Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

It is unfortunate that every boat builder and dealer has to deal with these issues all the time.

As I see it........you want your boat fixed...... They offered to fix it....... You have declined to have them fix it.................. Your on your own!!.

I think it absolutely unreasonable to think any dealer is just gonna write checks to have motors fixed that their mechanics said checked out fine without at least the opportunity to see the motors for themselves. Even more unreasonable is it to think a dealer that has a full service shop with many capable techs on payroll would pay retail shop rate and retail parts price for someone to fix it locally. I'm sorry to say this all smacks of an unreasonable customer.

Let me ask you this. If and when your motors let go again and you've "lost trust" in the guy that's doing your motors now is he going to be on the hook to pay someone else to do the work?

I have seen customers that wanted to turn a stress crack into a new custom paint job, and i have PERSONALLY had customers ask me to do that crap with warranty and insurance work. Tell them it 10 times worse than it is and it will cover all the custom work they want done.

I'm not in any way saying that is what is happening here but it does happen ALL the time. NO business in their right mind will just write checks to whoever claims they have an issue or makes a fuss on a website. I don't understand why otherwise reasonable people become unreasonable when it becomes THEIR issue.

Unfortunately plumbers, roofers, stock brokers, car salesmen, checkers at Walmart etc don't have a website to be smeared on.

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

Its pretty easy to be on LCM's side, and understanding, unless you have gotten burned big time at least once. I have had the similiar problem happen to me, so I know how bad it sucks.

About bringing the boat back to the marina 1900 miles away, the only way I as the buyer would do that is if the dealer paid the transport. If in fact they false advertised the motors, why should the buyer have to put up with these problems. Not only is his boat all screwed up, now they want him to tow it back 1900 miles?

I would think it is only fair for LCM to stand behind their sale, and the new owner should bring it to a certified merc dealer who specializes in merc racing motors. As big as LCM is, Im sure they must have a relationship with some merc engine builders near the new owner.

This man bought a 2004 boat, and Im sure he paid a pretty penny for it. Now, a broken bilge pump, or a bad alternator, Id say no big deal. But, if we are talking 20k in repair work needed and he didnt get to run this boat more than a few hours, lets just say that I personally wouldnt be here, Id be waitin at LCM at 5 am for the doors to open.

Personally, Ive never dealt with LCM. I have been to their site, and it seems that they sell some nice, high end boats, a big facility, probably a knowledgeable performance sales staff. That is the #1 reason I would consider buying from them. Well known. But, if I continue to hear stories like these, Im staying away.

Jeff Murray, you say you talked to the guy at LCM, who you have done business with, who you are obviuosly tryin gto protect his name by gathering the facts, which is good, and I would do the same. However, stating that the man at LCM refererred to the buyer as an a$$hole, is a total turn off. Not very professional. If I got burned that bad, then I read that now I was being called an a$$hole for wanting some reconciliation! How can you expect the guy to bring his boat back for repairs after that statement?

Im sure there is probably more to this than we all know, on both sides, what was represented, what promises or agreements were made, etc. But in the end, this man has a broken boat. Hopefully, all will come to an agreement, and his boat will be up and running, and LCM's name will stay a green light for me when it comes to looking for a top gun next year.

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

It was Edwards Advice that got me to hire a surveyor on the westcoast and the guy waved me off the prospective purchase very quicky,as the stringers and bulkheads were very wet.
money well spent

In the Old Donzi i just sold, I insisted the buyer have an inspection done. I represented the boat very fairly, but I wanted him to have a neutral 3rd party opinion, my opinion is honest, but I have a boat to sell.

I learned it from a previous prospective buyer a month before who on the seatrial said, the oil pressure at idle is 25 lbs and the needle shakes ("so that means the bearings are burning up"), and there is an oil leak so the rear seal is leaking, and drove a long way and didn't buy the boat.
It was so unnecessary since the boat was fine but in the abscence of a impartial inspection, he went in the entire paranoid direction.
I offered to have the boat inspected after the fact to clear his concerns but he was freaked out and didn't come back to the table.
It was so unneccessary

The oil pressure is normal at idle and the needle shakes as the gauge is electric, I didn't think there was any oil leak but the inspection showed it was leaking from the dipstick tube that needed a spot of RTV. I knew it wasn't a front or rear seal.

