42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

Why is the Lightning 5mph faster?
I would think that the Ex is lighter in weight and more aerodynamic.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

Different Bottoms?

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

I think they have the same bottoms on the new models. Are you sure there is that much if any difference in speed?

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

No diff in speed here. :rolleyes:

http://www.fountainpowerboats.com/boats/sport.htm

42 EXECUTIONER
Speed: 84+ mph
Recommended Power:
Twin Mercury 525 EFI w/ Bravo XR Drives



42 LIGHTNING
Speed: 84+ mph
Recommended Power:
Twin Mercury 525 EFI w/ Bravo XR Drives



42 POKER RUN
Speed: 95+ mph
Recommended Power:
Twin Staggered Mercury 525 hp w/ ITS Short Sportmasters



47 LIGHTNING
Speed: 88+ mph
Recommended Power:
Triple Mercury 525 EFI w/ Bravo XR Drives

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

Bingo - tks Downtown.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

That's the exact speed I found when I took one out for a test ride - 84.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

I was reading some Cig threads and the Cig guys with new twin step top guns claim they run around 86-89 depending on the load and water with Merc 525's. I personally compare the 42 Ex and Lightning Fountain to a 38 Cig and they really do have about the same length of hull in the water.
What are your guys take on this?
thanks, Mike

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

I have a friend who has a 2002/3 twin step gun with 575's and he says it runs 90.

I think the Top gun t/s hulls are dangerous though.

http://media.putfile.com/ejection

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...9&postcount=25

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...8&postcount=30

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...1&postcount=33

Fountains are safer and faster, period.

I don't think so. I hear the Cig guys and all the other Fountain haters saying that all the time, but look carefully at the pictures below. Notice the water line up to the point of the nose on each boat.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

That water line is at rest...running at speed is what counts. I am not dissing Fountain by any means...I own a Fountain and would own a 42 Fountain in a heartbeat. It is just surprising that a 38 TS/TG Cig is running mid to upper 80's with twin 525's. That is a huge heavy wet hull to be at those speeds. I thought they ran 80 on a good day. I guess Cig got there hull desgin together. Anyway, I know a guy in MD that has a 2002/3 38 Cig Gun with 575's and it ran 90 when he got it but I believe he added chillers, smaller pully and the computer was re-mapped and now he runs upper 90's. The Joker here on OSO has a 38 TS/TG Cig with 575's that would run 93mph. A new 42 Fountain with the new 600's will run 90-92mph.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

FM, I believe waterline is measured at rest.
3yrs ago we were docked next to a 2003 TG TS w/ 525efi's and he claimed 86-87 tops.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

ASG has one of the nicest TSG's out there with 575's. I'm pretty sure he see's a consistent 89.9, but got 92 out of it at lake X. My 42 w/ the new 600's (which is 4 sale :)) will run mid 93-95 w/ 5 people and fuel, etc.......

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

It's so obvious that the Cig hulls are better and that is why they currently dominate all of the Offshore Racing series and hold nearly every kilo record on the books. The overwhelming number of racers who choose the Cigs to compete in tells my everything that I need to know about their hulls. :rolleyes:

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

popcorn please :D

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

Yeah....that's a Gladiator in the video and that is in race conditions. The Top Gun T/S hull is dangerous only if you don't know how to drive it. Actually, that's with any Twin Step hull :rolleyes: I watched a guy flip his 35' Fountain a few weeks ago...is it safer than a Cig? No.

Generally speaking......A 38 T/S Cigarette w/a cabin and 525's runs 85-87mph. A 575SCI boat will run 86-88mph and there are a few exceptions like ASG's, Joker's old boat, our 38 T/S that run beyond those speeds.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

Wow! So DLAW doesn't know how to drive a boat? Tres doesn't know how to drive? Funny stuff.

Dlaws boat is going around a curve and the back slides out. Here are his comments...

