docking light bulbs?
 

I have a bulb out on the port side and was wondering if I can get a replacement at an automotive store or do I have to order it from a Formula dealer? If my boat wasn't 45 minutes away, I would look for myself. I keep forgeting about it when I'm actually down there!

The ones in my 85 Formula have "GE" and "fog" cast into the glass lens. Therefore, I doubt they are marine, and can be gotten most anywhere.
But, if someone with authority says otherwise, believe them.

Dawiz,
Good topic, I've got one blown also. These are the Morse docking lights, right?

I believe they are sealed beams like older style car headlights. But, they're smaller than regular car headlights.

I'd like to get some new ones that are regular "spots" rather than floods. I want more range out of them. Thought I'd try Morse on the net.

Anyway, lets keep each other up to speed on this.

Dave.

Those bulbs are sold already in the round ball you see in you light. It is possible to relace just the bulb by prying the two piece ball apart for CONSIDERABLY less;)

i had one bad and just replaced both. they were GE flood. i put in wagner halogen spots. they look good on the wall in the shop but hadn't got a chance to try them out on the water. i got them at the local auto parts.......

So, they're not sealed beams like older car headlights??
You can just buy a bulb? Man, it doesn't look that way to me. Looks like you gotta get the whole glass part. Help me out here, are we talking the same thing?

And Liquid, did you have the option of flood or beam, or just flood?

I checked mine today and I don't think I can replace just the bulb. There is a rubber piece that has 2 wires permanently "sealed" to it with some sort of caulking. I called a Formula dealer and he said the piece was $10! I told him I would send a photo via e-mail to make sure its the right piece. That seems too cheap!! I'll let you know what I find out.

Any response from Formula yet?

i did have the option to buy flood or spot. i choose to try the spots to see if they would light the dock up better then the floods. the bulbs were $8 each.
mine looked like they were sealed to. the light was mounted in a rubber "boot" that is hosed clamped to the plastic thru hull housing. once you remove the hose clamp to get the boot off you can snap the light out of the boot. it wasn't easy but it did come apart.
when you put the new bulb in use wd40 on the light and boot and it will slide back togather easier then it came apart. the hardest part was working by myself and getting the bulbs oriented to where the beams looks equal. (kinda hard to describe). fogs can go in upside down or sideways were spots need to be straight. hope this helps.

Yeah, helps a lot!!!:)

Where did you get the replacement bulbs??

hey thirdbird,

i got them at the local auto parts. i took my old one with me and they matched it. i would try a good "old school"
parts house. you know how bad the auto zones and such can be. "well, we can't find -thunderbird formula- on the computer so i don't think we carry that".....

Exactly!!!! Those parts stores are staffed by rivit-faced, tattoo'd, floppy pants, dumphuk punks that wouldn't know a Formula Thunderbird from a Ford Thunderbird.

If all you need is Armor All or spark plugs or cheapo replacement hub caps, Auto Zone is fine. But, I agree, you need a good supply shop with lots of stock run by an adult who's driven a car for more than two years and has actually worked on one or two in his/her day.

There,,,,,,, now that I got that off my chest,,,,,,,, thanks again for the info Liquid:D

Thanks, for all the info, I'm on the road and just got internet service tonight. I guess i'll replace both bulbs, so they look the same.

Hey Liquid Fix, do you like the spots better?

dawiz74,

i have not had a chance to run the boat at night since i installed the spots. i really looking forward to see if they light the tralier up better when loading at night. i might run the boat in the next day or two and i'll check back in and let ya'll know.....

Re: docking light bulbs?
 

I called Formula and they said you could replace the bulb by prying the rubber boot apart. They said you might have to use a razor blade or sharp edge to get it apart. The guy told me the replacement bulb was a GE 4519. I found them through Grainger @ http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/pro...594456&ccitem= . I called O'Reilly's and they said it was a bad number, but they have a 4419 that is only about $13, but the candle power is only 1600? The 4519 is $35.00 and your only getting an average of 25 hours of usage, but at 30,000 cp's. All this is irrelevant until I get the rubber boot apart, which I have tried a couple of times already! I can't figure what part seperates? There is an approx. 1" ring that goes around the boot. Is this where it seperates?