My new buyer has the boat a month and is very happy, the deal went smooth, deposit, inspection, purchase, he knew what he was getting and feels fine with it.

on one sour note. it looks like the inspectors reversed the plugwires after the inspection compression test and performance is down a bit but hopefully that will get straightened out this weekend.
The buyer is still comfortable.

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

Another thought;

If the problems are actually the motors, what if the new owner pulled the engines, and crated them, and ship them back to LCM for repair? Seems reasonable on both ends.

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

how can i trust them after the way i've been treated?
they could tell me they did all kinds of stuff to these engines only to find they used sub quality parts to save money. i am not saying that's what happens but just my fear!
guy's, here are pix of the imput shafts off the superchargers. one almost fell out when the engine was started the first time.
now if these are this bad guess how bad the rest of the engine is :mad:

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

Sorry for your problems but if you don't give lcm the chance to fix the problem then it becomes your problem, not theirs. Randy has always delt fairly with me and if you would have let them make it right, you might be boating. Biggest lesson learned is to sea trial and survey any used boat. Best of luck in your quest. NK

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

this got by their checkout team and i found it once i was home, and much much more. that's why i dont trust them. they did send me those parts but the engines are worn out. i pulled a head and intake to find good patterns of wear but wear all the same. more than 49 hours worth and then some. i even asked them to just pay for parts and i'ld cover the labor so i'm not being the rude unruly customer im being portrayed as. i just want a fair and reasonable ending to this!

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

in all fairness you cant expect LCM just to hand you a wad of money. they have offered to repair the boat. That's as fair as it gets. Not taking anyone side but me being in business myself, i fell i should have first opportunity to fix a problem if one arises.

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

If LCM advertized these engines as only having 49 hours on them, I wouldn't have any confidence in them either. I don't think a Merc 600 blower would start falling apart at 49 hours.

To me, that's the big problem I'd have. If I bought them with no idea how many hours were on them, and they fell apart, I'd just suck it up and eat the cost, but that doesn't look like the case here. Tell me, do those parts look like something from an engine with 49 hours on it????

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

And some people wonder why used car and boat dealers have a bad name. The boat should have been surveyed and sea trialed. That mistake is on the customer. The pic of an hour meter with 49 hours is the type of thing National Marine was and did do. We all saw what happened to them. Is LCM next in line for the big fall into oblivion? Joe Murray

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

Well those certainly aren't parts with 49 hours are they? It would appear the original motors were kept when traded in probably for the next boat and these tired motors put in to trade it. Assuming the original owner did the swap to trade it in, Cumberland should still realize 600sc's have been discontinued a long time.

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

first thing is you should not taking the motors apart you should of left everything alone and drove 1900 mi and let them (LCM) fix you boat. now you have a problem because you took them apart and they can say that these are not the parts that came off the motors. It looks like now you have a bigger problem.

just my 2 cents


Rick OSG

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

i have witnesses as well as photo documentation. i made sure to cover myself on that end.
i just want it over!!!

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

seanv,

Several years ago I had a major problem with a boat builder out of AZ. I live in MI. After many weeks of dealing with lawyers they agreed to take the boat back at their cost.

That's when I thought things were going to be done right. After about 2months they called and said the boat was ready and all issues in their opinion were resolved. I flew to AZ to check the boat out before they shipped it back to MI. Well let's just say that their idea of items being fixed right and my idea of item being fixed right on a $180,000.00 boat are not the same. The point that I'm trying to make is, even if you send the boat back and they agree to fix it, make sure that they document all the work that they did. Get part#'s, and have them give you all the parts back that they replace. If possible try to mark the parts you want replaced. Not to say they would do this but I've seen people get parts back that they thought were there's and they were off another motor.

Good Luck I feel for you because I've been through it myself.

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

This is a shame..... I have to say I see both sides here, but I sense there will no resolution until cooler heads prevail and some communication and assurances occur


I hope the issue is solved properly

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

There´s a Sucker born every minute the old saying goes....this will surely happen all over again.
If not then I´m really surprised.

