"Chillin The Most" gets a make over - No longer Chillin
 

Well as some of you know, Wendy and I had a bit of an issue with Chillin last summer. Not actually summer since we only got to run it 7 times from when we purchased it. Our last run was May 30th 2015. Story goes like this.... Ran the boat to Cambridge, MD for a weekend at the Hyatt to celebrate my gorgeous wife's birthday with a group of friends. Some of which rode along in the boat and others drove themselves there for a weekend of fun in the sun....great food, pool, golf, spa, great meals, tons of laughs. Left at 1030am on Friday morning out of our Marina in Pasadena, MD. Took the scenic route through Kent Narrows, down Eastern Bay to the Choptank river. Water was flat the entire run. Full sunshine. Nice easy run. Don't think we ever went faster than 50MPH. Arrived at the Hyatt's marina and docked the boat. Had some beers on the docks admiring our boat. listening to music, enjoying laughter with friends all the while a storm is brewing...[ATTACH=CONFIG]551900[/ATTACH]. The boat sat all weekend in its slip. Sunday morning after a weekend of tearing it up with friends and sporting the major hangover it was time to run the boat back home to Pasadena. Water reports were good with exception that winds were up directly from the south at 15-20MPH pushing the water straight up the Chesapeake Bay. The report showed 2-3 footers. No big deal. Got out of the Choptank river with our heading due North. By the time we got to the mouth of Eastern Bay the waters were now tightly stacked 4 footers with some considerably large holes. Typical Bay waters. We were running with them. Piece of cake. We were running at 55MPH and boat was a dream. First time I had her in any water to speak of. Boat was purring. Staying right on top, no slamming, absolutely awesome....Size matters. Big difference than our previous 26' Scarab. Looked back at Wendy as she was sitting with her girlfriend Michelle in the back seat. Michelle's husband Chad up front enjoying the wind in his face. Wendy had a huge smile on her face. She stands up to the back of my bolster seat and says "I am so happy we bought this boat. No more getting beat up. The ride is amazing. Can we go faster?" When do you not do what your wife asks...LOL. Of course we go faster. As we get under the Chesapeake Bay bridge continuing our heading North we start letting the boat stretch its legs. As I can hear the girls in the back seat laughing enjoying themselves, I review gauges and see that we are running at 85MPH. WOW, I think. This thing is amazing. I am on top of the world. Beautiful wife, amazing daughter, successful business, awesome boat, the luxury to do what we want...life is GOOD!!!

Now the NIGHTMARE !!!. AS previously mentioned major hangover. What better for a hangover...that's right more beer !!! We removed all belongings from the boat and the girls went home. Chad and I stay at the marina to wash the boat and put it to bed till the next time. We of course first flushed the motors. Have some beers, which truthfully were not making me feel better...lol. Once we finished flushing the motors I told Chad we were done and going home. I would come back tomorrow afternoon and wash the boat. I had enough...time to go home. Covered the boat up and left. Well, two days later I finally get time to get to marina...start washing the boat from our weekend of fun. The norm, inside, outside, bottom.... Well I notice a crack in the bilge area.[ATTACH=CONFIG]551895[/ATTACH]. I figure its just a surface crack on the liner NO BIG DEAL. Tend to it in the Fall when I pull the motors for the winter. Then I find this on the bottom..[ATTACH=CONFIG]551896[/ATTACH]. Crack line showing on the hull bottom roughly 2' forward of the crack in the bilge area. Both just on the far back portion of the hull. Well this is not good. I proceed to have several "experts" look at the issue...These freakin people are idiots...Experts. MY ASS. I proceed to remove the motors because was told it could be catastrophic if we run the boat in its present condition. NICE, there goes the freakin summer, all the poker run plans that we had already paid for...I'M PISSED. WTF, all this money for this boat supposed to be in perfect condition...what the hell has happened. I can only imagine what it will cost to fix this thing. It needs to be repaired. Boat goes to an "expert" in Annapolis, MD. (don't use this guy...lol). After a month of him going thru the boat, taking tons of photos,[ATTACH=CONFIG]551897[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]551898[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]551899[/ATTACH] emailing back and forth with the folks at Formula, no one has an answer. The Expert says it will could cost $50K to fix...Formula says nothing !!! Go figure. Finally Formula offers..."bring the boat to us and for $90 an hour we will find out whats wrong with the boat and go from there. Not happening... Well I've already paid the EXPERT over $1300.00 to give me zero answers....The only thing I was told is that it appears possibly that the boat has possible delamination issues, oil canning, etc, etc, etc. As I said, no answers...just guessing. Well now I am not paying $50k to fix it. I'll patch and sell or sink it.... Boat comes back to the house....As it sits on the trailer and makes me want to vomit everytime I see it. I eventually contact Dave Sikorski (AKA Glassdave). Dave and I speak and send him all the photos. We come up with a plan. Dave is kind enough to make it one of his winter projects. Now I feel a bit better. I am going to get it fixed properly by a true EXPERT, I am going to completely gut this boat. New paint, new cockpit interior, new rigging, fresh powdering coating, new GPS the works. DO NOT WANT THE BOAT AS IT IS. We are changing its name the whole 9 yards.

