2005 Formula 330 SS, Volvo 8.1 w/ B3 conversion questions
01-31-2014, 10:09 AM
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2005 Formula 330 SS, Volvo 8.1 w/ B3 conversion questions
Good day all.
First post on this forum! I was referred by a good friend and Formula owner, and I have a few critical tech questions for you guys (and gals)
I want a 330 SS badly, and have been looking for quite some time. Most are spec'd out pretty good with the range of Merc Power and B3 drives...... HOWEVER, the boat I want most right now (because of its' condition and spec) has a conversion that's raised a few questions. The boat has twin Volvo 8.1's that have been both been replaced (120 and 420 hrs respectively). The XDP composite drives were replaced with MERC B3 drives. Here's what I know from questions I have asked:
1 - Both engines were replaced due to an apparent known Oil Cooler issue with these Volvos (according to Broker);
2 - The XDP drives were replaced (assume failure) by owners choice with Merc B3 drives;
What I need to know to get me started:
1 - First off, I NEED to know why I am seeing so many engine replacements (both Mercs and Volvos) in these boats?
2 - Is there truth to this apparent "Oil Cooler" issue with these Volvos? If so, how would I know if it's been rectified with the replacement
3 - What should I look for regarding issues with these engines if any?
4 - Are there any thoughts or potential issues with the pairing of the Volvo/Merc B3 combo? I'm assuming currently it's been done by professionals. A lot of people on another forum are telling me to stay away because something smells. LOL.
This should get us started.
I really look forward to any thoughts, feed back, tech info or opinions anyone might have. Hopefully some 330 owners can chime in here to get that first hand experience.
Thanks in advance!
Cheers!
Ross
First post on this forum! I was referred by a good friend and Formula owner, and I have a few critical tech questions for you guys (and gals)
I want a 330 SS badly, and have been looking for quite some time. Most are spec'd out pretty good with the range of Merc Power and B3 drives...... HOWEVER, the boat I want most right now (because of its' condition and spec) has a conversion that's raised a few questions. The boat has twin Volvo 8.1's that have been both been replaced (120 and 420 hrs respectively). The XDP composite drives were replaced with MERC B3 drives. Here's what I know from questions I have asked:
1 - Both engines were replaced due to an apparent known Oil Cooler issue with these Volvos (according to Broker);
2 - The XDP drives were replaced (assume failure) by owners choice with Merc B3 drives;
What I need to know to get me started:
1 - First off, I NEED to know why I am seeing so many engine replacements (both Mercs and Volvos) in these boats?
2 - Is there truth to this apparent "Oil Cooler" issue with these Volvos? If so, how would I know if it's been rectified with the replacement
3 - What should I look for regarding issues with these engines if any?
4 - Are there any thoughts or potential issues with the pairing of the Volvo/Merc B3 combo? I'm assuming currently it's been done by professionals. A lot of people on another forum are telling me to stay away because something smells. LOL.
This should get us started.
I really look forward to any thoughts, feed back, tech info or opinions anyone might have. Hopefully some 330 owners can chime in here to get that first hand experience.
Thanks in advance!
Cheers!
Ross
01-31-2014, 11:45 AM
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Ross,
Here is what I can offer up as a Volvo Penta owner in a non-performance boat.
1. The XDP drives were problematic from the start. Lots of problems with seals and bellows. Volvo was not the most forthright in taking care of the problems. The previous owner probably wanted to get away from the drives and bit the bullet to put new transom assemblies and drives in the boat. Obviously, they must have also changed the bell housings and few other necessities to make it work.
2. The Volvo Penta fuel cells are problematic - You can't miss the assembly on the upper starboard side of the engine and contain the fuel filter, a low pressure and a high pressure pump. Do searches on the web and you will find all kinds of misery about this units failing every hundred or so hours... and if the low pressure pump fails, you are buying a whole new fuel cell at approximately $700 per unit.
3. I am unfamiliar with an "oil cooler" issue, but Volvo had problems with the oil lines going from the engine block to the remote filter failing where the fittings are crimped to the hose. There apparently was a service campaign / silent recall on these. Volvo owned up only when someone brought in their boat with a locked up engine after the line blew apart.
3. Exhaust manifolds fail chronically at the wet joint to the riser and the risers have sensors for overheat in them. Don't know if you can swap to Mercruiser stuff with these..
4. Parts are more expensive if it is branded "Volvo Penta" and they are not as readily available as Mercruiser parts. Some Merc stuff can be used on the Volvo, other stuff can not. Service manuals and Technical Service Bulletins are harder to obtain as well. With Mercruiser, it seems most of the Factory Service Manuals and Bulletins are floating around out on the web.
Knowing what I do now, I would not buy anything that has a Volvo Penta gasoline drivetrain. Stick with tried and true Mercruiser.
On a different note, I did not know that a lot of engines are being replaced in the Formula 330 SS boats. Perhaps someone can chime in on that.
Here is what I can offer up as a Volvo Penta owner in a non-performance boat.