Re: docking light bulbs?
 

ttt

anyone have a bulb replacement number for a 2003 fastech 292?

port side dock light went out.

WOW!

i pulled mine. its a two prong 12v 35w bulb with a uv filter lens on the front. hope this helps anyone who needs one.

Dock lights
 

I got mine at Home Depot,,,,,......really exact match

i tried home depot and they didnt have my exact match. they had a 12v 35w but it didnt have the 0.01 uv filter lens on the front.

I am wanting to get an HID conversion kit for mine. The stock lights dont really show up on the water but give good light at the dock. Not that I drive with them a lot but would like to be able to see stumps if Im in an unfamiliar area.

Have you already figured out how to do this? I'd like a slightly narrower beam than stock, which may be as easy as changing the distance of the filament from the base. I already have a few leftover 2 x 100W HID kits from my car lighting projects; they're B-R-I-G-H-T compared to regular 35/50W HIDs, run much cooler than halogen bulbs and I'd love to have them in docking lights.

Not since I posted this yesterday. First step it opening up the lights and finding out what type of bulb I have for sure. Once I know that, i can do some research for the correct conversion kit. I've changed out the halogen bulb on my Polaris and my truck to HID. Such a huge difference!!

A quick update to this topic.

The original docking lamps are 4.5" GE sealed beam fog lights, enclosed in a white, thick rubber sleeve that slips over plastic tubes in the bow. The sleeve is very tight and the lamp is glued in it with a sealant so it might be difficult to reuse the sleeve.

Fog lamps have a sharp horizontal cutout in the beam, with very little spill above it so I started experimenting...

I bought a pair of cheap auxiliary 4.5" H3 high beams, I already have a few H3 HID bulbs for them and while the beam is very narrow as it is, using a 1/16" spacer or two under the bulb brings the filament further away from the focal point and widens the beam. The lamps themselves fit the plastic tubes perfectly and a piece of 4" inner tube can hold them in place quite firmly. The problem is, they must be protected from moisture and I have yet to figure out how to do it.

The difference in brightness is massive, this combination delivers lots and lots of light, almost too much (you literally can't read the reflective number stickers on dock, the reflection blinds you!) and with one spacer the beam was nice and uniform. Wide and especially high enough to illuminate water in front of you, up to half a mile or so.

I'll post some pictures when I've come up with a solution for waterproofing the lamps. The current draw is about 9 amps per lamp, the original cables don't seem to heat up at all and the fuse didn't blow so this seems to be a plug & play conversion.

I almost feel like my boat just got driving lights. Too bad using them outside the dock isn't legal, you could easily drive in pitch black with them. And blind all oncoming traffic while doing so. :)

I already tried to take a side by side comparison picture but there was really no point, you couldn't tell if the original light was even on. I'd estimate the difference in lightpower is 15:1-20:1.

As far as keeping water out, does your factory light setup not have plastic lenses over the ends that follows the contours of the boat?
hope you took pics throughout this mod and hope to see them soon!!

Mine are "tube" type, with no plastic lenses. Just an oval hole, a piece of white (PVC?) tube and the sealed lamp attached to it with a hose clamp.

I'm planning to document the whole build. I'm using starboard side light as a mule and when I come up with a solution with waterproofing the whole setup, I'll duplicate it on the port side taking pictures throughout the build.

If I only can find a way to remove the white rubber sleeve intact and reuse it, the problem is easily solved. Otherwise I'll have to get creative, HID ballasts produce (tens of) thousands of volts at startup and that's something you don't want to leak out in a wet environment. Starboard lamp is mounted right next to the windlass relay box in my boat and there's a real possibility to get shocked.

Along the lines of replacing the docking lights, has anyone done so with LEDs?

Specifically, I have a new-to-me 330SS and would love to swap all the lights for LEDs

Thanks!

