A quick update. . . Coming to you from I-95 near Daytona, Florida, as the Admiral and I make our way to southern FL.

I may get a chance to pull the tank out this coming weekend. This will give me a chance to inspect the tank for corrosion and plan out the next steps. I am anticipating that the tank may come out fairly easily as compared to the process that i went though with my F-242, since the paint is separating from the tank. I probably will pull all of the remaining foam out of the fuel bay as well to get a more complete look at the main portions of the structure.

Based on what I find with the fuel tank, in terms of corrosion, if any, I will have to decide on whether to refurbish the tank or replace the tank. FWIW- I replaced the tank on my 242, because I found some fairly deep pits in the rear face of the tank.

Any advice on the tank assessment? I'll post some pics once I get the thing out.

fuel tank Removal Update:

Today I started to remove the fuel tank, which is a bit of a process. A few weeks ago, I removed the helm seat to expose the deck hatch and tilted it up for a first look into the fuel tank bay.

I started out the day by repositioning the deck hatch so that I would have room to work, etc. Then is was a matter of removing the waste tank, which is suspended over the fuel tank.

Here is a video of the day . . . I am finding the videos fairly easy to put together versus a slew of photos, but I did take a few stills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVFSOpJhRxo I did not quite get the tank to 'pop' out of the foam today. The foam seems to be separated from the tank most of the way around the tank, but some of the saturated foam, low in the fuel bay is frozen. Perhaps that has a grip on the tank . . .

I'll have a bit more time to work on the tank tomorrow morning, so I'll see if I can get the tank to come out.

Here are a bunch of still photos from yesterday, working on the fuel tank removal . . .

I managed to jockey the deck hatch around so that I could get all of the 'junk' that I forgot to remove from the ski locker. What you see here is the underside of the ski locker as the deck hatch is propped up on its end. I elevated the deck hatch with some boards to hold it out of the fuel tank bay and secured it with some lines. I'm guessing it weighs about 300 lbs, so it may just stay where it is for the duration of the project.

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3551.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3553.jpg

I heated the hose connections to the waste tank so that they would be a bit more pliable in removing them from the fittings. This is a technique that I use fairly often with older hoses as they become brittle with age. These hoses have been in place for 18 years.

The waste tank came out fairly easily, yet still had about 1 gallon of 'pee/poop' in it . . . very gross. I am not sure how much antifreeze made it to the waste tank from my winterizing. So, I will have to sharpen that process up a bit.

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3554.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3558.jpg

I got the tank and its 'carrier' out of the way so I could get clear access to the fuel tank. I started pulling the foam out from the sides of the tank with a pry bar. The paint from the tank came off, on the sides and rear of the tank. the front face of the tank, was different in that the paint held and the foam stuck to the tank, as it should.

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3566.jpg

So, I suspect that the tank was not properly prepped on all sides before painting. Probably, just the front face was prepped. Of course, with my luck, the underside was probably prepped, which will make the removal of the tank all that much harder

I did not get the tank to 'pop' out from the foam, as I stated in my earlier post, but here are a couple of pictures that I took of the rear face of the tank. there is some corrosion showing, but not bad at all. My hopes are that the underside of the tank is also in decent shape (else the boat budget is gonna take another beating this year)

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3583.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3586.jpg

A quick update:

I got the tank to 'pop' out from the foam today. The tank is still in the boat, but it is loose all around and ready to be lifted out of the boat.

Here is a video of the day. . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmOydPhA_vw

I took some pictures of the underneath of the tank before I packed things up for the day, yesterday. A couple of the images have me a bit concerned about the tank . . .

I noticed that there is a void in the foam along the belly of the tank . . . this is about 1-2 feet from the rear of the tank

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F.../IMG_3630A.jpg

Then there seems to be a corresponding dark area on the tank itself . .

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F.../IMG_3631A.jpg

My concern is that although the tank looks pretty good overall, one deeply pitted area can ruin it. So, I will have to see what it looks like at closer inspection, once I get the the tank out of the boat.