Seems that there isn´t profit to be made not even in US within highperf powerboats?
Can´t actually believe it.

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

I happen to work as a Truck operator and a collegue actually just recently fetched a 2003 model boat as a warranty from Norway ( a weeks trip driving thru 2 countries ) and delivered a brand new 2006 model for the owner.
Twice the Boatbuilder tried to fix the leak the boat had without hesitation but finally the Company said the Customer should get a new boat instead of the refund the owner wanted.
The 2003 was scrapped.
Has Anyone had any issues with Nor-Tech...they´re form Norway originally or Nordic?

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

Name the reputable dealers then..seems there isn´t many...
Or is it just that you go and buy a boat from a Company like Saber then rig it yourself ?
I Guess I´d be fulltime occupied in US?
Or bankrupt as I Try to make things perfect and my schedules turn south :D

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

You got that right.
I won´t write any checks to anyone if it´s something done by me.
Even the warranties on whatever the product states the shipment for the product is up to the Customer.
Hopefully everyone understands this from the sellers point.

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

YUP that would probably be the best scenario here....PULL the motors and freight them back to LCM to repair. both of you could split the shipping or you pay one way LCM pays the return freight back to you. You couls find a local shop to pull the motors and negotiate with LCM on that money as well. Buying ANYTHING used from 1900 miles away always poses a risk factor if something goes wrong. A question that should have been asked by the buyer UP FRONT to LCM in advance as well as thoroughly going over the boat inside and out plus a water trial. You could have also hired a local mechanic near LCM to check the motor before the purchase. If LCM advertised the boat motors with 49 hours they should be restored to the 49 hour mark for wear and useage. ALSO the fact they were taken apart does create another problem as stated above. SHIPPING them back would have been the better idea. It does not cost that much to do.

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

both sides bring good points into question..i read most of the posts to learn from others mistakes...Sean you have not answered alot of questions to get better advice from this board...

1.HOW WAS THE BOAT REPRESENTED..AD ETC...DID IT SAY 2004 BOAT WITH 49 HOURS , 98 600S LEFTOVERS JUST INSTALLED.....OR FRESHENED UP 600S

2.DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF AD...
3.DID YOU SAVE ALOT ON THIS PURCHASE BECAUSE OF THE
OLDER MOTORS...

IF YOU ARE BUYING CAT BOATS AND READING MAGS ,OSO,ETC..YOU SHOULD HAVE HAD A CLUE THOSE MOTORS WERE NOT 04s.

LETS SAY YOUR NEW TO BOATING AND YOU PICKED A REPUTABLE DEALER AND YOU WERE MISLEAD TO BUY A
49 HOUR BOAT TOTAL BOAT AND MOTORS...AND THE MOTORS FAILED AND WERE 8 PLUS YEARS OLD...AND THIS WAS NOT DISCLOSED......I THINK EVERYONE WOULD HAVE
PROBLEM WITH THAT.....

SEAN GIVE US MORE FACTS ABOUT THE PURCHASE AND HOW THE BOAT WAS REPRESENTED SO EVERYONE CAN
FORM A MORE EDUCATED OPINION.

IF YOU DO DECIDE TO LET THEM MAKE THINGS RIGHT, 3800 MILES ROUND TRIP TWICE IS HARD TO SWALLOW...MAYBE YOU COULD MEET THEM HALFWAY....

HOPE THIS WORKS OUT FOR YOU AND THE DEALER..BAD PRESS AND HEARSAY ALWAYS HURTS THE DEALER

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

Yeah, I'm sure that LCM would get right on it. :rolleyes:

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

Its crappy you have to deal with this Sean...but the fact is.. this is the way of life in the boat biz, and the used car biz... and has been forever. The good thing about the car biz is you can buy an extended warrantee if the cars not too old. I wish there was something like that in the boat biz, but who in there right mind would insure that?
You buy from a boat dealer no matter who it is, and he doesent have a local connection near you, you are pretty much stuck on using him for any issues, IF they even want to talk to you!!! or your on your own. LCM doesnt sound like they want to do anything for you unless you bring it back, so it sounds like your screwed or need to get a lawyer. I hope everyone reading this has learned a lesson and I hope you get it resolved.
Personaly..........I'd like to hear from any boat dealer who would do it any different/better then LCM is doing it. :rolleyes:

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

LOOK you at least have to give them a chance to make things right :rolleyes:

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

That is very difficult to do without ALL the facts from both sides (SEE CHAD1's post above) the purchase contract as well as the original ad and so on.