"I can assure you that Phil spun that boat...maybe not in a race but he spun it. I say that because every boat that I have bought that has been raced has been over, now some would say that it was due to inexperience but that would not explain why Tres, Bob, Todd, etc went over also. The Virgin boat was the worst. First, Tres got sideways a few times in testing, then Kevin King and Gil Leiber almost got killed in a GLSCS race, the Diamond Dave and Val spun, and then Bruce and I got tossed..... That boat will spank you the minute you stop paying close attention. My Super V went over with the Rodriguez team, then with Bob Bull so many times he joked about painting a canopy on the bottom!!! Brian Hollis took a few, Dick Simon took a nice swim with Stinson on the sticks, on and on and on....... I think quite a few Cigs have been over in testing and fear of hurting resale has kept lips shut tight. Now this is not to say that in the right hands these boats can be competitive, but the right hands are Todd and Tres or Bob...... the rest of us mere mortals better know how to swim after a 80mph hit or how to breathe on oxygen inverted until the cabin fills up enough to push the hatch open. Thats a fact.

Take a look and tell me what went wrong..... slow turn, no interruption in water (we were in 1st), no wacky control inputs.... Its a design flaw.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

Running? Incorrect. Depending on speed only a couple of feet are going to be in the water in any boat.
It's at rest which is how waterline is measured. Fountain with its "beak" clearly has more in the water than the Cigs.


Straight line speed but not stability like turning. Watch the video.

They are fast no doubt. But Fountain has a superior better performing hull, period.
Ask Dlaw and those who have raced the stepped Cig hulls what their opinion is.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

Remember a new 38 Lighning runs 103-106 mph on 600's.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

My 42 x weighs 10300 per factory. How much does a T/S Gun weigh? I'm guessing lighter but with more fiberglass/freeboard.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

WOW :eek: I am just trying to discuss some things not slam anyone or any boat manufacture so I do not apreciate the slams toward me. Look at my screen name, look at the boats I've owned and now own and look at my post's sticking up for Fountain...I am a Fountain fan OK? No need to flame and slam me...I am just thinking out load and talking here.
But I see the 42 Fountain with 525's runs 84...my dealer ran a new low hour 42 EX with 525's to 82 with a normal load and good chop on the water he reported to me. The Fountain weights around 1000lbs more than the 38 Cig according to both websites so there might be your speed difference due to overall hull length.
I did some measuring on a 42 and consider the beak on a 42 to be 1 foot. Some beaks like on my 38TE are longer. Then the 42 has a notched transom plus the swim platform. So from the drain plug to the end of the platform the is around 3 feet. That puts the waterline (usable hull) at around 38 feet. The 38 Cig does not count the bolt on platform as part of the length but measures 37'6" so that is why I compare the 38 Cig or 39 Cig to a 42 Fountain. Again, not starting an argument here but just did not realize the 38 Cig with 525's will run 87-88mph compared to the 42 Fountains claim of 84.
OK I'm done rambling! :D

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

I the 38 Lightning is really a 34'6" hull too. Even next to a 38 Cig it looks smaller and inside feels smaller. Great boat though and for around the Tampa area I'd own one in a heartbeat.
My 38TE center console Fountain really only is a 34' hull due to the large beak and the huge engine bracket...but it is so cool because it is 10'6" wide and still does 73 mph.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

No go measure a Cigarette from from the back to the front, (the waterline) as it sits in the water. You will find 4-5 feet of the front bow not in the water.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

So are you saying that a 38 Fountain is the same waterline length as a 38 Cigarette? The 38 Cig is a 1000lbs lighter than a 42 Fountain plus the Cig basically has nothing in the front cabin and a 42 Fountain is loaded down with a V-berth, TV, Fridge, Sink and so forth. Possibly that is why a 42 Fountain sits lower at the bow in the water.
Another measurment I use is what I call the useable hull length. This is from the end of the front highest strake right around the trailer eye, drop a plum and to the drain plug. When I did these type of measurments (for my own personal use) back in my APBA tech days the 38 Cigarette was much longer than the 38 Fountain.
What's your take on this?

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

Yep, measure it. Waterline.


Probably. But that's irrelevant.
What is relevant is how much of the boat is in the water at rest.


That isn't waterline measurement.

There are two measurments of length on a boat. LOA and the LWL.

"A ship’s Length Overall [LOA] is measured in feet and inches from the extreme forward end of the bow to the extreme aft end of the stern. Watercraft operators must be familiar with this and similar dimensions to safely maneuver the ship. The dimension is commonly found in lists of ship’s data for each vessel. "

A ship’s Length on Load Waterline [LWL] is an important dimension because length at the waterline is a key factor in the complex problem of speed, resistance, and friction. On vessels with a counter stern, the LWL and LBP can be the same or about the same. On a ship with a cruiser stern, the LWL is greater than the LBP.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../image1445.gif

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

Fanatic, I understand what you are saying but there is now way the running surface and or water line on a 38 Cig and 38 Fountain is the same. Even if you do not equate the Fountain 1.5' beak into the measurment the Cigarette does not count the swim platform into the LOA like Fountain does. With the swim platform and the notched transom of the 38 fountain there is a good 3 feet of hull that is not part of the running surface.

