Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

Boat racing will never have a huge following, it's like airplane racing...nobody except airplane owners care and only a few of them are into it, therefore there are no $$ in it for the boat manufacturers. I can't see them participating in this sport much more than they already do.

Regarding one of the original points of this thread, Cigarette has NOTHING to gain, everything to lose by racing. They already are THE brand in offshore boats, this can't be improved on. Braver has come out with new models, many of them are stunning and the brand has been revitalized. Participating in a race and possilbly losing won't improve the brand any, winning won't do anything either because of their lofty status as a brand. Aren't they tapped out as far as production goes anyway?? Why mess with success??

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

What evidence supports this statement? In order to race you must first be a racer.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

Who cares if it's sanctioned by a governing body. Like it was said, just get a few hardcore boaters that want to do it for the glory, not the money. The last thing they need is someone to start writing rules for the race. Race whatever you think will win. Even if you don't win, a good showing in a smaller less powered boat would still be an accomplishment you could be proud of.

As far as spectator freindly, as has already been pointed out, even if you are at these so called "offshore" races, you can't see but a little bit of racing. I've watched them from the land, and from a boat, and they both suck. I prefer the land. Which do you think brings the NFL more advertising dollars? The 70 thousand or so in the stands, or the millions watching on TV?

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

I seem to have touched a nerve out there.

First of all, I am not disparaging poker runs or the size of the waves at the current race sites....these can all be kept and enjoyed by those who like those kinds of things.

I am saying that there is a niche here, for a race to be held that will capture the imagination of the public and give the racers who choose to participate some great memories.

Someone pointed out about how much coverage the racing gets now in Powerboat, Hot boat, Extreme Boating and the other boating magazines....that is what I say is the problem....only the boating magazines cover the sport.

In 1979 over the first 5 races of the year, Betty cook and I were tied for first place in points in APBA Open class. Sports Illustrated did an article, the New York Times sports section covered it and another article was written about me buying the molds, to start my banana boat company, from Don Aronow and Cigarette in Esquire magazine.

These are mainstream magazines. That is why the average person on the street knew a lot more about offshore racing and the participants then.

This thread began about why the boat companies, Cigarette in particular, don't get involved in racing. I say because they do not get the type of exposure as I mentioned above anymore.

What is needed is a big event that involves real drama, like Paris Dakar.....even though it is only held once a year, the sponsors can use the victory or even the participation in it, to show how good thier products are.
People remember and respond to big events. I still have people ask me about the Cannonball Race that I raced across the country in 36 hours in 1979. They even made a movie about the race...Cannonball Run...and Gumball Rally.

Let the sponsor firgure out the demographics of the fan base and how they will address their customer segmentation.....let the promoters put on a good show.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

this is true, BUT the people that do follow it are the ones that spend the money on the parts. As any manufacturer/dealer knows the money is in the service and parts, looka at the numerous threads on how to make their boat go faster. Even current Cig owners like myself arent as impresed with the path cig has taken, colors design and such. I'm looking into a different brand altogether. Cig has an iconic name, to be number 1 is one thing, #2 is always on your heels, it easy to lose that # 1spot.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

I think the beginning of the demise of this sport was multiple sanctioning bodies. Look what a joke boxing is. How many heavyweight champions can there be at one time? The massive egos and pocketbooks of the racers makes it too easy to just pick-up and start your own game if you don't like the way things are done.

I mentioned to Stu Jones once about a race to Freeport, GB and back. He told me once you bill an event as a RACE, everything changes drastically.
Insurance, medical support crews, security at the race site...it just goes on and on. A Poker Run is EASY to do by comparison.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

TV is the key...I have been in the pits at Nascar races. The crews & the officials watch the race on TV. Most of the big tracks, you cant see anything {ever been to Indy?}......
You cant get the networks involved with all the infighting going on. They look at $..Period & they dont trust this sport.
I would LOVE to see it happen again. I would watch it, Buy DVDs etc.....I just dont think it will Happen :(

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

if they did put on a true run what ya bring offshore race. like ft laud to bimini or similar that i could run my mistress in, i would jump at the chance knowing i stand a chance in big water. the other boats would be heavy wave crushers not the light layup stuff, have a cat classs and a stepped and non stepped v class. no gps old school racing. even if it was only one or a few races a year it would be good tv viewing just like the apache challenge. how much cash would it take to put on an event like this? given the fact a lot of folks would surely donate time and money to put it together.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

Get it back to Man against the Sea...

