I've been on a 35 lightning. Haven't had one out yet. My point is everytime someone asks about a boat a guy with a cig chimes in acting like no other boat should be allowed to come off the trailer. Like the cig is some mystical creation. It just gets annoying. I've talked to enough people with different boats to know they are comparable. A 38 fountain and 38 cig are comparable. Yes I know there is a 2 ft difference because of platform. Notice I said comparable not identical.

On another note its not every person with a cig but a few who are relentless.

I personally would be bored in an older straight bottom boat (38-40ft) that topped out at 65-70mph and would rather have a smaller boat (30-35) that did in the 80's with decent power, especially for inland lakes. I think the OP is going the right way with a 33 Fountain or something like a 32 Hustler. If I was going to buy an older performance boat, I would be very hard pressed to look at Cigs just because they were sooo heavy and needed a ton of power to go anywhere.

My take on the whole deal is if you are buying a performance boat that does not go any faster than the low 70's, you mind as well get a center console, bolt some 300's on it and run by those old pigs while burning less fuel.

Adam how would you compare a 33 Powerplay to a 33/35 fountain??

what my point is RUNNING surface drastically changes the ride of the boat. a foot long beek and a 2 foot swim platform may give the overall length YES i agree with that but how does that change the amount of boat running across the water or spanning waves. and talking straight bottom to straight bottom a fountain isnt light years faster than a top gun with comparable power. sure Rons 38 stepped hull with warmed up 575's is faster than my 87 38 top gun with 750's but thats not comparing apples to apples. take a old 86 40ft fountain which takes a nuclear powerplant to get moving is more of a comparable. put a pr of 750's in it and see how she runs. i know the answer to that first hand too.. not from talking to "guys"

33 Powerplay will eat a 33/35 Fountain in rough water. The 33PP is one of those boats, like a 41 Apache, that for one reason or another is just "right". Years ago when PP was still in business, most of the customers were the type of guys who had been through the big name boats and ended up with a PP. That tells you something. The 33 was built from day one as an offshore race boat, based on the 32 Cobra, which in its day used to put some bigger boats in their place when it got bumpy.

I didn't say the old straight bottom was light years faster. Id love to know how a beak affects running surface? Last time I looked at any boat either at idle or on plane the bow isn't in the water. Most boats run on the last few feet on plane. Pull a string line from the beak to keel you aren't missing enough material to make a luck if difference.

You guys are arguing about something that doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out.

Before Reggie put his additions onto what he calls a 35, it started life as a 31 Excalibur and grew to 33 with the addition of the beak, A few years later it grew to 35 with the platform. So, Reggie added 4 feet to the boat between the beak and the platform.

So, for arguments sake, the 33/35 Fountain has about the same running surface as a 31 Bullet.

And using the same math, a 38 Cig has about the same running surface as a 42 Fountain (2 feet for the beak, 2 feet for the platform)

Cigarette = God
Fountain = Devil

I agree with you a little, but lets get the facts straight. It was a modified Excalibur mold, but it was also in fact stretched. The beak is barely a ft on my 38, no way it is 2 ft on a 35

Follow the line of the beak, and you will see in many cases the leading edge has a more abrupt line that a comparable non beak boat. I have proved this point on a trailer next to other boats. Nose to nose my running surface at idle reaches the water before a other boats of the same size. Not that it should matter seeing that we are all hanging the bow.

I still wonder why this matters. It is a constant punch line around here, yet the fact is fountains perform. We all sometimes want more boat, I don't car what you have. We also sometimes want less. This dude is coming from a 28 and this turned into a discussion that he needs a 42 to match a 35 café.....really?

To the OP,,,,,,,,, if you are still reading.

As you can see asking something like this gets a bit "heated". Ride in the boat in the water you boat in and make up your own mind. If you buy a fountain, beware you will need thick skin.

[QUOTE=jbraun2828;4103781]Just the same, we get sick of older straight bottoms dogging LOA on newer molded boats. A fountain owner catches way more heat than an old cig owner. And now the beak has become 5 ft long, it never ends.

Maybe the day will come that I will need more length, but for me it would most likely be a 42-47 fountain. I would like to stay efficient. Kevin (cig 92) has a collection of old boats, I love them all.

So call my 9800 lb 38 fountain a 34, I am ok with it. It performs beyond expectations every time I use it, and ate up lake Erie in the buffalo poker run cruising at 70 mph when over half the crew turned back because of rough water. The 38 rode well enough to have open sodas. However living out there I would need a different choice of drives, no way xrs would like that treatment every weekend

And btw, I love the older boats. 88 bullets cig hawk is amazing, and sounds so good it keeps the cops away from me :D

Chris - OP

Follow your heart. Make sure you buy right, if it doesn't meet your expectations I am sure you will not have trouble flipping it and moving on to something that does. We are all biased, so getting a straight answer here is near impossible. You are going to be the best judge on what works for YOU. You may love it, you may hate it and sell it.....but that's what makes life exciting!

I can't stress enough to make sure you buy it right. Buying a boat outside of bank loan years can be tough to move if you decide to sell. Sounds like you are a cash buyer, and there are not many of them around today now that HELOC loans are not given away like candy.

Cig guys just get mad because the only thing they do is take waves and go as fast as a cruiser yet have none of the amenities. When was the last time cig even entered an sbi or opa race let alone won. If fountains won so many championships love to know how they can't ride in rough water.

Cig owner - your fountain is fast because it is 6 ft shorter than advertised. My cig will do top speed in 9 ft waves

Fountain owner- your cig is slow, heavy, and doesn't have a bathroom. Fountain has the speed record blah blah blah

Can't we all just get along?

my cig has a bathroom....