I am thinking that I will want to come up with a installation/foaming method that will insure a solid fill along the belly of the tank. Ideas, comments and thoughts welcome on that aspect of the repair (and any aspect for that matter)

:)

While I have no pearls of wisdom to offer this is an awesome post and I appreciate you taking the time to show pics and videos. Although I would hate to have to tackle a job like this I find it supremely interesting and educational when others do

Thank you for your good words. It seems like part of the process when owning older boats. There are items that need attention and the scope of those things can take you places that you had not originally planned.

Once it became apparent that the issue was fuel tank related, properly fixing it became the priority. This boat should have good longevity once everything is put back together.

Thanks for sharing all this, it will be very valuable to future Formula owners! Best of luck with your project!

I be watching ;)

Didn't realize that you hung out over here too. Glad to have you along here as well.

I got the fuel tank up out of the fuel bay today. It took pretty much the whole day, but it is up on the sunpad now. I can lower it down to the ground next time I work on the boat.

Overall, the tank looked pretty good. I found a small pit in the base of the tank in the area were I spotted the void in the foam last time.

Here is a video of the day, I'll post some pics as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I01x0hyJndM The tank took a bit longer to remove from the boat than I had thought, and I still have to lower it from the boat. That part will have to wait. Overall. the tank does not look too bad for 18 years old.

Here are some pictures from the day of removing the fuel tank from the boat.

First, I got 2 lines under the tank and used 2x4 lumber as 'lifting' levers. The deck hatch actually came in handy as a place to lift from using the 2x4's.
http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3724.jpg

During the process of lifting the tank, I took this picture of the space underneath the tank . . . it looks like it separated fairly cleanly from the foam. That made it easier to take out, but also further indicates that it needs to be re-installed after being re-painted, etc.

Usually, foamed in tanks are much harder to take out than this, because the foam is supposed to stick to everything and not let go.
http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3714.jpg

Once I had the tank elevated to about deck height, I lifted the rear portion of the tank so that I could get some boards underneath, essentially making a 'ramp' for the tank.
http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3730.jpg

I used a couple of PVC pipes so that I could 'roll' the tank up the ramp that I created with the boards. This gave it little friction, which is both 'good' and 'bad'.
http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3745.jpg

As I progressively lifted the tank, which proved to be quite heavy (or maybe I'm getting weaker), I used some 2x4 lumber to brace the tank
http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3736.jpg

At one point in the process, the tank flopped over and became unstable. So, I had to back it down and re-engineer things a bit. I also added a second 'safety line' around the lower end of the tank to give the tank a bit more stability, etc.

The tank did finally make it out of the boat . . . until it reached a point where I could lift it up onto the sunpad. . .
http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3742.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3746.jpg

This gave me a first full look at the fuel tank bay . . .
http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3748.jpg

Lots of paint left behind. Only the forward face of the tank had the foam come with it. The rest separated via the paint.

You can also see the bulkhead area that I removed at the outset of this project. Once I pull the remaining foam out of the fuel tank bay, I can then re-focus on the bulkhead. I will have to finish cutting the bulkhead remnants around the edges and also expose the butt end of the center stringer.

In parallel, I can work on inspecting, prepping and re-painting the fuel tank. Upon a quick inspection, I found only one area where there was a small pit in the early formation stages. Hopefully, that will be 'repairable'. The fact that the tank is 0.190" thick aluminum helps in that regard. My previous tank was only 0.125", which is more easily compromised.

I have been giving some thought to a revised installation method that will provide the benefits of foam installation, as well as an 'air channel' underneath the tank along the keel. I will post some drawings of this concept for comment.

Great job, thanks for taking all the pics along the way it is quite a job, considering it`s less than 30* outside.

Thanks. It has been cold and that tends to make things go slower.

These projects often start out small and then increase in scope once you start digging into it. Originally, I thought it was just an issue of moisture seeping into the foam and working its way into the bulkhead. I tried just draining the moisture and getting the bulkhead to dry out, but that did not seem to do the trick.

Then the scope expanded into taking out the bulkhead, which in turn revealed the fuel tank issue being the source of the moisture and why it did not simply dry out with my initial efforts.

Update - Next steps:

I might get a chance to work on the boat this weekend, with the Monday (President's Day) holiday.

