Boat Stereo System 101
 

I've decided to completely redo the stereo system in our boat this winter. The only problem is that I don't know anything about choosing what I need. :rolleyes: :D

This is what my boat currently has:

AM/FM cassette Blaupunkt head unit
Clarion 50eq graphic equalizer
a/d/s (analog and digital systems) PQ8 four channel power amplifier
4 Babb 514 marine speakers in the cabin
2 6 1/2" cheapo (west marine) speakers in the cockpit


Everything that I've listed here still works, although it is 18 years old. It has a short somewhere and messing with the rats nest of wires can make it cut in and out. I plan on replacing all of the wiring for the stereo. amp and speakers. The Babb speakers in the stabbin' cabin are wasted and I have already purchased 4 Babb 534 speakers that have to be used in their place due to a unique hole pattern.

So I'm asking for some help on what I should buy that will fit our needs. The four speakers in the cabin will never have the need to be "cranked up" and ..with dry exhaust :D :D ...we will not really be expecting to be able to hear the stereo while running. I'm NOT looking to have the loudest system on the water and I DO not want to have to add a new battery or anything like that. Basically, I'm thinking just a XM compatible head unit, an amp and 8 speakers (4 in the cabin and 4 in the cockpit). No cd player, 8-track or cassettes are needed. I'm not looking to spend thousands of $$$$ on this either.

One last thing before I open it up for suggestions..and keep in mind that I don't know what I'm doing...can I hook the 4 cabin speakers up to the head unit and the 4 cockpit speakers up to the amp (for extra volume out there)?????

OK, let's hear what you all think.

Thanks in advance,
Craig

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Bigyellowcat. That what he DO!

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Tyson is the man.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

It was very simple when it came time to do my boat...I payed someone that knew how to... I hate wiring...

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

yep just take out a check come back in the morning :D

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Yes, get an amp for the cockpit speakers. If you are not going to push subs, you probably won't need extra batteries or capacitors, although a second battery is always a good idea. Lot's of companies like JL, JBL and Rockford Fosgate (to name a few) have speakers for marine use. Co-axials are the simplest to setup. They can withstand the moisture and UV rays. A 4 channel amplifier should work best for your application. Don't pick out an amp yet, pick the speakers first. You will need to know a speaker's ohm and power rating before you buy the amp. We in the Pro Audio biz call this the "speaker load". Check out JBL, JL, RF, MTX, Sony and Kicker's websites and look at their marine speakers, see if there's anything you like or catches your eye. And stay away from the "Internet Flea Markets"!!! Most of the stuff is either stolen or counterfeit.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Thanks unsane. What would you suggest for the cockpit speakers, head unit and amp?

Like I said in my previous post, the only thing that I have already purchased is the 4 Babb speakers which will be installed in the cabin. Here are their specs:

30 oz. magnet
80 watts rms continuous
300 watts peak
4 ohm impedance
91 db SPL@1W1m

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Man, those things can use an amp as well but it's not necessary. Try Rockford or JBL or JL, and look at their websites. I'm about to crash for the night but tomorrow I'll look too and get back with you. Also think about subs too, I can do up a diagram for that too if you want.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

You should work for the Government then... :drink: :D:D:D

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Thanks, I appreciate it! Like I said, there really won't be a need for big volume in the cabin. I'll check those websites tomorrow to try and get ideas for the head unit.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

:D :evilb: :drink: :evilb:

Hey Buddy!!!

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

I am going to put a mount for an iPod and XM radio in our new one. You may want to think about these. We will rarely need CD's and can have continuous music.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

I would say put an amp on any speakers you can and the more power the better, I have seen alot more speakers blown by under-powering them then over-powering them.

if you have any questions you can call me.

tyson
4174370665

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

I have sirrius and love it, all mine is Kenwood marine and it sounds great, no amps to the cabin spekers as its not needed. i added 2 6.5's to the freeboard by the driver and passenger dash.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Following this with interest as I have some work needed in my boat. Previous owner put in two big Pioneer(?) subs under the back bench, but never hooked them up. So I know I'll need another amp, but this is the first I've heard of possibly adding a new battery!

Also, does anyone know of a car/boat head unit that will allow you to directly connect a iPod? It seems to me that we've had external sources (think portable CD players) for 20 years, you'd think th manufacturers would figure out that having an input on the front panel would be useful. :rolleyes: I mean, my 10 year old Onkyo receiver at home has a gazillion different inputs; hell, my TV's got 4, including on on the front panel.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

THANK YOU!!!!! As a concert guy we never under power speakers at all, in fact we go the other way by 50% to 100%! This is the biggest myth about audio and the one I get the most arguments on and it feels like I gotta beat this principle into peoples' heads, so it's refreshing to hear someone else state this as well!!! THANK YOU!!!