Now its November 14th. Tow the boat to Dave's shop in Ohio. The process is starting...[ATTACH=CONFIG]551901[/ATTACH]. Dave gets into it, guts the interior out, removes all the bilge rigging, starts his cutting and grinding and figures out that when manufactured, Formula forgot to make sure that the plexus liner was completely install to the bottom of the stringers. There had been a 1/2" gap from the bottom of the hull and the stringers.This had allowed the boat for 15 years to "oil can" or "flex" within the bilge area which in turn showed its ugly face on my clock....[ATTACH=CONFIG]551902[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]551903[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]551904[/ATTACH] For those of you that know this boat, she had been handled with kid gloves by previous owner. We had the boat surveyed. There were zero signs of abuse....hardly, the boat was documented all over this sight, was a token Fastech for Formula. We and the previous owner had no idea. ...(I have additional photos from what Dave found that I am unable to upload right now for some reason)..Anyways, the boat is getting fixed....I will post additional photos of the plexus liner issue and others...the boat stripped of its factory paint job, etc. later. I am NOT going to share any renderings of the new paint scheme nor of interior, etc. All those will come when she is finished. I am also not sharing its new name...USCG Documentation paper work is being processed for new name, things are going along nicely. Dave sees light at the end of the tunnel, XT-Innovations is working on the interior and we are getting excited to have a brand new boat. Kinda funny when I told Wendy that we were not buying another project boat...WTF !!!!...lol

To be continued.....


Chris

Photos below are of the stringer showing the gap from the bottom hull, plexus liner that you can see has a hole worn it the corner from its shifting for 15 years, a outline photo to place where damage relate inside to outside and the boat with no factory paint left......[ATTACH=CONFIG]551907[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]551908[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]551909[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]551910[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]551911[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]551912[/ATTACH]

More to come.....

Chris

What I forgot to mention is...there is NO stringer damage to the boat at all. We are actually completely structurally sound. Dave checked every inch of the boat. The bilge area is the only problem area. The cause of the damage is due to the improper installation of the plexus...left a gap at the base of the stringers allowing the boat to "flex" - "oil can" causing the cracks. We would assume that quality control at Formula missed this one...Thanks Formula... Wait till you see this thing when finished....Thought "Chillin The Most" was nice...


Chris

Can't wait to finally get some runs in and some raft ups with you guys this summer! Glad things are finally going well for you as I've seen how stressed out you've been (shows in your golf game....kidding). Can't wait to see the final product, brother!

Thanks Brad. Stress was an understatement. Speaking of golf, we need to go do that soon...:ernaehrung004:

Damm. I know you told me you had some structural problems and that Dave was fixing them Chris, but I didn't think they were that bad. Good that you brought it to the right person and hope you have a better season than last. I'm sure Dave won't disappoint you.