The next steps would be to:

1) clean & inspect the fuel tank - I think there is about 1 gallon +/- of fuel still in it that could not be pumped out. I should probably purge the tank to get rid of the remaining fuel / fumes, etc. and then do an internal inspection of the tank with my borescope/inspection camera.

2) remove all of the remaining foam from the fuel bay and get a look at the darkened areas that are starting into the main stringers. I think that I will need to 'inject' some wood 'chemotherapy' into the stringer/bulkhead joints to stop the progression.is weekend, with the Monday (President's Day) holiday.

Seems like this is an 'old fashioned winter' on Cape Cod. More snow and cold . . . Might have to clear a foot of snow off the boat before I can resume working on it.

Yea in the western part of the state we have be getting it to, except I am thinking about shoveling part of the roof:lolhit:

I did some more work on the boat yesterday - President's Day . . .

The snow on Cape Cod was fairly heavy and some had accumulated on the tarp.
http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3788.jpg

However, the tarp and frame held up, so I was able to clear it off.

I lowered the tank from the boat . . . gravity did a pretty good job and the snow made for a soft landing.
http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3791.jpg

I set the tank up on a couple of saw horses and drained off the residual fuel, the best I could.
http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3798.jpg

There were a couple dozen pitted areas along the belly of the tank. The depth to 'clean metal' was about 1 mm, maybe 1.5 mm at the worst case. The tank itself is 5 mm thick (0.190"), so generally the pits are 20-30% of the thickness. Once the depth of the pits approach 50%, then it is time to consider a new tank or welding repair. (IMHO)

I removed the remaining foam, mostly stuck to the forward face of the tank, and then gave the tank a sanding. I will probably have to use some paint remover to get down to bare metal in all areas of the tank.

Then, I took a look in the fuel bay and started to remove the foam.. Since it was only about 20 degrees F outside, much of the saturated foam towards the rear of the fuel bay was frozen. So, I worked on the forward area and exposed the forward bulkhead. The forward bulkhead had moisture beginning to penetrate from the middle. So, I will want to apply some corrective measures to this bulkhead as well. I could treat it with EG or perhaps replace it, same as the rear bulkhead.
http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3811.jpg

I'll have to give it some thought . . . my inclination is to get it to dry out (since it has a fair amount of bare wood surface), then treat it with EG. . . allow it to absorb/dry out, then glass over it. But . . . . there would be a nice feeling to just replacing it and not worrying about it . . . Anyway, if I get a big enough piece of plywood, then I could replace both bulkheads.

So, as these sorts of projects unfold, this is now the second 'surprise' that I have encountered. The project started out with the intention of replacing the firewall bulkhead . . . quickly expanded to re-installing the fuel tank . . . and now potentially replacing the forward bulkhead. No more surprises would be good.

Here is a video of the day as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nk8MNdZGTE

This is like how my boat started. Is not going to stop tell every piece of wood is replaced in my boat!

Yup, I am thinking that I will replace the forward bulkhead of the fuel bay just to see if there is moisture under the mid-cabin floor. There is a storage area just forward of the fuel tank bay and it has a couple of plywood ribs and foam below it.

Someone on iBoats suggested using hydrogen peroxide on the darkened area of the main stringers to kill the rot. I had not considered HP previously . . . thoughts on that versus Ethylene Glycol?

IMO the only way to do it and feel good about doing it is to cut it out. You could set a router up and take out the rotten wood and put a new piece in there. The reason that it does not stay in one place is that Formula (and most builders) lay the stringers in there and then glass them in. So if water gets in one area it can travel all over under the glass. If they put them in one piece at a time then glassed them in and then put in the next piece it would have stopped the migration of water. Of course then the boat would have cost a lot more….

Yes, I think that I will cut out the forward bulkhead and cut out the stringer-to-bulkhead tabbing to expose the darkened areas of the main stringers for a closer look. When I replace both bulkheads, I am going to encapsulate them in fiberglass first, so that they cannot readily absorb moisture, nor spread it to any of the adjoining structure.

Also did some research on hydrogen peroxide, it seems that HP is an active ingredient in the "brown rot" process of wood (dry rot). So, I think that any treatment of the wood to fend off rot will be ethylene glycol.

