Repower for a 311 w/Bravos?
 

Hey Guys,


I Have a '88 311 in mint condition with 330s and Bravos with approx 715 hrs. on them.
My question is where do I go from here?
They run perfectly right now .... they have never been opened .... just regular maintance .... drives are in the same shape.
The boat stays in a climate controled garage out of sun when not in use.
I have thought about putting "big" power in it but once I make that commitment I welded to this boat for quite awhile.
The boat runs low 62-64 mph with labbed 23 Mirages or 58mph with 23 Revolutions (4 blade) .... with these props the boat over all handles awesome ... very stable ..... great at docking ..... great mid range with little hp .... 3000 rpm = 40 mph which is where we cruise most of time.
What kind of speeds and horsepower are some of your 311s using right now with Bravos.
Does anyone have any great "success stories" or horror stories ie big money no gain.
What is the actual hull speed of a 311 does anyone really know.
Something I also need to consider is whether or not if I am going to need Hydraulic steering when you get into higher speeds.

Any thought s or ideas would be greatly appreciated regarding this.

Jeff

I'll save the little guy the keystrokes...

BUY A FOUNTAIN :evilb: :drink:

Mint is not the word:grinser010:

If you want reliable good power without breaking the bank. Find a set of low hr 420's and pull yours to put back in when you sell it:drink:

If you try to use yours with the cast internals it would prolly cost more to upgrade yours then to freshen up a pair of 420's.

JMHO

CB

Mine had 502 MPI engines in it and did 72 on top and cruised at 50. Now I have replaced those with HP500 EFI's and have about 74-75 top end and a cruise of 55 pretty easy. So I really didn't get much going from 415 hp to 470 per side.

That's funny !!! You beat to him to it .....

Jeff

Thanks Sam!

Honestly my $.02 put it on the market and if it sells it sells. Clean Formulas (and I have seen your Twins and it is SHARP) seem to sell. And then put your money into something that is a little more speed friendly. I do think that the 311 for the size and weight will run pretty respectably with moderate (500hp or so) power.

I have a line on a fresh pair of 454s dyno'd at 400hp each for $6400.00 using my stock exaust and accessories.

Only going to pick up maybe 5-6 mph though.

Jeff

Do you have external steering as well? If not how does it handle without?

Jeff

Thanks Cuposterchild,

I was in the Islands this weekend .... froze our azz off ...

Just getting some ideas here ..... trying to decide which way to go. I love the 311 but ..... I want more.

Jeff

I have thought of doing the same only with big power small blocks.But when you run the numbers you could sell your boat and buy what you want your boat to do for less money.And in my opinion you need hydraulic steering on your boat I can't believe Formula did not do it on the 311s either.A full Latham setup is 10gs alone.

I totally agree .... but it is what it is at this point.

I just want to know what speed is the magic number .... I think 70+ is it.

Then decide what $ x hp + extras = what to do.

Jeff

my 311 will do 75 any day ...I have seen 78+ ....motors are Mk IV 496's ~600HP... I aquired a 353 this summer and I was not impressed at first but the more I use the 353 the more I like it ....totally different ...but the 311 is much more stable and Forgiving .... The Steering is the best upgrade I have done ....no comparison to stock ....its a MUST ....
Jeff ..what about selling your 311 and buying mine?
Motors ....new drives ....steering ...dash ...all the stringer work ..... mike .....

http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/b...319.html<br />

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/z...1/DSC00643.jpg

Jeff any plans this weekend?

Mike,

I have followed all of your upgrades .... AWESOME JOB!

I love the colour scheme of mine .... no offense ... but if I sell mine I am going to change gears completely .... I will go bigger all the way around.

I have been poking around at 382s , Slingshots, and 42 Fountains (Lightning or Executioner).

I know they are totally different what I am talking about here but I still love my boat.

How about we put my 330s in yours and put your iron in mine. :lolhit:

Jeff

Not yet ... Why?

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/f...twin-600s.html

Look for jaybird's posts. His boat has/had TRS drives. Not sure if it was a 525SC boat from the factory or if someone installed the B&M 174s on the 420s. Obviously, don't know the EXACT details of the engines, but if they were really only 174s on top of what were originally 420s, there's an upper limit to what the 174s would be good for. My point being that they weren't some monster 700-800hp engines, probably more like 550hp. 25p cupped (say 26p?) Mirages spun through 1.50 TRS at 5600rpm @ 10% slip = 79-80mph.