Just curious if you have shown Formula Daves findings and if they have said anything about it? Doubt it but still wondering....and your in good hands with Glassdave :D He would be fist on my list for such a repair as well.
Good luck with the soon to be new boat :)

Wally, Am certainly sharing the findings with Formula. Unfortunately I really do not see them doing anything to help us out...They are quick to say that the hull warranty is expired...true it is but you < Formula> did not complete due diligence when completing the manufacturing process of this particular boat. We will see what happens. I will certainly keep all informed of what we find out.

Chris

Heck of a story, you wouldn't expect that from Formula.
I'd be politely keeping them well informed, she's way out of warranty but something like this might have them thinking. Sounds like you'll get a nice 'new' boat, maybe Formula will do some customer relations work and help somewhere. Keep pushing, nothing to lose.

Good luck.

RR

Polite email has been sent with all documentation. We hope that Formula gives us a pleasant response but not expecting it. We will see what happens. Lord knows we certainly never expected this from Formula. Thanks for the encouraging words RR.

Chris

Wow, sorry to hear of your troubles, but you will have piece of mind that every inch of that hull has been gone through. That's great the stringers are solid, that would have really $ucked. Looking forward to seeing your custom 353 when completed! Sounds like it is going to be awesome.

I always felt like the hull layup and finish on the formulas was awesome, but this scares me. I guess every manufacture has an issue every now and then. Hopefully this was an exception not the norm.

yea i wouldn't expect Formula to bend over backwards to help because of the age...but on the other hand it would be nice gesture for a customer service "good will" offer on their part considering the nature of the defect not being done right from the get-go :) .....we do that quite often here where i work if the customers are nice to us from the start.....like my wife says...kill them with kindness and they wont have any excuses to say no :D

Received a very prompt response from Scott Smith at Formula of the email I sent. Of course, his response says "that there is nothing he can do because of the boats age"...(already knew this)...He has sent all the photos to department supervisor and lamination specialist. He's not certain that the photos will conclusively prove our case. Department heads are out on the road presently and he will get back to me when he hears from them. Scott is stand up guy. I've never met him in person but since we found out about our boats issue, he has always been polite and prompt to stay in touch. Hoping for the best without expectation...

I want everyone to be very clear on what my intentions are for making this public....
1) I am NOT bad mouthing Formula.
2) I am merely trying to make Formula and the public aware of a problem that arose on our boat. Is this common across all 1999 353 Fastechs...definitely not.
3) I feel that not only Formula but all brands..(that are actually still in business) know of past issues, take a hard look at what caused the problem, make an effort to correct it in the best interest of not only their clients but the company.
4) I want all Formula owners to know what we are dealing with, how we've gone about researching the root cause, how we are dealing with it to make the proper repairs and most importantly educating ALL (owners and manufactures) of these type of events.

What I did not share with everyone is how Glassdave is repairing the boat. He's obviously removed all the bad "plexus" from the bilge area. He is making a custom hull liner that will fit tightly and correctly under the stringers....what the "plexus" was supposed to do. He also is engineering a custom one of a kind inner stringer that he will place inside the center stringer to add to the boats strength. As this area is where the boat has its most beating, he is now making this boat virtually indestructible...lol.....TBD, lets see how many beers "Chris" can have to break it again...just kidding.... :lolhit:. I hope that Dave has the time to chime in on this thread and share his expertise with what he's doing.

I feel rejuvenated. The excitement to have a totally custom one of a kind 353 Fastech is totally cool. Was never the original plan when we bought it from AXA but I guess all things happen for a reason....some day I'll find out what that reason is...lol . I look forward to sharing future photos with everyone and of course its new name. I look forward to folks seeing it at coming events and the feed back on the changes we made. I assure you of this...IT's GOIN TO BE KICKA$$.... Thought "Chillin" was blinged out....NOT even close...Sorry Big Brother (AXA)


Chris

I am not licensed to practice law in Maryland, but Maryland does have something called the discovery rule, which says the statute of limitations does not begin to run until the Plaintiff knows or should have known about the negligence. The other issue is something called the statute of repose, which after a certain time, in Texas for example 15 years, the claim is barred. If you are serious, and or it involved a lot of money, like more than $25K, you might contact a local attorney, also Formula is headquartered in Indiana so you might be able to apply their law if it is more favorable.