A quick update -

I happened to go to the New England Boat show last Saturday. . . took a look at the Formula 310 and 350 series that they had on display. As I was looking through the product literature, I noticed that Formula is using now "Perma Panel" wood in their hull matrix, instead of regular exterior grade plywood. I'm not sure when they made the switch . . probably a while ago. I believe that the Perma Panel product is from Inland Plywood Company. Chaparral boats use a similar product called Greenwood XL.

These products are pressure treated for rot, then Kiln-Dried After Treatment (KDAT), which makes them suitable for bonding with fiberglass.

Anyway, it does not look like I can get any Perma Panel at a retail level, but I may try to see if I can get something along those lines. Regular PT plywood would be too 'wet' and probably take months in the sun to 'dry out' to the point where it could be used in the boat's structure for repairs.

While I was at the Boat Show, I noticed Scott Porter (Formula Boat's President) was there . . . I chatted with him for a while about the product lines, noting that there was currently a fairly big 'gap' between the 310 and the 350 lines. If I were to go new at some point it would be nice to stay in the 33' range. The 310 seemed tight vs my 330 and the 350 is just too big for my mooring space. Maybe they will have something new in the future to fill that 'gap'. :)

Progress report:

My progress report is that I have no progress to report, sorry to say. Been busy with work and life's happenings. I hope to get some time to work on the boat this coming weekend. Next steps are to:

1) Prep the fuel tank down to bare metal. I should probably take a look inside it via the sender hole and flush it out.

2) Remove the foam from the fuel tank bay.

3) Then, it will be a matter of trimming the bulkhead edges from the cutting that I did at the outset of this project. I also hope to get a look at the center engine mount stringer, once I cut the remnants of the bulkhead away from it.

4) I think that I will replace the rear bulkhead first, then decide what to do about the moisture I found in the forward bulkhead.

I'll definitely need some warmer days to make good progress, and probably will have to come up with a way of heating the boat's internal areas in order to do the fiberglass work. . . . Maybe a portable heater ???? Not sure it would be enough.

Here is an update on the foam removal and finish cutting of the bulkhead . . .

The weather was fairly warm yesterday and the predicted rain held off, so I was able to be quite a bit done.

Here is the fuel bay cleaned out of all the foam. It was fairly wet in many areas, so I am glad to be doing this work now, rather than a few years from now.

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3869.jpg

I took some moisture readings in the forward bulkhead, which has become an additional concern once I exposed the inside face of it.

Fairly high in the lower section within the moisture pattern.

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3859.jpg

But better higher up . . .

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3861.jpg

I also checked various areas of the main stringers and those too showed 12-15% moisture, which is what I've found to be typical of encapsulated wood.

I did some finish cutting of the rear bulkhead. Here is the cut-out area and the intersecting surface of the center engine stringer.

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3880.jpg

The outer plywood of the center stringer looked a bit dark, so I may do some 'chemotherapy' treatment of the wood to prevent deterioration.

I also cut away the shower bilge mounting plate, as I will need that area to tab in the new bulkhead. Notice the crack that I found in the lower face of the stringer, indicating the moisture absorption. I may cut the fiberglass skin off in order to get a better look at the wood inside.

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3882.jpg

Last year, I exposed the side of this stringer to get a look at the wood, and it was fairly dark to about 6" up. So, early signs of progression there.

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_2067.jpg

After a few months of exposure last year, the wood had showed some improvement . . .

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_2212.jpg

So, I will have to see what the forward face of it looks like.

I started the paint striping of the fuel tank yesterday, and will probably finish that today.

I also took some time to do some measurement of the foam chambers throughout the hull, since everything is pretty well exposed. I calculated the volume of flotation to be about 67 cubic feet, including the fuel tank volume. (so, I'll add the weight of the fuel in my further calculations)

I am considering adding some flotation to the structure before I button things up. So, knowing how much is there to begin with is a factor and consideration as to how much I should try to add.

Here is my flotation calculations from my F-330 web site (for those interested):
http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...Flotation.html

I had figured that the materials in the boat would displace about 79 cubic feet, based on their density, and the 67 cubic feet of 'flotation' would bring the total displacement up to 146 cubic feet, which is about 9,100 lbs of water. So, the boat is close to being able to float. The bare boat, without fuel in it would probably float, but with the fuel in would probably not.