1. The XDP drives were problematic from the start. Lots of problems with seals and bellows. Volvo was not the most forthright in taking care of the problems. The previous owner probably wanted to get away from the drives and bit the bullet to put new transom assemblies and drives in the boat. Obviously, they must have also changed the bell housings and few other necessities to make it work.
2. The Volvo Penta fuel cells are problematic - You can't miss the assembly on the upper starboard side of the engine and contain the fuel filter, a low pressure and a high pressure pump. Do searches on the web and you will find all kinds of misery about this units failing every hundred or so hours... and if the low pressure pump fails, you are buying a whole new fuel cell at approximately $700 per unit.
3. I am unfamiliar with an "oil cooler" issue, but Volvo had problems with the oil lines going from the engine block to the remote filter failing where the fittings are crimped to the hose. There apparently was a service campaign / silent recall on these. Volvo owned up only when someone brought in their boat with a locked up engine after the line blew apart.
3. Exhaust manifolds fail chronically at the wet joint to the riser and the risers have sensors for overheat in them. Don't know if you can swap to Mercruiser stuff with these..
4. Parts are more expensive if it is branded "Volvo Penta" and they are not as readily available as Mercruiser parts. Some Merc stuff can be used on the Volvo, other stuff can not. Service manuals and Technical Service Bulletins are harder to obtain as well. With Mercruiser, it seems most of the Factory Service Manuals and Bulletins are floating around out on the web.
Knowing what I do now, I would not buy anything that has a Volvo Penta gasoline drivetrain. Stick with tried and true Mercruiser.
On a different note, I did not know that a lot of engines are being replaced in the Formula 330 SS boats. Perhaps someone can chime in on that.
01-31-2014, 07:02 PM
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Ross,
Here is what I can offer up as a Volvo Penta owner in a non-performance boat.
1. The XDP drives were problematic from the start. Lots of problems with seals and bellows. Volvo was not the most forthright in taking care of the problems. The previous owner probably wanted to get away from the drives and bit the bullet to put new transom assemblies and drives in the boat. Obviously, they must have also changed the bell housings and few other necessities to make it work.
2. The Volvo Penta fuel cells are problematic - You can't miss the assembly on the upper starboard side of the engine and contain the fuel filter, a low pressure and a high pressure pump. Do searches on the web and you will find all kinds of misery about this units failing every hundred or so hours... and if the low pressure pump fails, you are buying a whole new fuel cell at approximately $700 per unit.
3. I am unfamiliar with an "oil cooler" issue, but Volvo had problems with the oil lines going from the engine block to the remote filter failing where the fittings are crimped to the hose. There apparently was a service campaign / silent recall on these. Volvo owned up only when someone brought in their boat with a locked up engine after the line blew apart.
3. Exhaust manifolds fail chronically at the wet joint to the riser and the risers have sensors for overheat in them. Don't know if you can swap to Mercruiser stuff with these..
4. Parts are more expensive if it is branded "Volvo Penta" and they are not as readily available as Mercruiser parts. Some Merc stuff can be used on the Volvo, other stuff can not. Service manuals and Technical Service Bulletins are harder to obtain as well. With Mercruiser, it seems most of the Factory Service Manuals and Bulletins are floating around out on the web.
Knowing what I do now, I would not buy anything that has a Volvo Penta gasoline drivetrain. Stick with tried and true Mercruiser.
On a different note, I did not know that a lot of engines are being replaced in the Formula 330 SS boats. Perhaps someone can chime in on that.
Here is what I can offer up as a Volvo Penta owner in a non-performance boat.
1. The XDP drives were problematic from the start. Lots of problems with seals and bellows. Volvo was not the most forthright in taking care of the problems. The previous owner probably wanted to get away from the drives and bit the bullet to put new transom assemblies and drives in the boat. Obviously, they must have also changed the bell housings and few other necessities to make it work.
2. The Volvo Penta fuel cells are problematic - You can't miss the assembly on the upper starboard side of the engine and contain the fuel filter, a low pressure and a high pressure pump. Do searches on the web and you will find all kinds of misery about this units failing every hundred or so hours... and if the low pressure pump fails, you are buying a whole new fuel cell at approximately $700 per unit.
3. I am unfamiliar with an "oil cooler" issue, but Volvo had problems with the oil lines going from the engine block to the remote filter failing where the fittings are crimped to the hose. There apparently was a service campaign / silent recall on these. Volvo owned up only when someone brought in their boat with a locked up engine after the line blew apart.
3. Exhaust manifolds fail chronically at the wet joint to the riser and the risers have sensors for overheat in them. Don't know if you can swap to Mercruiser stuff with these..
4. Parts are more expensive if it is branded "Volvo Penta" and they are not as readily available as Mercruiser parts. Some Merc stuff can be used on the Volvo, other stuff can not. Service manuals and Technical Service Bulletins are harder to obtain as well. With Mercruiser, it seems most of the Factory Service Manuals and Bulletins are floating around out on the web.
Knowing what I do now, I would not buy anything that has a Volvo Penta gasoline drivetrain. Stick with tried and true Mercruiser.