I don't think any of the postings have alluded to bashing Formula in any way...at least nothing that i have taken away from any of the postings thus far.... There is no doubt that Formula builds some nice boats...i had the pleasure of getting a tour of their facility a number of years back, and it is impressive. Well worth it if anyone gets the opportunity. :)
That being said....if it were me running the show at formula i think that i would at least offer to pay for half of the repairs for that section of the boat that failed.....and i only say half because the boat did survive without any issues until this point so you cant directly say that any one thing caused the issues......could have been the driving styles and water conditions that caused the failure and it may have happened regardless of the plexus being there or not....any other mods you are doing would be on your dime....and i'd have you sign a release that nothing else would held against the company and that its not an admittance of fault etc....you know they typical lawyer stuff ;) :D Not twisting any arms or guilting anyone into anything and of course its not my company.... just a keyboard jockey posting here :D

Wow. At least you will be all fixed up soon!

For future owners of people who want to purchase older formulas, how do you spot this before buying the boat? Obviously you didnt use your boat much at all before it cracked.

It will be impossible to spot anything such as this. There we no signs anywhere visible...when we did the full walk thru, had it surveyed, brought it home from NY (boat went straight into indoor winter storage and spent all winter climbing thru the entire thing...every inch) or after the first 6 runs in the boat. This issue was manifesting itself for 15 years...then BOOM...shows up after the weekend in Cambridge. I wish I could specifically tell all what to look for. I assure all that the previous owner had this boat completely apart several times during all the updating that he had done and never once did he ever see any signs of issues. As like any used boat purchase, its a risk.

Chris

I will be in the market mid summer, (Formula 311). Reading your story is very scary. If you dont mind me asking, what does something like this cost to repair? Thanks for the quick answer!

As Dave would say, sounds like its "gonna be bomber"!

Well, as most know, I was the previous owner of this boat. I made it a point to come down for the first launch last spring and get Chris comfortable behind the wheel of his new to him boat. I was completely blown away when Chris first contacted me last year. We had several conversations between us and with Formula. The first "expert" was, well, I'll play nice...Wrong. He caused undo stress on both Chris and myself.

Now that Glassdave is on it, I feel much better. Knowing that there is no structural damage to the boat is the important part and the rest is more or less cosmetic. That's the good news.

Now onto you Chris...It is a sickness. Welcome to the club! It won't end here, don't think that it will. You have a great platform to take this Formula to the next level of "Bling". I know you are a classy guy and will upgrade accordingly and with respect.

I am truly sorry that you had to go thru this. I wish there had been signs of something wrong before you bought it so we could have figured something out prior to the sale. I wouldn't wish this upon anyone. I'll stay by your side and support you all that I can, and we will see what Formula may or may not do.

Dave

Chris...read this entire post and I can imagine the anxiety you have had over this...hell I felt it reading it after owning 4 Formulas over the past 35 years.

I will say that you are handling this issue the way men handle any adversity..like men !! Kudos to you brother..Hold your head up and look like a champion. Remember...real character is measured in how one deals with the down side of life...anyone can deal with the upside.It takes strong character to deal with adversity.

Can't wait to see how she looks when your done.

Wow, sorry to hear about this! Sounds like she will be back better than ever! Was there anything wrong with the current vinyl or does it just not match the new colors? Sucks they will probably have to cut it up to make good replacements, people would pay for it if it was in good shape!

Well this is a heck of a story. I feel for you. But it sure looks like you have it under control. Good luck, and hopefully we will be seeing pictures of a totally renovated bird.

LC

Best of luck. Can't wait to see the after.

Did the surveyor have anything to say on the subject?

-Dave

I can not imagine, kudo's to you for handling it well and in perspective, I have alotta faith in Formula, Honestly, hater's be hating, but they've always treated me very well with my 20+ yr old boats, I'm sure there interested as well, especially with there reputation of withstanding time, it would be very hard to tell what up based on pics, but i'm sure someone there has a idea on things

My PM inbox is cleared now...sorry to those that tried sending messages.