I've seen some 4.5" LED lamps that would be equally suitable for conversion I'm doing with HID:s, but once we talk about high power LED lighting, there's one important issue to consider: heat.

Or more precisely, where the heat is generated. Incandescent and discharge lamps generate heat at filament, inside the lamp where it dissipates easily when the lamp glass is cooled by wind. With LED:s the heat is generated at the base, which means you'll need a heat sink and enough cooling in an awkward place, the anchor box.

I've replaced most of courtesy/navigation/anchor light bulbs with low-power LEDs, but as far as sheer lightpower, current draw and heat are concerned, I prefer HIDs for now.

For more detailed information about lighting upgrades and all kinds of DIY projects, take a look at http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forum.php - it's a hangout for light fanatics. Great source for information and ideas.

Maybe a solution to the water issue would be to add some type of clear lens like on my boat? Shouldnt be too difficult to make i would think? Where did you mount your ballast? behind the mirror/wall compartment?
http://s10.postimage.org/6ojfktqrt/Lights_2.jpg

Yours look almost exactly like mine, but with a lens. That will help with water coming from the outside, but what I'm slightly worried about is moisture from anchor chain, ropes etc. The backside of the lamps I bought is like in any other (cheap) auxiliary high beams, there's virtually no seal between the bulb and the lamp.

I already found a 4.5" o-ring (or more like c-profile) that'll seal the front of the lamp nicely and fit snugly between the lamp and the tube. I'll have some spare time later this week, I'll have to dig in my spare parts boxes and see if I find something I could use. If not, next step will be to attack the original rubber housings with some major force and big tools, to see if the GE sealed beam lamps would budge...

All of the HID kits that I've put on my UTV's/Trucks are fully waterproof. Have you thought about just upgrading to a one of those kits? I dont see how the anchor locker could produce moisture up in the nose of the boat. The locker has some drains but they go to the back into the bilge.

Regarding my boat, I've never taken the lights apart or even looked behind them. What HID conversion kit would I want to go with? is there a direct plug and play conversion kit? Or would I need to do some splicing etc. I think i read you went with an H3 HID bulb? Why this particular bulb? Thx.

I'm not really concerned about the ballast or even high-voltage wiring, even the connectors are reasonably waterproof. The real issue is the bulb, lamp and lack of proper grounding; the cathode lead that runs along the bulb (filament/capsule) isn't really protected. Combining that with poor seal between the lamp and the bulb can cause problems with moisture - oxidization or corrosion of the reflector isn't a big deal, lamps are cheap and easily replaced, but high voltage arcing in an environment that lacks proper grounding like the chassis and body of a truck is a risk.

I've done about 50-60 different HID conversions, from simple high beam bulb replacements to all-out canbus, autolevel "bixenon", custom beam pattern HIDs and after getting shocked a few times, you tend to get a bit cautious with high voltage.

The reason for choosing H3 is simple - OEM lamp is sealed beam type, meaning that the lamp itself is a bulb so for a HID conversion, the whole lamp has to be replaced and there's no plug & play solution. Most auxiliary driving lamps use H1 or H3 bulb, some use H7, H9, H11 or even 900X-type bulbs; it doesn't really matter which one to choose, as long as the halogen bulb is removable and can be replaced with a HID conversion bulb.

I found some "PAR 36" reflectors (without bulbs) that accept an H-3 bulb for the HID kits. They look like they might work for this conversion.
http://www.duckworksav.com/Upgrades.html#Round for $18 it would be worth checking out.
I have HID's on everything I drive, adding them to the boat would be great. 5000 degree bulbs would light up the lake for sure.

"PAR 36" lamps are 4", which is ½" too small to replace docking light lamps. Fitting them requires some kind of ¼" adapter ring while 4½" lamps are a perfect fit.

I'd advise not to use bulb color temperatures over 4300K, unless you're in it just for the 'cool' looks instead of visibility. Higher color temperature dramatically reduces depth perception and while blue hue may appear to be brighter, 3500-4500K is physiologically optimal for human vision. The problem is more pronounced on water where it already is more difficult to estimate distances than on land.