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

Since the beginning of racing of all types manufacturers have learned about reliability of what they build. Nascar has changed the way cars are built and has also helped build safer cars. I for one would want to know what boat would hold up in an endurance race through these conditions. Look at how many Apaches were sold and still loved for their abilities in offshore racing. This type of race would definately seperate quality from junk. It would allow us to see what engine builders big or small can build something that stays together or what hull manufacturers method is best.

The open courses would have some trade offs in safety though. While there would be less of a chance of collisions it would be harder to provide fast rescue or medical attention unless each boat had there own helicopter following.

Media would have great opportunities and could actually cover the race in multiple segments or even a pay per view. Think of the sponsorship that would be available other than hull manufacturers Livorsi, Gaffrig, Garmin, Lowrance, Mercury, Ford, Gm, and anything else associated. Just look at the sponsors on any of the outdoor channels or any motorsports. Sponsorship is based on the target audience and the audience is already interested in boats which is a luxury not a need.

If they can televise fishing and hunting this would be much more appealing.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

No classes, otherewise you'd get into rules that govern that class, and the mess starts all over again. Run what you brung, and if you were the first say single v bottom, you can take pleasure in knowing that.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

I agree to a certain extent, but a lot more people own boats than airplanes! Granted it will never be as big as Nascar because almost everyone owns a car. But I have a lot of friends that don't own boats that like to watch boat racing.

Furthermore, it could have a MUCH BIGGER following! I used to love wathcing the offshore races 3-4 years ago when they were on speedchannel. Hell I'd get up early on Sunday even with my hangover to watch and tape them. 7-10(or more) boats in the classes and some GOOD deck to deck racing. Now I could care less, there's a race on at 4pm today and I probably won't even watch it.

Edward R. Cozzi is right, multiple sanctioning bodies has ruined it. If done/marketed right I think a long distance race could bring a lot of publicity to the sport!

I would love to see some Factory type racing but that would probably never happen right away. So if you want run what ya brung then just break them into size classes for cats and Vs. That's it, no other "rules". No stepped V seperation, no power or drive limits, nothing but size. Simple and straightforward and no worries of cheating.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

I disagree, you need some size classes. Nothing else. Otherwise you have nothing more than a glorified poker run with no cards! :D

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

And what's wrong with that? May the best man win.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

It doesn't give much incentive for the smaller boats to come out and play. More incentive=more boats=more exposure IMO.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

Lots of good thoughts here,, A few of my own,, Mark B talks about Grand Haven to Wis and back,, that needs to be expanded on,,, the on common request here is to get Fans involved and then sponsors ,,, The Poker Runs work because they are simple ,, Bill Taylor has brought the crowds into the Thousand Islands Runs .. Why?? because each town ,, read stop,,, has its own thing going for it ... then the business owners win!!

Maybe the Race needs to take on a three day format with lots of activities in the marinas where they overnight,, with start times for each group and courses that take them close to shore where viewing can be accommodated .. this would work on the Great Lakes ,,, or South Fla. or the Calif coast and it could all be sold to the networks if marketed right .. :D :eek:

RHC

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

Most of the racers pay their own expences with some small help from sponsers. If they want to race out in the open ocean, that's their choice to make. I don't see how it would help the spectators though. We want to see the boats more than once when they idle out of the harbor. If it's a destination race, we won't even get to see the finish. I think that Key West is the ideal format. The course goes out far enough that racers have to deal with rough water, then they come back in where the fans can see them. The pits are open so we can look at the boats. The racers are accessable, we even see them around the town at night. And of course the town is so much fun. In 04, when all the groups were there, all of the classes had plenty of boats.