We did not dyno my motors but the guy that built them built another one that he said was Almost Identical and it Dyno's @ 613hp with Dyno headers ...... I am spinning Labbed (by Merc) 28's about 5100 and it was 77+ ...... I borrowed another labbed set of 28's from one of the boat Freak Boys and saw the 78+ ....... But those props were like razors .....no way you could run them every day .... I doubt you will see 10% slip on a 311 hull .....I also ran stock 28's for a while that really had greater mid range and cruise than the Labbed ....m

Hmmmmmmmmm

Yes, I have external steering.

thinking of hitting seneca on saturday

I have an '89 311 with bravo's.When I got it ten years ago I put in a pair of 540's and Latham steering.I didn't dyno the motors but the boat would do low 80's on gps turning stock 30 bravo 4 blades 5000 rpm.The boat was fantastic to drive,the power really woke up the hull.Acceleration and cornering wre excellent.Long story short, the motors were'nt done right and expired early.I put stock 365's back in turning 24 bravo 4 blades 4900 rpm. 65 on gps.Feels like a different boat, not nearly as good, porpoises with out the tabs. IMHO If you really like the boat put big power in.

I tend to agree with you as well .... this hull needs bigger power to really appreciate what it is capable of.

Jeff

Guys thank-you for your input on this topic.

I am still undecided ..... but when I do decided I will do a step by step install and share it with you.

At this point I leaning towards 1 of 2 things ..... absolutely loosing my mind and making this a serious boat with all the "right stuff" or cutting my lose and stepping up to the plate and buy new technology in a bigger boat which opens a whole other can of worms.

But like I said thanks!

Jeff

Jeff,
if you want my input keep what you got keep it together and enjoy it, both of the other options you mentioned will lead to headaches, and your boat is nicer then 95% of anything you will look at and it will have less cabin, however should you go the other route I will be happy to steal yours:grinser010:

Very true ..............

Jeff: I would consider standoff boxes. I removed a set of Kamma's from a 86 357 and put bravo 1's on imco boxes with 3" rise. I set the X dimension 2" higher than Formula recomends and used the boxes to help cover the lower hole in the transom from the kammas. The 357 ran 60-62 with the kammas and 420 hp kamma motors. Put in bravo 1's, standoff boxes and 502 crate motors with super charger (500hp at best) and saw 74 mph on gps before I puked one motor. Lost interest in the boat, sold it and purchased a 419 fastec with triple 525's. That boat ran 80 in the Florida summer and 83 in the winter. Currently re-building motors in the 419 to sell this winter. All that being said, I think adding the boxes would wake up the 311 like it certainly woke up my 357. We both know the 357 isn't nearly as quick as the 311. Also, had a friend years ago with a 1990 311 with 415 hp and bravo 1s. Took the engines to Innovation to 530 hp and was seeing 78 with the stock bravo 1 setup. The 311 is a timeless boat and I think it is worth putting more money in it if you like the boat.

Not to hijack the thread GT But i had no idea the 357 was so slow with the Kaama's ? Weight?

How did I miss this. :confused:

However, when you're right, you're right! BUY THE FOUNTAIN !!!
But then Jeff and I have already had that conversation. ;)
Settle or go for it, life is all about choices!

[QUOTE=Rippem;3202497]I'll save the little guy



Just an after thought here, but what's with the little guy chit?

Last I knew your Big Guy Formula was 20+ off the Little Guy's Fountain. Your Big Guy Velocity was 20+ off the Little Guy's Velocity, even with the Little Guys's cast off power in it. Your Pac was off the mark as well, pretty much covers the last 20+ years. Seems to me that the Big Guy is always walkin' in the shadow of the Little Guy! Just a little observation on the part of the Little Guy.

Am I seeing things wrong from down here? :lolhit:

simple, steal Mikes motors out of the Hustler......

first of all i don't know how you missed it for days myself...

second,
I've been happy.
That's not "off" by any means, from anyone or anything.
Truly all that matters-
but if you want more than that about my boating to matter to you -
go for it!