Personally I wouldn't use 5000K or higher bulbs anywhere. If you want the lights to appear brighter, it's much better to get a pair of high-output (100W or more @ the bulb) ballasts and bulbs to match. Actual candlepower is what really counts. ;)

(No, I still haven't had time to continue the project; I've got the lamps, I've installed the bulbs, I've shimmed the beam slightly wider on both, but I have yet to figure out how to waterproof the setup while keeping it reasonably easy to replace the bulbs when the time comes...)

I run 5000K on everything, it's the brightest white right before it turns blue. 6000K have that blue tint. I'm not into that ricer look. Living out in the sticks I want all the light I can get. I guess it depends on whose color chart you look at.

I'd recommend reading medical/physiological material about color temperature and actual visibility. Daylight during noon is around 5700K, which has caused a common misconception (that's constantly repeated by people who sell cheap HID kits) that it'd be ideal for vision. Nothing could be further from the truth; in reality the human eye has evolved to be by far most sensitive during dawn and dusk, when color temperature of daylight is much lower.

Some basics of trichromatic color vision can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_vision

I've been studying the subject for a while, in addition to driving 30k miles every year between September and April, at latitudes where there's NO daylight (and up north where I hunt and ski, no other artificial light than what you have in your vehicle) for about 3-4 weeks around Christmas.

I've had lots and lots of different HIDs in driving lights / low bems / high beams / auxiliary high beams / fog lights / etc. for just about as long as you've been able to buy cars and trucks with OEM HID:s, or been able to source 12V DC ballasts and bulbs that have lent themselves for H1/H3/H4/H7/H9/H11/9005/9006 housing adaptation, for a remotely reasonable price from anywhere - including aviation industry. And a variety of halogens during close to two decades before that.

Trust me, you don't want high color temperature, not even 5000K, if you actually want to see as well as possible. Additionally, HIDs tend to have their optimum efficiency (the amount of light produced per watt) at around 4000K so you're not only getting fairly optimal wavelength, you're also getting more real, hard, measurable lumens.

Ok. Off the soapbox for now. ;)

hq, get us some pics! :)

OK, here are some pics of the setup.

The lamps I'm using. These are fairly basic 4½" auxiliary high beams.

http://eduskunta.com/hid5.jpg

HID conversion bulb installed, one of the aluminum spacer rings I tried is on the table behind the lamp.

http://eduskunta.com/hid1.jpg

http://eduskunta.com/hid6.jpg

And here's the real issue. The bulb seals against this surface, which won't make it watertight.

http://eduskunta.com/hid2.jpg

I could use sealant to glue the bulb in place, but that's not a service-friendly solution.

The good thing is that the diameter of the lamp is exactly the same as that of the GE fog lamp used in OEM setup. A piece of 4" inner tube stretched over the lamp will hold it in place if need be, but some additional protection from moisture will be necessary.

I also have 100' of anchor chain in the same box - the windlass is mounted directly above it - and sometimes it bounces around. There's a good chance it'll break the lamp, bulb and/or ballast sooner or later if I leave them unprotected.

I don't have any beam shots yet but these babies are BRIGHT. So bright that comparison shots with OEM docking lights are fairly pointless as you can't even see if they're on or not. I don't have a dSLR at hand right now so that I could use constant exposure to illustrate the difference, but like anyone who has played with HID conversions knows, there's really no comparison.

Very nice! Would also love to see pics of how you have the bulb mounted in the tube and of the beam like you mentioned. Still trying to figure out what's holding the stock light and the new light in the tube? sounds like just a piece of rubber for the new ones? Wouldnt that vibrate or bounce lose in some rough chop? As far as water tight, could you not use a rubber spacer in between the bulb and lamp where it twists in? or are you talking about on the back of the bulb where the wires are exposed? If so, I've seen a lot of HID kits that are wireless. Seems something like that, in addition to lens covers on the beam, would be all you need. Thx for the update. This gives me a better idea of how to do mine. Jay