Maybe you might want to have the occasional race offshore somewhere, but if you're trying to build a fan base, closer in is necessary.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

break it down into length classes, for example an manufacturer may have a great 35 footer but ther 42 footer, has issues. I think thre would have to be limits for HP as well, not on drives or set ups, just top HP. for example a 38 footer with 1000's would be faster than a 38 footer with 525's.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

This would be geared more for television, which i think is the way to go for a larger following. Cuda made an excellent point.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

Dont you mean" build a bare wood boat" on oln, Which would you rather watch??

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

Then the can of worms is open! The accusations of cheating and finger pointing will begin. Are you going to dyno EVERY engine? Have Factory SEALED engine classes and/or open run what ya brung, but nothing in-between IMO.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

Don't the British do an around the island race? Does anyone have info on that? Do they still do it?

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

i have a feeling this thread is gonna have an impact

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

what team/car?

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

If people are willing to watch sailboats run the ocean on tv, then they would enjoy watching powerboats do the same thing but better! :D Its all on how you promote it. You have to set up the rivalries between the boat manufactures and put stories behind the drivers and make it something people are going to want to watch. (my.02)

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

THE RECIPE

Make it interesting -- make it exciting -- make it understandable --
make it worthy of sponsors -- make it TV friendly -- MAKE IT HAPPEN

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

I still say no classes, no restrictions. If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. Nobody in the general public will care who had the fastest31 foot, single step, twin engines making less than 500 hp, with props spinning in class. Everyone wants to see the big dogs. The rest of the boats are just for the enjoyment of the owner of the boat. The public won't care. The public won't care if it's a v hull, a cat, piston driven or turbine powered, if it's a conventional drive, or a surface drive.

The only thing they want to know is who was the first one to cross the finish line.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

This is what I am talking about !!!

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

there has to be a discriminating factor to set them apart, a run what ya brung will more than likely yield to the person/owner that has the most money. In stock car racing, the rules are "each car is "supposed" to be the same... Maybe designate them starting at different times according to top speeds.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

Key west would work for both. Just run it like they did in the old days.

I think they ran like 100 miles out to a light house or something and then came back.

Curtis

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

To an extent I agree but you do it that way I don't think you will have enough boats to make it happen. Plus I think the public would like to watch the "little" boats catching some BIG air, I know I do!

Also, a lot of boat owners out there RELATE to the smaller boats because they own one. I loved watching the Factory 1 races because I could relate to it and the guyz have some big ballz! :D

It wouldn't be that hard to have say a up to 30', 30-35', 35-40' and a 40'+ classes for both V and Cat. NO other restrictions, period. Plus this would get A LOT more manufacturers involved. Boats like Activator, Kryptonite, Warlock, etc etc would care less if it's going to be all 40-50' boats racing. The more involved the better IMO.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

Like I said before, I would love to see "Factory" type racing for this. I just don't think there would be enough interest. But you will definitely want an open class. That would bring out a lot of boats!

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

So?? If there are only a half dozen boats making it, it would be more entertaining than watching 70 boats of all different classes, half racing at the same time would be.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

TIMEOUT


everybody go and watch the apache offshore challenge in the vip forum

then we will reconvine to discuss :drink:

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

I couldn't disagree more. Not many people would tune in to watch a handful of boats race on TV IMO. I don't care how fast they are.

In a race like this all the classes could be out there at the same time because there will be no "lapped" traffic. Hell, you could even start the smaller/slower boats off first to make it more exciting when the big dogs pass them! :D

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

Sure, there will be small segment of the boat owners interested in smaller classes, but I guaran-damn-tee you that if you asked any member of the public who won the race the day before, the only one they will remember is the big dog.

I'm talking about a race to see who the King of the Sea is, not about a bunch of Princes.

How many of the casual Nascar fans watch ARCA races or even the Busch races? They watch the big boys.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

And none of the manufacturers of smaller boats would want to participate. Getting more manufacturers is the whole point!

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

That may be true but that doesn't mean that we can't have classes for other manufacturers to get involved for bragging rights and marketing. Then the public will still watch the big dogs but the smaller boats can compete too.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

I don't think getting more manufacturers in is the main point. Getting real public interest in offshore racing should be the point.

Re: Open Ocean Racing
 

we agree to disagree on that aspect of it