Ah, this has already been discussed. Remember, they moved the races inland and no longer run in the rough for safety so cig bailed, it was a conspiracy. Next one of us will post old fountain videos tearing up rough water. Then it will switch to apaches, name calling, gold chains, false advertising, bankruptcy, banning and thread locks.

There....I just saved 6 pages

thats because they cancel the races now if it gets too rough!! its not 1990 anymore lol

Dude, I am so taking a dump in there next time I see you

no biggie.... mine has a holding tank and Macerator.... you can take a dump in my boat but i will empty it in YOUR lake

I typically dont get into these discussions because for one I dont know how many of them make sense. Two I dont really have the knowledge to know or care whos right or wrong. But from an average boater I like my fountain IMVHO it rides nice and compared to running along side other boats, seems to ride better. again IMVHO has some of the best lines. Is it the best boat I dont know dont really care I like it, I do know this much you cant go wrong with a fountain.

Lastly people speak of the beak on my little row boat sized 29ft Im not getting where its 4 feet long, maybe a foot and second, where the beak curves in where in other boats it just goes straight down, of which thats unusable space anways, who rides or sleeps in the first two fee of a boat. And second swin platform most boats I see have molded swim platforms of which fountains isnt very big compared to others, so you buy a 34ft boat with a 4 foot metal bolted on platform and you think you got a 38ft boat, and if you do who cares maybe my wive is hotter than yours. But last time I checked all boats counted the swim platform in the length after some mysterious date in the late 80s or something.

High school math test.

A Fountain starts from L.A. and a Cigarette starts from New York both going 80 mph. Where will they meet ?

Trick question. A cig can't do 80. Hahaha

Mine can :)

LMAO - i just read all of this! thank you everyone for the input! cigs are slow, fountain fast, if I purchase a fountain I need thick skin and a gold chain and we can take a dump in Tim's boat! I learned a lot in these past 7 pages but sounds like not many people still own these old boats

didn't mean to start a feud :party-smiley-004:

There's plenty out there. Buddy of mine has a 90 SB 42. Great boat. I know the 10 meter is too. Talked to many who love them.

ohh BTW reggie's chain aint got sh!t on us cig owners
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Nice...

I keep seeing/hearing Cigarette Racing Team,
most of the races I attend are full of Fountains never really see any Cigarettes, I guess it must not be rough enough for the big dogs to get off the porch.

12 meter, 38 powerquest, 38 cig. So now what are we gonna talk about?



[ATTACH=CONFIG]521772[/ATTACH]

12 meter = 39.370 feet - 2 foot beak = 37.370 feet

Still shorter than a 38 Cig :party-smiley-004:

I don't care what people call it. I've been on the 38'cig to "put n bay" from my marina (approx 85 miles) and the 38 powerquest on the way back home. Neither ride was better than mine in any way. Not worse, but not better. No it wasn't OSO 35 footers but an honest 3'-5' roller on Erie. At the end of the day I had just as much fun in both boats as I do on mine and they all deliver a nice ride!

You left the 12 meter home cause it was too rough? :D

It would've been such a hassle holding off other boats from rafting off, waiting for them to show up. Not to mention the engines loading up at that speed.

My 10 Meter has Joey Griffin 765 hp motors. It runs a solid 100, turns on a dime, and its safe. I don't want anyone injured, or something crazy happening. It also has no stress cracks. Joey loves the boat, says he would take it over a step any day.

I hear ya!!! Still like my 38 beak. What kind of frozen treat is your avatar enjoying:evilb: That was too 12 meter joe

To the OP.... if you want to know how a 38 step hull performs check out the oneida lake thread. a certain 38 was considered to be dragging water which why it was not considered for pics.:lolhit:

sorry Ron had to do it... im still laughing from this morning

Ron the avatar pic is the best on OSO!!!

Not sure but I know what I would like it to be:coolcowboy:

I'd bet several would be!! ...and I'd like to ride in it !!!

I don't know if you got an answer yet or not, but I had a '84 ten meter (the only offshore boat I've ever owned) and on Lake Ontario choppy four footers it was not what I would call smooth. The boat would certainly tackle rougher water than me or the rest of the particular could/wanted to handle. That said, with one foot chop that boat would threaten 80 and just felt awesome. I was always amazed at how flat it ran, great experience.
I would have to go through the boats cockpit and tighten seat bases and other misc. bolts regularly. By the the way, park a 35 lightning next to a 35 cafe racer- you'll be shocked at the dimensional difference.
Same power, the fountain will be more lively and efficient (relatively speaking).

I'd buy another one today.

Informative thread. I've learned more from this thread than just about every thread I've read on here in the last 13 years. Here's what I found out that I never knew.

28 Panteras were never made with twins.

Cigarettes don't have toilets. (Apparently that's a prerequisite for a performance boat)

The beak and platform in one reply don't affect the LOA of a Fountain. In another reply it was admitted that they do, but not really, but kinda sorta do in a way.

A couple of guys that own a boat from opposing camps in this thread actually have the ability to give each other a hard time about the other's boat of choice and not get butt hurt about it. I applaud them for this.

A boat with a straight bottom isn't a true performance boat.

A lighter boat is a better handling boat in any water condition than a heavier boat of similar length......obviously excluding Apache. That's completely different.

My personal take. I like them both. I have the ability to appreciate the lineage and impact that both brands have had on the sport. I can appreciate the sleek lines and efficient hulls that Reggie built. I wouldn't be ashamed to be seen in one any day of the week. I don't care for the integrated swim platform that Fountain uses. Just my opinion and nothing anyone should be too offended by. I don't think throttles should be on the left hand side. Please see my previous comment about that just being my opinion. :)

Come tie up to me any weekend regardless of what you own. I don't care as long as it floats.

Buck