On a different note, I did not know that a lot of engines are being replaced in the Formula 330 SS boats. Perhaps someone can chime in on that.
Regarding the engine replacements............. I might have said 40% above which probably a little high, but in all honesty when looking on the web, I've seen about 3 out of every 10 boats have had engine replacements or issues. I'm looking at the 2003-2006 range.
Thanks again for taking the time to respond with the above info.
Moving on............. One more question for the road. Aside from the obvious power differential of the 6.2 VS the 8.1's, top end speed, fuel consumption etc, is one more proven than the other in these boats?
Regards,
Ross
01-31-2014, 10:46 PM
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Swapping out the XDP's was a good thing, but usually they swapped for the standard Duo Prop drives, with some assistance from Volvo. It is unlikely a hacker would have the ability to swap that drive set up so likely it was dome right and should be fine, as long as you are not keeping it in the water (some B3s have corrosion issues if left in water). I don't know of any oil cooler problem, but I bet the engines failed from water in the oil, due to leaking exhaust manifold, the Volvo manifolds are absolute junk, a good tech around here actually machines NEW ones before installing to get a good seal. They would be the first thing I would swap out.
01-31-2014, 10:49 PM
#5
Oh, sorry, the 6.2 boat will run about 50 all out and cruise 35ish, the 8.1 can go about 57-60 and cruise about 40. These boats can see huge drops in speed because people load them with all kinds of stuff like a cruiser.
If you are going to be boating on big water, you need to sea trial the boat in it, they are the roughest riding hull I think Formula ever made, too wide for the beam and deadrise. It is a great lake boat.
If you are going to be boating on big water, you need to sea trial the boat in it, they are the roughest riding hull I think Formula ever made, too wide for the beam and deadrise. It is a great lake boat.
02-01-2014, 05:41 AM
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Hey Ross:
Welcome to OSO . . . lots of Formula guys on this forum and a great place to 'hang out' to hear about Formula boats.
Keep up your search for a 330SS, it is a great boat, I am sure you will find something.
Welcome to OSO . . . lots of Formula guys on this forum and a great place to 'hang out' to hear about Formula boats.
Keep up your search for a 330SS, it is a great boat, I am sure you will find something.
02-03-2014, 10:52 AM
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Swapping out the XDP's was a good thing, but usually they swapped for the standard Duo Prop drives, with some assistance from Volvo. It is unlikely a hacker would have the ability to swap that drive set up so likely it was dome right and should be fine, as long as you are not keeping it in the water (some B3s have corrosion issues if left in water). I don't know of any oil cooler problem, but I bet the engines failed from water in the oil, due to leaking exhaust manifold, the Volvo manifolds are absolute junk, a good tech around here actually machines NEW ones before installing to get a good seal. They would be the first thing I would swap out.
Keep looking Ross, there has to be better pickings than that one.
Last edited by Br1dgemann; 02-03-2014 at 10:55 AM.
02-03-2014, 01:42 PM
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Oh, sorry, the 6.2 boat will run about 50 all out and cruise 35ish, the 8.1 can go about 57-60 and cruise about 40. These boats can see huge drops in speed because people load them with all kinds of stuff like a cruiser.
If you are going to be boating on big water, you need to sea trial the boat in it, they are the roughest riding hull I think Formula ever made, too wide for the beam and deadrise. It is a great lake boat.
If you are going to be boating on big water, you need to sea trial the boat in it, they are the roughest riding hull I think Formula ever made, too wide for the beam and deadrise. It is a great lake boat.
The Formula Spec sheet says the Merc 496 with B3 tops at 55-58mph. (Same for the Volvo 8.1 with XDP) There are quite a few available out there.
Last edited by Pilotpete; 02-03-2014 at 02:02 PM.
02-03-2014, 03:26 PM
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As a current 330 owner with an 8.1, I'm not sure I'm with you. I don't have a ton of stuff loaded on mine. A 3000 rpm cruise gives you just over 30kts. Top out in the low 50's (kts). And that's without a ton of gas and bodies on board. You're right, beam slows the boat down a bit, but the ride isn't all that bad (to me). It's a great boat for entertaining with a huge deck space to hang out.
The Formula Spec sheet says the Merc 496 with B3 tops at 55-58mph. (Same for the Volvo 8.1 with XDP) There are quite a few available out there.
The Formula Spec sheet says the Merc 496 with B3 tops at 55-58mph. (Same for the Volvo 8.1 with XDP) There are quite a few available out there.
02-03-2014, 03:50 PM
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Actually both our numbers are fairly similar. And my experience has been on the later model 2004-2005 boats with the arch and slightly different trim levels than yours. I don't think the boat has a horrible ride, but even the Formula reps admitted that it is not a great rough water boat (which virtually all other Formulas are). It is a great party boat and I have spent many good times aboard them, but I would still recommend a sea trial before purchase. One of my friends came from a Sonic 31 to a 330, and was quite disappointed at the ride quality. But it is all a matter of degrees.
As for the ride, I like my cars tight and like to feel actually what is going on with the car. So I imagine I like a slightly different ride than most...
