Late Eighties Red Toggle Switches
 

Anyone have a line on the lighted red toggle switches used on late eighties - early nineties Formulas??

Also, does anyone have dash panels from the same year range? I need the thin upper glove box side panel for a 311. I think all of the panels are the same for different size boats of those years except maybe the 357.

ttt

Dave ... how many switches you need? I might have some but not sure ...I can look ....I changed all mine when I went to new gauges ....m

What did you replace yours with? Just curious, I am doing my dash in my 272 right now. If i come up with something nice I might be able to help this guy out too....

They are black toggles with a red led on the tips when they are on .....I got them online pretty cheap ...dont have a real good pic ...I'll look and see if I can find where I got em ....they operated real nice .....m

real close ....73180

http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/en-us/d132.html


http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/z...1/P1000625.jpg

Mike, I need two but would take a few more if you have them. Also, per your post below, you newer style ones would be good.

$11.95 on Ebay... captains surplus, off / on tip lighted toggle switch http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Hey Guys,
Check when you replace those rockers. Most of the originals were a unit that integrated a circuit breaker. Plain rocker or plain lighted rockers don't protect the wiring or device. Ask me how I know! Might have a line on replacements at a reasonable price. Al J

I'll look ....seems though I chunked em .....they seemed really dry or not so smooth ...the new switches were really sweet .....will be in touch ....m

I don't think the original switches have integrated circuit breakers, they don't look big enough. But, you may be right.

I agree .....

If they are ETA's they are circuit breakers. Not much bigger than a standard switch. I'll try to post a picture of one. Al J

I bought replacements from Formula. They are German-made, with integrated circuit breakers. And there are different load ratings depending on which device the switch controls.

When I looked behind the panel and saw how these things are wired, I decided a couple of $40 switches were worth the trouble of rewiring the whole panel.

Handful is correct. The "switches" are made by ETA in Germany and are circuit breakers. If you look at the back (or bottom) of the ETA breaker it has an amp rating printed on it. The reason they seem "sticky" in operation is that they are more than just toggling on and off. They are mechanically disconnecting the internal breaker. They range in amperage from about 2 amps to 20 amps I think. I've been able to find surplus or salvage units for about $15 each. When Formula changed to the curved windshield models (starting about 1985 with the F206) they went from a glass fuse panel under the dash with black plastic rocker switches to this toggle/breaker design which completely eliminated the glass fuses. Without putting fuses or breakers before any new non-ETA switches you install there will be no protection of the wiring or device on that circuit except the protection of the high amperage main breaker in the cabin or under the rear seat. Al J

.....R13-423 is the switch .... they are rated for 30 amps ....

http://service.sci.com.tw/htm/switch...LED.htm#TOGGLE

http://www.rapidonline.com/1/1/2248-...le-switch.html

Posting some pics of the dash switches Attachment 446969

Attachment 446970

Attachment 446971 Note the circuit breaker rating on the back of the two ETA breakers. They TRIP automatically at that amperage. Plain switches will not trip at their rating. Switch amp rating is how much amperage the switch can take before MELTING or CATCHING ON FIRE!

My top picture in the above post is the ETA breaker-switch on the left and the incorrect lighted 25 amp rated toggle switch on the right. Middle picture shows the back of two ETA breaker switches. Bottom picture shows the old black plastic rockers from my 1985 F402 and the newer Carling rubber covered Rockers I replaced them with on the right. In the next post I'll show you what I had to do In my F402 to get rid of the glass fuses but still use the cheaper standard Carling rockers without the built in breakers.

These are pictures of the wiring rerig I did under the dash board on my F402. The F402 was amazing with all the wiring. The three wiring blocks all the way to the left on the bulkhead replaced the "Radio Shack" quality glass fuse blocks that were originally installed. I replaced those fuse blocks with the three rows of toggle circuit breakers you see in the left lower corner of the picture on the dash side panel. The large bundle of red wiring on the upper far left lead from the wiring blocks to the back of the new circuit breakers. This wiring is ONLY for the dash and engine controls! F402's and to a lesser extent F357's also have a separate "House side" circuit breaker panel down in their cabins as well.
Attachment 446976

Attachment 446977
Although the F311 is nowhere near this complex, It still would require rewiring the dash switches with individual circuit breakers in a similar fashion to insure your wiring and the switched device is protected. You do not want a fire!

Valuable information. Thank you for explaining all of this. I really didn't think those switches had breakers but you've proved that otherwise.

Here you go....
http://www.wholesalemarine.com/p/S-D...le+Switch.html

Endevour,
Those are the NON-Circuit Breaker toggle switches. BE VERY CAREFUL HERE.They do NOT protect wiring! That was exactly the mistake I made. I can get ahold of some of the ETA breakers if anyone needs them. Look up ETA on the web and you may be able to see them on the manufacturers site and how they work. To use the those switches you must add a fuse before the switch or install circuit breakers separately ahead of the switch like I did on the F402.:lolhit:

Your right! I just looked at mine and they're the ciruit breaker type!

So, is there still a source for the original switches?

eta breaker switches
 

wes-garde components 8oo-554-8866 part #111-p10-g10-wt-14-(amperage here)-12v they have warehousing everywhere in the us.

I'll check that out. Thank you very much!!

Hey Thirdbird,
Did you check that part # at wes-guard? I checked the website but no luck. Looks like the correct part but I didn't find it at ETA's website. Might be discontinued. Old part number on all the units I have are #41-11-P10- XX(amperage)-12. I have found electronic surplus houses that have these and #111-P10-G10...... but have 120volt at the end of the part number indicating that the light bulb is for use in 120 volt AC systems not 12 volt DC. I found a chart that breaks down ETA's part number sequence. I'll try to post. I did find some used 5 amp units locally if anyone is interested.