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

the heading for the add on this site by the way was" 2004 american offshore" described as great shape. i asked for photos of the boats interior and cabin. the sales rep sent them to me right away. one of those pics showed the tach/hour meter reading 49hours.i even commented on the hours and how it wasnt used much and he agreed. when i asked how it ran his reply was they were going to take it out. after the did so he said it ran great and you should hear them idle. he said he took it to 90 and it was great.
i traded in a 97 daytona with 980+hp that ran 118mph. i put most of it together so yes i know a little about boats. i didnt know that merc had stopped building those engines in the 90's. they had every chance to say hey, these engines have far more hours than shown but still run. i could have said sorry no deal or made a different deal with them.
at what point do i trust them to build engines for me? it's my family and friends who will ride in this boat. and at the speeds these things can go i dont trust them with that responsability after this whole ordeal.
they dont have to write the check to me just let me take it somewhere close and they can handle the money. i dont want money like has been stated, i want my boat fixed. hell, i even tried to let him cheap out by just paying for parts so, im not that far out of wack!

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

yeah, what he said...

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

I just re-read the post from LCM. Sounds like they are pretty much saying your on your own now.
Sean.....you bought into their sales pitch..trusted and belived them and that was your first mistake. 2nd was not having the motors checked prior to buying. 3rd..not taking it back the 1900 miles. (that would suck!!!)
If they flat out lied to you...and only you know...go after em with a lawyer. I really feel for you...but it dont sound good. I hate hearing these stories

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

From what I read you knew these engines were installed by the previous owner but elected not to contact that party or have a survey conducted. You have declined to have LCM service the boat as well.

Good luck in getting the problem resolved to your satisfaction, just not sure what any more comments about it on this forum will contribute to the cause.

Re: cant beat a deal like this
 

Well it is obvious that this thread is being used as a heavy hand to try to threaten Lake Cumberland Marine in to doing something or else. Unfourtanetly, this is not what OSO is designed for.

After four years of monitoring this board and prior to that being in the brokerage business I am all to familiar with this situation. A boat dealer wants to sell a boat and in order to really go through a boat with a fine tooth comb you have hours of labor involved and on the other end you have a buyer that wants you to take a trade at $1.20 on the $1 and wants to purchase the boat at or near wholesale.

On the other side you have boats with overinflated prices that can drop significantly if there is no trade or plenty of cushion is left in the deal to cover the trade in the event that it ends up being a ticking time bomb.

In closing I must say that anyone that buys a boat that has ever had a key turned period should have a professional survey (and even those don't always catch everything) and a compression and leak down check at the least. If you want to take it the extra mile drop the lower until oil and check the condition of the oil. Still there is no guarantee, I have seen people destroy engines in less than an hour and bad throttleman destroy drives and twist prop shafts their first time out.

I am not choosing a side but regardless this is a matter that should be resolved in the courts or between the dealer and the buyer. Telling the story on OSO in an effort to strong arm the dealer (as the thread starter has stated above) to do what you want is not acceptable.

Some says this is an open forum and you should be able to discuss whatever you want. Until I see a judgement from a court I consider all information to be hearsay and non factual. Not to say that seanv is not telling the truth and LCM isn't either but I have seen way to many people manipulate things on the internet to scam people, get something for free, or make someone else pay for something so they don't have too.

In the even that this goes to court and a judgement is obtained you are more that welcome to post it here for future buyers to beware.

As far as LCM being an advertiser, we have closed and deleted threads similar to these for business's that were not advertisers.

Please remember the recent court ruling that holds the person that posts remarks responsible for their comments. Due to past situations and at the advice of our counsel we choose not to provide the format for a potenital libelous or slanderous situation.

Thread closed.