Dave I was not implying that YOU oh great Picasso of Fiberglass needed the help. I was interested if Formula offered to help in the process. Mostly I was thinking the other guys or if I had called them for example. I am currently trying to get an answer on the Plexus question you and I had talked about but the more I think about it that will not work with the way that you and I have talked about doing our repairs (based on my reading of different white papers anyhow).

Interesting to note that your liner is quite different then the one in the 353. Looking at that and Chris' i cant imagine how big of a pain in the azz it is to lay up in the mold. I was surprised to see how thick it was in some areas as i was cutting it out but further down the road i noticed some of those areas that were upwards of a half inch thick were nothing more then chop mat and maybe three layers of 1808 or some kinda uni glass and LOTS lots resin. The liners have a very inconsistent build in the complex areas where several features meet, what i found was lots of air voids and many "cut to fit on the fly" pieces plopped in a mold without much attention to detail . . . .

oh i know Jon, actually when i re read my post i saw it kinda sounded like i was directing it back toward you when neither of us were directing anything towards anybody . . . err . . .something like that lol. . i figured I'd chat with ya and straighten it out later :D . . . .

Just a little levity to keep Chris and I from finding the closest tree with a large branch to hang ourselves from!

Or going POSTAL....:waffen093:....lol.

ok well I have no stake in the game here but everyone knows how I support Formula because of the support I have received, but let me be clear my stuff was small potatoes compared to this,

My thought is this, the OP was clearly not looking for a handout, but help in this, help in the way of opinions, options, a simple sense of direction, As I sit on the outside watching this evolve and a CLEAR attempt bye the OP not to turn this into a bash all on Formula I surely expected those results from Formula in that form, I am very disappointed at the response according to OP. When I first read this I decided anything less then a hands on "look" was a clear disappointment, I believe Glassdave is within a reasonable distance from the factory to send someone out, and I can clearly see Dave has his process in check and a plan. while this boat is older IT IS not "OLD" in boat terms, and is the "SAME" as a current model in production, and I would think someone at Formula would be like holy crap we should at the minimum go out and look if Dave and the owner is willing to show us, maybe there is a issue here that we can address on our current boats for overall improvement of our brand.

As mentioned above the PR would be priceless.

Well said...

Chris

thanks I actually tried to sound intelligent LOL

The not helping out is what gets me. In fairness I have not reached out so I can not speak to the fact but I have no reason to believe that Chris would not be truthful.

It is an unfortunate situation, but as everyone has said it's a liability issue on Formula's end. Anybody with even a sliver of common sense and rational thought can see they screwed up the build on these particular boats. Instead of sending the boats to the chipper themselves, they put a band-aid on and hoped they would outlast the warranty, which they did. If they had any class they would offer to cover the cost of materials at least for the boats that obviously were sent out the door defective. Regardless if it has been 10, 17 or 27 years after production. Bottom line is they didn't know what they were doing, when they built the boat, or just flat out didn't give a hoot then either.

I would be interested in seeing some pictures of the superstructure forward of the rear bulkhead, if access and time allows. I'm curious as to why the issue was only in the engine room, or is that the only area Formula uses a liner? Is the rest of the boat built with conventional stringers/construction?

Has any manufacturer perfected the liner construction method? And is there really any way to know for sure a positive, secure bond has been made, when the liner itself prevents inspection after construction? We've all seen Baja didn't get the liner boats right from the start but it seemed like they sorted out the issues after some time, I suppose later model Formula's came out better as well after they learned from their mistakes...