Thanks Alj, mine is still in storage and I can't remember which switch I need. May be intersted in one of those used 5 amp jobs.

this the same place I got my new switches from .....

http://www.delcity.net/store/LED-Bla...e/p_789212.a_1

I understand where alj is coming from but in my 311 there were breakers for all the circuits .....m

Mike, I agree that alj makes sense but I also agree with you that all of our main circuits are protected by seperate breakers with the only exceptions being lights I think. So, you've installed these LED switches and have had no issues?

You guys need to look at Formula wiring diagrams or call Formula before putting in switches like that. Yes, the circuits for the dash are protected by a larger main - BUT the wire feeding the dash from that main breaker is much larger (i.e. 10 gauge or 12 gauge), and the breaker That wire has much more ampacity than the 14 gauge or 16 gauge wires coming off the switch. What the "breaker switches protect is the device attached and the lighter gauge wire on that switch's circuit. By your logic, I can eliminate all the circuit breakers in my circuit load center in the basement of my house because they are protected by the 200 amp main breaker and just use the wall switches to protect my wall outlets or ceiling lights. Since nobody asked - I had a blower motor on the F402 that someone had bypassed the 15 amp fuse on the fuse panel and wired directly to the power strip block. The fuse panel had deteriorating from salt water exposure so the glass fuse mount had corroded. The blower was now on a 40 amp breaker in the engine compartment. After time blower motors can either bog down because of dirt and crap in the fan itself or the motor windings can corrode, slowing down the fan. This slow down increases the amperage required to keep the fan running. This amperage can slowly grow to the point that it is higher than the rating of the wire on it. ( ever use a high amperage power tool on a light gauge extension cord?) The wire overheats and in my case melted the wire sheathing causing a small fire. IN MY BOAT! I hate to be the party pooper but you really need to ask the experts at Formula, and then ask again. The wiring diagram I have for the F311 shows me that the blower and bilge circuits need fusing for the switches. For instance, look at the bilge pump circuit breaker under the rear seat. Look at the diagram and you'll see that the bilge pump actually has TWO circuit paths from the battery. The one under the rear seat is ONLY for the automatic bilge pump circuit. That leaves the dash switch unprotected. The dash switch controls the bilge pump "manual" circuit. TWO SEPARATE CIRCUITS! The blower switch is unclear in the diagram I have, and may very well be protected by the two breakers under the rear seat, however, better safe than sorry. The light switches are definetly not protected by any thing but the main ignition circuit breakers. It's tough to follow in the wiring diagram but the dash light switches go to the dash instrument harness which goes directly back to the ignition breakers which go directly to the starter solenoid. All you need is a light gauge wire that is chafed or corroded. If it is only connected to a heavy gauge circuit breaker and wiring (like the ignition circuits) you can have burning wires. Just not worth the fancy new switches IMO. After finding that little wiring fiasco in the F402, I started looking very carefully at what was worked on in my boat. The people that worked on that F402 had done a lot more of this so called 'electrical work". I decided it just wasn't worth the chance of a catastrophy. I completely ripped out all the wiring in the 402 and rerigged it all. It took an entire winter season. Formula was very helpful in educating me as to why they wire things the way they do. I did it exactly the way they originally engineered it. I only changed things to update to their newer technologies and specs. (like circuit breaker panels instead of glass fuse panels). Although you haven't had any problems so far, what happens when you have a problem in the future? Fuses and circuit breakers solve future problems. Ask me, I know. Food for thought!

Had no issues ... what I did not like about those switches were the spade type terminals ... I use marine type connectors and heat shrink everything though and worked out fine ...the was a small hole in the spade and if you wanted to take the time I think you could have used a small machine screw .... I was thinking there was a breaker for the manual bilge pump in the panel under the helm .....I looked at the diagram but dont see it though ...I might have added a second breaker under the rear seat ...I upgraded that panel also ....m

I know this thread is a bit old but does anyone know where these switches / breakers can be sourced?

Illuminated Toggle Switches
http://m.delcity.net/store/Illuminated-Toggles/p_789206

Thanks Off but I think those are just switches and not the OE breaker type switches. Hoping to find the breakers...

My 311 had individual breakers under each switch besides the main so I was find to just replace with ones that were the same as in the link above. It did require some rewiring but that was fairly easy.

Your point is well taken. I only need one switch at the moment so I was hoping for simple component replacement.

I looked like crazy for an exact replacement and had no luck on that front. The good news is that the ones that I used were not real expensive. I think it was like 50 bucks for all of them. The other thing I remember about it was that it was real hard to remove the panel from the dash. You had to get it just right. Once it was out the new switches were smaller. This made it much easier to get the dash back in.

I'm looking for replacement dashboard toggle switches for a 1989 Formula 272 SR-1. I think used or salvage ones would be fine.


Thanks.

I spent 4 months re-wiring a Formula. It was caused by PO bypassing a circuit breaker and the wire shorting out to main ground wire.
It started in the harness down the left side of the boat and through the galley.
The boat literally caught on fire. Looking back, I should have just disconnected the trailer from the truck and let it become a science project on the side of the road.
Instead, I jumped into a burning boat and fought the fire. Because the wiring was trashed, it was not possible to use the hatch actuator to open the engine compartment to disconnect the batteries. So we had to manually lift the hatch (That's why you have the slip fit tube on the end of the hatch actuator) about 6 inches and disconnect the batteries that were still arching and relighting the fires.
Trashed every electrical component between the galley and the aft nav light. Except the TB-IV ignition modules.
Oh yeah, it burned the paint off the top of the fuel tank and fiberglass wall that the rear seat back attaches to.

Do yourself a favor.
Spend the $50 for switches with the breakers built in.