Anyway, a bit of an aside from my bulkhead work, but since the boat is all opened up, it is a good opportunity to do a bunch of things on my 'list' of improvements.

Morning tpenfield, there is a lot going on with your project. Won't be long before it's boat-n-water time. Doing a great job and thanks for the Pics on all the sites.

I briefly looked at your floatation calculations and noticed you used the dry weight at 8900, the new 310 is 9700. Is your 330 that much lighter?

Yes, the first few years of the 330 were spec'd at 8900 lbs. then the weight was increased to 9700 lbs, probably due to the radar arch and some other goodies being added along the way.

I might be in a pinch to get all the work done before my normal launching time. We will see how it goes. I also have some outdrive maintenance ahead of me.

Fuel Tank Paint Preparation Update:

I did some work on the fuel tank this weekend. Previously, I had applied paint remover to the tank and it did a pretty good job of loosening the paint. Then, I did some wet sanding to take off some of the more stubborn areas.

Here are a few pictures of the tank.

Top surface and the fittings . . .
http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3926.jpg

Forward End of the tank . . .
http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3928.jpg

Bottom side of the tank . . .
http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3938.jpg

Here is a video of the day . . . checking out the inside of the tank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiTk2coBTOg The inside surfaces of the tank, to the extent that I could see, looked very good . . . basically like new. I just need some warmer weather so that I can paint the tank. It might have to wait a month or so.

Looking real good. You do excellent work

Thanks, AllDodge.

I have been experimenting with various household chemicals and cleaning agents to see if I can remove all of the oxide and get the tank surfaces back to shiny aluminum. I used my wire wheel on some of the worse areas, but I want to avoid using it on the milder oxidation areas (mostly discoloration)

After some web searches, I finally came across "Aluminum Jelly" which is a companion product to the more popular "Naval Jelly". Anybody try that stuff before ??? I have not seen it in stores, so I may have to buy it over the Internet.

Never heard of the stuff, hope someone has used it and can advise

Here is a reproduction of the fuel tank label that I made. The original label got trashed, but fortunately, I had a picture of the label to work from.

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3940.jpg

This label will have to wait until the tank is re-painted.

Yea, I had not heard of it either. Supposedly has phosphoric acid, similar to Naval Jelly.

Man your good, with all the details. All I can saw is WOW your the dude

Thanks, AllDodge.

Here is the picture of the label that I started with. It was a little rough . . .

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...lTankLabel.jpg

It took me a while to clean it up using various graphics editing programs, etc.

Big weekend with the bulkhead project . . . of course things have expanded a bit beyond the bulkhead at this point.

I got some aluminum cleaning & prep supplies in town at the local hardware store.

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3943.jpg

I used "Aluminum Jelly" to remove any remaining oxidation from the tank surfaces.

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3944.jpg

I also cut into the sole of the storage compartment that is just forward of the fuel tank bay. My thoughts have been that there may be water beneath the flooring that has been 'wicking' into the forward fuel bay bulkhead. Sure enough, I found a fair amount of water and the substructure is starting to rot.

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3962.jpg

I removed the foam and opened things up a bit.

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3970.jpg

Here is a picture of most of the storage compartment decking removed.

http://home.comcast.net/~tpenfield/F...s/IMG_3989.jpg

I decided to replace the sub-structure and the decking. I'll have to let things dry out pretty well first. Space is tight in the storage compartment, so cutting out the ribs and cross members is a bit tough. I may need to get a cutting wheel for my high speed drill. . . might work better than the sawzall.

The cabin bulkhead has a fair amount of moisture in the lower portion where it meets the storage compartment sub-structure. Moisture readings of this bulkhead are fairly low just a few inches up from the floor. So, I think that I will stop at this bulkhead (the cabin bulkhead) and apply some E.G treatment to the lower portion.

If I replace the carpet in the main cabin at some point, I can do a core sample for moisture in that section of the sole.

The good news (if there is any good news) is that I am getting to this fairly early in its progression.

Wow! This is a big project. Thank you for keeping us up to day with Photos! I have be fallowing this post 1

This project seems to get bigger, but your doing the right thing catching it early. On a positive note the weather is looking better.