Chris

Interior was fine...a bit yellowed in spots just from sunscreen over the years but was really in good shape. Changing it because I want a total clean slate...I know kinda stupid but if not all new then I would have bad memories...boat needed to be completely different.

Surveyor did have something to say..."I did not see anything to that effect"....lol They do not carry insurance so you have no recourse against them.

Going to have to look at mine a lot closer now since my engines are out. See my bulkhead issue. I am looking at your bulkhead and mine is clearly not int he same position as yours! Now when I get mine back into position I am going to be looking at the same areas for any evidence of the same problems. Plexus is great stuff but the work time is only like 15 min or less. Now can they put this huge pieces in in 15 min? I guess in manufacturing it is easier but one thing goes just a little wrong and I guess this could be the result. Thank you for sharing your images. Is there any chance you have a picture of the back of were the gas tank would be? Looks like that is a nightmare to take out as well? I am praying I can fix mine with out having to remove the tank.

I posted the photos that Glassdave sent me. Dave emailed me last night saying he will chime in on the thread with a bunch of technical insight and photos. I hope that he can post a photo of the area your speaking of.

Chris

Thanks. I will give Dave a call later today. Been a while since I shot the crap with him anyhow. :-)

YUPP,

One more reason why i have never bothered with one, there are alotta stories like this, my buddy went after a 382 in FL, boat is "mint" ya well two different versions of mint lol, anywayz I just don't have failth in someones eyes other then mine, even in your situation you didn't see anything, but our thought process is a surveyor would catch that somehow some way, Ive been fortunate enough to get around insurance and loans that would require a survey, the whole thought of it is sickening, just seems like a scam to me, Ive always been scared of buying a boat 1500 miles away, finding a surveyor, get a good survey everything is good to go, get there, its a pile, have to fight for my money back, fight the surveyor, oh wait, it turns out the surveyor and marina/seller are friends, who's the stupid one now,

for the price of a survey you can buy a nice moisture meter ;o~

Many insurance companies require a survey now to get insurance.

As do the banks or CU.... The process of surveyors is not the issue...the issue is that there has yet tot be a licensing policy in place to make the surveyor accountable for their reviews....As a business owner in the Landscape industry, we pay Liability insurances, work comp insurances, DOT requirements, plant sales licenses, fertilization licenses, etc., etc..... TOTAL bureaucratic BS... Surveyors are like home appraisers...Get comps and all is good... The boat in story was pure....that I assure you. Wendy and I looked at 23 boats prior to buying this one...I knew this boat, I had seen this boat and all its up dating, motor upgrades, drives, testing results, interior upgrades...etc...This boat was NOT up for sale when we bought it. "Chillin" was a man's boat that was loved and cared for.... I pushed for the sale...AXA only sold us this boat because he KNEW that she was going to a loving caring family as he and Gail were...That and AXA is SLOWING DOWN>>>>>>> hahaha...:whistle:

Surveyors are a RACKET BUSINESS... until the industry requires them to be accountable for their findings we will all deal with this type of events.... I am amazed at the attention of this thread. Pleased to pass along good and bad......more excited to show off its final results....:cheer: and hopefully make the public aware.....:D

Sorry for the rant but... Wendy and I are not the BIG MONEY folks that are blessed to have the kicka$$ boats we all see and hear off.... want to be but NOT....we are typical AMERICAN small business owners carrying a boat payment because we can and its our passion...I've spent a year now hoping for making a difference and bringing attention to this type of happenings.... As we continue our path to making changes and proper corrections to this boat I can only hope that the manufacturer steps up and shows the industry that they are a MAJOR player and will stand behind their beliefs....regardless of the boats age.....


Chris :ernaehrung004:

Chris the issue is if I am reading this correctly there was no way to tell this issue was there tell the thing actually cracked open after you drove it one day? Of course there are good and bad survey guys out there. In this case do you think the guy gave you a bad survey or was it just impossible for anyone to know this was going to happen?

Completely impossible to for anyone to know this was going on inside the boat. The surveyor actually was extremely thorough. The report he gave was excellent. Who knows...just one of those things I guess.

Chris