pat@osp

I copied this quote by 4mulafastech from the Formula Guard thread. Very interested in more info on this fuel tank pick up problem. I had the starboard engine on my '06 292 stall while idling into the dock last night. After getting the boat docked (1 engine and no power steering.......nice test in boat handling) and checking things out I found that the engine would re-start and run for 2 or 3 seconds before stalling again. Also, when running the fuel pumps thru their pre start prime cycle I found that the starboard pump "sounds" substantially different than the port pump. I was figuring I must have a fuel filter and/or a fuel pump problem....................enough fuel pressure to fill the rails and get it started but not enough to keep it running? I pulled the boat out to diagnose it at my shop today. Never got the time to investigate further today but I did post a question on the Formula Forum last night and recieved two responses both about having a fuel tank pick up problem that caused a similar issue.

The boat has 105 hrs on it and never showed any type of fueling problems in the past. What exactly fails with the fuel tank pick up? Someone had mentioned that the pick up tubes are too long but I'd think that would cause a problem right away, not after 100+ hrs? For anyone that's experienced this problem, do my symtoms sound familiar...............engine starts, runs for a couple seconds, then dies.

I'm going to check fuel pressure, fuel filters, etc hopefully tomorrow.................just figured I'd cover all the bases and see what's up with this fuel tank pick up problem. Also open to any other suggestions if anyone's had a smiliar problem. Thanks in advance for any help with this

Thanks, Pat

4mulafastech

Pat, sounds exactly like the problem I had with my '06 292. I had a shop replace both of mine. The failure as it was described to me was the plastic pick-up tube that is pressed onto the barb fitting had a loose fit. This allowed air to be pulled into the fuel line causing the fuel pump to lose its prime. I don't know the root cause of the failure, but think it may have to do with material compatibility with the newer fuels containing 10% ethanol. May have caused the material to swell and lose sealing with the barb fitting. The new pick-up's are supposed to be 'improved' versions...

4mulafastech

Here is a pic of what it looks like (not the actual one out of my tank).

pat@osp

Just checked it out...........fuel filters are a bit dirty from this season but just what I'd expect to see, not plugged up by any means. 36 psi on the port engine when priming for start, and only 8 psi on the starboard engine. So either one of the pumps in the cool fuel module or the tank pick up I'd say. I'm betting that it's the pick up after your response and what I saw at the Formula Forum. When this happened I had let the fule tank get down to around 1/4 full, first time this year I let it get below 1/2. Wonder if that contributed to the problem? I just read the Formula Guard and like you said, it's not spelled out as a covered item. You said that after talking with Formula they covered it though? I'd think they would after hearing from 3 people now that it;s been an ongoing problem. Thanks a bunch for the info.

Thanks, Pat

pat@osp

BTW, do you know if they had to take out the seats and take up the access panel in the center of the floor to do this job? That's what it looks like to me but I'm going to dig further.

Thanks, Pat

pat@osp

Never mind on the access panel questions. Formula was thinking when they designed the boat. At first glance I thought that ALL the seats would have to come out because the big access panel ran underneath everthing but upon closer inspection the panel under the rear bench seat is a seperate piece and gives access to the pickups by just removing 8 screws. Formula is sending new pickups at no charge, they just won't cover any labor because it's over 3 years old now. I guess I can't ask for more than that. Should only take an hour or two to replace them. Thanks again for the info

Pat

debcod2

From what I have been told and found out the hard way is that the pick up tubes are known to crack and break this allows the pump to suck air, loose its prime and ultimatley burn out the pump while your at it.

This happened on my 2002 292 a couple years ago and my buddies 2005 just this year.

Our local marina covered both of them through Formula.

I had to have a new fuel pump on mine as well when they did it.

I would push to have them both replaced while they are in there!

I did and the other one was covered as well when it was done

4mulafastech

You're welcome Pat. Sounds like you got her figured out. You are correct about the panel underneath the rear bench. If you can, post some pics if your find it is indeed the pick-up that failed. When you run lower on fuel it takes more suction to pull it up the pick-up tube, hence more suction to draw in air causing pump cavitation (low fuel pressure). I'm sure that is what is going on in your case.

When I had the problem I had no idea what it was so the marina diagnosed it and ended up fixing it. I stated I 'expressed my thoughts' to Formula after Formula Guard refused to cover it. That is being a little kind. I certainly was not happy having only a 2 year old boat with this problem and thought it was ridiculous something like this would not be covered. It is obvious to me that their fuel tank supplier had a quality problem and I suggested that Formula follow-up with them. In the mean time, they covered both parts and labor, so I'm still am a very satisfied Formula owner.

pat@osp

Interesting, your pump was bad also? From running aerated fuel thru it I assume? Did the pump just not run............or run but not supply enough pressure / volume? Maybe I'll keep the pressure gauge hooked up to the fuel rail next time out to make sure I have good fuel supply. Formula is sending two new "improved" fuel tank pick up tubes for free but said they wouldn't cover the labor because "the boat is too old". Not really a big deal because it looks pretty straight forward to replace them and now I'm not at the mercy of waiting for the marina guy to do it two weeks from now. I guess if the pumps are a problem they are still covered under the Formula Guard program so that's a good thing. Maybe I could submit the claim directly, do the work here, and avoid having the boat held hostage at the Merc repair place? I'll have to read the Formula Guard info further. Hopefully the pump is OK. Thanks for the info.

Pat

pat@osp

It makes sense that the pick ups are the problem. Either that or the pump on that side I guess. Either way, Formula is sending the pickups and if they are not the problem now, it sounds like they could be in the future so I might as well replace them. Did you have a fuel pump problem as well in conjunction with the pick up problem?

I was thinking that the low fuel level probably contributed to the problem and what you say sounds logical. I'm also thinking that you "expressed your thoughts" more convincingly that I did to get the labor covered as well.

I'll take some pictures as we do the repairs. How do you post pictures here? Is there different levels of membership that allow different privileges?