[QUOTE=RaggedEdge;3206955]yes, you must be looking up thru the bottom of a highball glass again...

I'll give you the present-tense Formula /fountain.
Of course apples to oranges in terms of intended use therefor bottom, wieght, options, and most of all power.
Yes you can get to Singer first but over the course of the 7 years I've owned the 353 I am positive I've done more boating season-for-season, been more places in it, and gotten more azz in it than you have in the last 20...make that exponentially more
That's what I bought the boat for, not to get to Singer first. See?

as far as the 32 V's? Your above spewage would mean yours ran 97+ on GPS?
Trust me, you may not know it, but no one from here to Syracuse (lol) has EVER believed that...

what do you know about my 27 Pac?
nothing. but I'll tell you ('cause you weren't in the Bay scene then) it ran 68- electronics weren't the norm then, but we'll call 75 on the speedo 68. K?
it would have been a dead heat with your 32 Pac.

Kinda conveniently left out my 26' V didn't 'ya?
Of course you've enlisted your selective, self-serving memory here.
you wouldn't want to talk about what that combo would have done to what you were still running at the time...

That's right, you still hadn't made it to the Bay making the scene then either...
So stop talking outta your a s s. :kiss:

[QUOTE=Rippem;3207993]

Yes I remember your Pac, and the 26 V, and the little blower motor that was somewhat challenged in terms of longevity. And your stint in the loaner V boat the last time it chit and you gave up and went the stock power route in the 32 V. Far as my 32 V, it ran what it ran, supprised a lot of people in 100 mph rigs, and was way out of your class! :rolleyes:

Present tense formula vs Fountain, apples to oranges for sure. One is a performance boat, the other is something else. Chit, I sold a 320 Dancer with 496's to a friend a couple years back.

Talk about an Azz speaking!


P.S. 7 in means only 13 to go!:eek: You 'da Man!

Boys please continue your saga on TIBBC !!!!!

Thanks,

Now back to our regular programing ....

I have spoke to an engine builder who can use my blocks (using new parts and accesories) ..... turning them into 489cu dyno at approx. 530 hp. for approx. $ 14k installed. I still need some upgraded exaust and hydraulic steering application.

Any ideas on exaust and what kind of $ are realistic and the same for external steering ..... do I need a full system right to the wheel or only a "part time" deal.


Jeff

GT, I had stainless marine in a 292 sri using it in salt water and after 4-5 years, they were still perfect. Whatever you do, go with long exhaust risers and mix the water and exhaust as far away from the manifold as possible. Stainless Marine exhaust seem to me to be pretty cost effective. I would go with imco on the steering!!

Def go full hydraulic and 2nd the vote on Imco .... my 353 has the Lathem and 311 I went Imco and the is smoother and easier .... Also Agree on the Stainless Marine pipes ....with the water ran to the ends ......and Prob SM manifolds although I like the looks of the Hardin Marine ..Typhon?

You're in the biz, why not call in a favor from your GM buds? Some brand spanky new crate motors would spice things up for you, the 500 hp 502's would be a decent route to go. No GM buds? Call me and I'll see what little bro can do for you. If you're going to be around 500 hp a set of good Gil's or basic CMI E Tops are a good choice for the money.

Far as the steering goes, do the whole deal, helm and all. You owe it to yourself and all on board to have a real system. I did the retro fit on the Velocity with a full IMCO system, pretty simple deal, well worth the money, which is not that bad in reality. Best bang for the buck then, assume the same is true today.

Just beware of the man with the majic solution, unless he's willing to step up and back what he claims he can do. You need a solid, old school, engine guy, I just happen to have one up here. Nothing fancy, just solid, honest and about as good as they get. He'll build you anything you want! :drink:

Sorry for the diversion! Just hard to pass on a chance to rile up the know it all Azz. :lolhit:
You know what I mean. Got beer, I'm ready to go! ;)

My apologies Jeff for having to stifle dickheads' childish rant with facts...
and therefore, unfortunately sponsoring his similarly childish retort.

I think I hit several nerves there exposing his self-inflated and self serving remeberances, for the BS they are,
as well as his lack of ever being anywhere near half the s h i t he "knows all" about.
Nothing new about that from the runt.

If he knew half of what he claims to, he'd be dangerous.
Keyboard intelligence and bravado personified.