Man, I sound like I am sticking up for Cig and I'm a Fountain owner....weird huh?

This same deal goes for any boat that counts the swim platform into the LOA so for example a 382 Formula is not the same hull length of running surface as a 38 Cigarette. Formula counts the 2.5 feet of swim platform.

Another example would be a 41 Apache is a much longer hull water line length than a 42 Fountain due to the Apache doe not count the bolt on swim platform, again Fountain beak not in the measurement.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

I would suggest you re-read the paragraph above.

Look at the picture...That boat has six feet of the bow out of the water, easily.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

"Look at the picture...That boat has six feet of the bow out of the water, easily."

I always thought my 42 rode as well as the 46 Cig... :p

And also, is it a done deal that the two Fountain 42's run the same speed with the same power?

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

Fanatic, that picture you keep showing me I believe is a Cigarette 42 Revolution not a 38 TG.
I've seen a ton of pictures of Fountains that sit beak high in the water due to the engine weight in the back. So does that mean that some 38 Fountain are shorter than others? No it doesn't. That picture of the Cig means nothing, seriously.
At the end of the day the USEABLE HULL LENGTH of a 38 Cig is more than a 38 Fountain...period.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

I was in toms river NJ in 03 with my 02 42 fountain lightning with twin 575's. I had to go back to CT so I filled all my tanks including reserve and took my guest on one last ride in the bay (6 of us in total). I ended racing an 03 38 cigarette with the same power and we beat him. We later tied up at the tiki bar and he couldnt believe with all that weight that I kicked his a-s. I also have a video that one of the passangers was trying to do his best on with recording, maybe I can dig it up next week.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

Wow, what a bunch of B^%$&ing about what everyone on the planet knows:

a) Fountains are generally faster than a Cig for the same "manufacturer's claimed length"

b) Fountains are generally 8% less real length than virtually any other performance boat due to their counting the beak and the swim platform.

c) Fountains are a great "go fast" boat in relatively mild conditions.

d) All steps spin and roll (look at the 51 Outerlimits that killed everybody in Michigan 2 weeks ago)

e) There is no finer rough water boat on the planet than a Cig, albeit a bit slower than some competitiors of "equal" size.

f) Phil rolled Rio becasue of a 4' chop on top of 8' swells on a left hand turn in KW on a shortened track due to the rough conditions. Oh yeah, he was in the lead, so the slow boats didn't roll at that point.

It's all about choice and passion. Feel good about what you drive or get something else. Don't waste peoples time with boat drivle.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

Unleashed, Fanatic and I where having a civilized and fun conversation about boat lengths...no more and nothing else. We were not arguing at all. :D Also all boats will spin out...yes even old style straight deep V's. I remember races back in the 70's and 80's were plenty of straight V style boats spun out. :rolleyes:

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

That old line that a cigarette is better in the rough water than a fountain is incorrect. When I had my 42' (with 575's) I went against a non stepped tiger with twin 1000 cobras (the nauti kitty after it was sold and repowered). We were running in some good swells during a poker run and I ended up first across the sound in saybrook and in Montauk.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

What I would agree with is the non standard size issue. I consider my 30' cigarette closer to a 35 fountain. When I had my 29' fountain I did get the sh-t beat out of me in the ocean where that is not the case in the mystique (because size is what pounds the waves). So I would say if manufacturers came up with a standard way of measuring a boat it would be easier to compare different boats.

Re: 42 Ex vs. 42 Lightning
 

bmanafort, I agree...also when I owned my 2000 29 Fountain I did a real measurment with that boat while it was on a rack out of the water. I dropped a plumb at the drain plug and another plump bob where the arc of the bow would have contined up with out the beek. The 29 Fountain is a 25.5' boat.A 38 Fountain would measure around 34 something feet. My 38TE Fountain is really a 33' running surface or usable hull.
I love Fountains and do not get me wrong about them as I am an owner and will buy another but when comparing certain brands you really need to educate yourself on true wet hull usable lengths.