meant turned off then started right back up again.
So, now that I understand that, maybe it is a reversion issue. Odd that only one bank would experience reversion though.
So, now that I understand that, maybe it is a reversion issue. Odd that only one bank would experience reversion though.
#18
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From: Halifax, Nova Scotia
i agree on the one bank, maybe there is something in the mufflers
#20
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From: Halifax, Nova Scotia
heads checked out ok for pressure and vacuum.
can only assume it was water reversion,
therefore steam not oil smoke.
oh dopey me
going back together and then another sea trial.
there are no flappers in the exhaust so will have to address
that too. although you would think the mufflers would suffice.
one guy told me if you chop the throttle it can create enough vacuum to suck water from the exhaust pipes.
will also do a compression test when heads back on.
learned alot in the last week but it costs....
i have 3 buyers for the boat if stuff checks out after re-assembly. wish me luck
can only assume it was water reversion,
therefore steam not oil smoke.
oh dopey me
going back together and then another sea trial.
there are no flappers in the exhaust so will have to address
that too. although you would think the mufflers would suffice.
one guy told me if you chop the throttle it can create enough vacuum to suck water from the exhaust pipes.
will also do a compression test when heads back on.
learned alot in the last week but it costs....
i have 3 buyers for the boat if stuff checks out after re-assembly. wish me luck




