Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Hello Rob

Just finishing up the engine project. It should be ready to drop in tonight. Been busy at work making it hard to get things accomplished on boat. I wen't to Lenny's shop Monday. I had to get out of there before I did something stupid. He had a set of 575sc ready to go. It was very tempting. Anyway I have a set 17" 26's on the boat right now. They work ok but the original kaama 16.5" 26p worked the best with my set-up. Maybe with this fresh engine I will see better rpms, being that one engine isn't doing all the work. Like to see 5200 was getting only 5000 out of good side(star) and only 4800 out of weak side (port). My friend has the 28's the props right now on his 42' Velocity. He is pushing 800hp and I'm waiting to see how they work for him. I will get a pic of the Kaama roost as soon as I get this pig back in the water.

Josh

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Hey Rob,
how is it going? Haven't talked to you in a while. You get a new Formula yet? Josh.... Had the Hardin big blocks in here but who knows what was up with the setup. It had been dicked up so bad by previous mechanics and owners it wasn't funny. I think Hardin originally rated it at 425 horse. I believe you must have the Innovation setup if your 357 is an 86 or 87. No rip but I've heard that unless stringently cared for, the Innovation engines were highly prone to premature deaths. (imagine putting some non-boating jamoke with tons of money and no common sense behind the helm and you know what I'm talking about) My props are (don't laugh yet) 16 x 24 three blades. Better for top end on the old setup. Ok, OK, I know the whole deal on 4 blades but we are talking about better holeshot on what???? A SURFACE DRIVE BOAT THAT TIPS THE SCALES AT OVER 13,000 lbs WET!!!!! It's not a damn Mastercraft. The three blades were good for another 5mph on the old setup. (and were marginally slower on takeoff) With the new setup though, I may be needing those larger wheels. I'd be interested. I was getting a top rpm of about 5800 on the old setup with the 16 x 24's. Maybe too much??? Hey Ram, I was told that the Kaama props only interchanged with #3A speedmasters. They have the 19 spline - 1 1/4" shaft, same as Kaama. You guys going to Smoke on the Water? Is that next weekend?

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

hi Al

Both you guys need to bring your kaamas formulas down to observe the smoke on the water. July 9 BTW. VanHalen Concert the night before in Grand Rapids Michigan and I got tickets!!!!. a testosterone weekend for sure!!!

still looking, including at josh's, just waiting for him to replace everything with new first.......:D I'm helping find parts whenever I can. its a "vested interest" thing :)

pretty sure my buddy told me his #4s had the 19 spline....... that's why i thought of josh before this post. maybe i misheard.....

sorry Mike for muddying up this thread... :o if al brings his over from Chicago, you can come and watch the smoke and check his 402 out.

WE will be on the water for sure


Ramb

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

I'm running the #6 ssm props right now with an adapter kit that Earl Laneir sold me. The adapter kit is nice because the #6 ssm props are more available. The kit slides in the prop so there is no prop shaft mods. The 28's are 19 spline smalls of #3ssm.

Rob- I see how it is. I fix up like new so you can buy it. Only thing left to do is the trailer then it will be ready for you. I have new brake kits, drums, master cylinder, and tires ready to put on.
Alj- My engines were originally 425hp hardins- The guy before me bought the boat with the motors already done up they were built in 93'- they were punched .040-higher compression pistons, Crower cams approx 560 lift I forgot duration, comp valve springs, same mark 4 heads, performer rpm intakes, and 750 holleys. He told me they were pushing 500hp.
I don't think there close. Anyway, I bought the boat in 01' with one engine fresh and the other 150hrs, the one with 150 hrs has always drug along. I have put 130 hrs on boat and now I am replacing the older of the two motors. The reason for failure was due to gasket failure leading to water in oil. Didn't catch it in time. oops
Other than this no real problems.
Rob- wish I had time to go to Smoke on the Water. Sounds like fun. I will be at coast guard, count on it. Going to be in Grand Traverse Bay Poker Run Saturday. Riding in my old 311Kaama.

josh

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Al,

Boat looks good. Sounds like you've done a ton of work on it. I still like the Formula (it's a really good boat) but it was time for a change. Now if I can just get the bugs out of the new one (sounds like a familiar story, doesn't it).

-Greg

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Actually, I heard it the other way around, that the Innovations were the better one's. Weren't the Hardins before the Innovations?

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

The story I've heard was the early Kaamas were packaged with the engines. I take it these were the Hardin engines (never knew the name before). Nearly everyone of them blew, so they started packaging them with the Innovations. By then, the Kaama name had suffered so much from the engines that it was too late to save it. The drives suffered from guilt by association with the early engine packages. Innovation has long been known for building very high quality marine engines. That was who did the CRE engines for the Apba. I know mine are 18 years old and still start at the touch of the key, first lick. Mine had been warmed over somewhat with raised compression and different cam, but other than that, all the same. They sound healthy as hell too. :)

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Hey guys'
I'll have to go back in my oso archives but model year 1985 was the last year for Hardin/Kaama packages. Some 85 boats recieved the innovation motors.This is also when Kaama changed to dual ram steering. The stories about the engines blowing up were with the Innovations. I think it was Apache Pete who said that he had blown two sets of engines in his F357 back in 86 and that Scott Porter was so sick of hearing from Pete that he pulled two new engines out of a boat sitting at the factory waiting for delivery! Them there are some engine problems. Nobody was ever specific about the actual nature of the problems on the Innovation engines but someone must remember all this on this site. Hey rob....Smoke on the ninth of july....we'll try for that. My neighbor five doors down is Claw and he's trying to get new engines in for that poker run