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Let me know the model of the subs and their ohm rating, also if they're in cabinets or not. Also I know there are headunits out there that can deal with the Ipods but I can't think of any models off the top of my head but if it has an AUX input on the front, usually a 1/8 inch jack, then you're good.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Since we're spending your money... :D

Start at the speakers and work backwards. You already have four in the cabin. They should be on their own 4-channel amp.

Next you will want four speakers and a subwoofer for the cockpit. Those four speakers need to be on an amp, and the subwoofer needs to be on a third amp.

Find a head unit that has two sets of "line outs" and even a sub out. That way you are not splitting your (single) signal between four sets of speakers. If necessary, you can wire the cabin speakers to the "front" and the cockpit speakers to the "rear", and use the fader control to send the sound to either the cabin or the cockpit (or both).

Now for power. Driving three amps will require more than one battery. Buy two "gel" batteries and connect them in parallel. You may want a third (lead) battery for emergencies. Connect them through a perko switch. Lead to "1", gels to "2". Never run on "both".

Wiring. If you want your system to work, don't skimp on the wiring. All of this new equipment won't work for crap unless you have high quality wiring in place. Pay special attention (and spend extra money) on the power wires from the battery to the amps.

Finally, alternator. You may want to upgrade your alternator. You probably have a 55 or 65 amp alternator. You might want to get a100+ amp alternator.

Good luck! :cool:

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

id be more worried about how to de tune those big motors than stereo right now :D

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Then he would say..."Money is NO object" !! :D

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Ok here's a few things I came up with for the cockpit minus the headunit.

JBL MS610 speakers with the GT75.4 amp
JBL MS620 (higher power speakers) PX300.4 amp is best but GT75.4 will work also.

Rockford Fosgate 162C(coaxial) or 162S(component) using their T15004 or P8004 amps

Kicker KM10 using their KX650.4 or KX850.4(better)

JL Audio M770CCS (component) or M770CCX (available 2006--coaxial) The closest JL amp is the e4300M but it's a little low on the power, any of the above RF amps will work as well.

Now for headunits, it's really a tossup. None of them are really that powerful and will run out of juice very quickly. You'll need to figure out what your needs are such as XM, MP3's and so on. Clarion has a lot of headunits more Marine use so check them out. Let me know if you have any more questions. Glad to help.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Yup you can probably get Biggus to part with his........

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

way too much motor for his driving abilities.... :rolleyes: :evilb:

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Craige. Get in your truck, start driving North on 95. When you get to MA then get off on Rt 4 and 225. Left on Walsh, honk horn, sit back and have a beer. :evilb: :evilb:

From our conversation the other day, my suggestion is for for the keep it simple.

Speakers, going to stores and listening to them is almost a complete waiste of time. They will sound TOTALLY different in the boat. Unfortunatly going with what we know works in that boat is impossible as they are no longer made. Unless you are willing to take some stuff apart to run wires you are going to be looking at Coaxial speakers. Replace the speakers in the cabin as you already thought with the Babbs. Run them with the ADS as they will sound better that way and that amp will work well in that aplication. For the cockpit get a pair of 6X9's or 6" rounds and replace the ones under your bolsters and put another pair under your back seat.

Amplification. You have the ADS for the cabin, get a very efficient 4 channel amp for the cockpit. You want efficient so that you do not need to go with more batteries damn boat is heavy enough as it is... :eek: :p For what we talked about 25-50 watts should do you fine.

Head unit: I think replace that unit and go with a Clarion or Sony. This way you can have the hard wired remote. Most of the new units will have aux inputs and allow you to hook up Ipods, some have docking stations available that allow you to even control them.

Wire the front RCA's to the ADS amp, and the back RCA's to the cockpit amp. This way you can fade to the front or rear or run them all at one time. If you want you can put a toggle switch in there to turn off the amp that you are not using....

Jon

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Nope transistor radio all the way baby!!! :evilb: :evilb: :drink: :drink:

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

I bet most guys with big systems would tell you that boats and big music don't do well together. I would set a reasonable goal and keep it simple. The wires, connections and well everything need to be as secure as possible X2.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

The professionals in the mobile audio business may disagree but I would use that ADS amp until it dies. The output was usually under rated and they are very reliable, especially the older ones built before the company was sold to Directed.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Old School: Check out Harmon/Kardon's Drive+Play for you iPod connection.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Real good solid info!!!!
Jon thinks like I do. :eek:
Craig, call me. I have the $ hook up ya know!

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Um......yeah. What caused them to "blow" if it wasn't too much power? :rolleyes: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

The JL coaxes will not be out till 3Q 06 according to JL Audio. This may influence your speaker decision if you want them soon. I am going to add 4 more speakers (8 total) & thought i would get rid of my 4 current Kicker KM60s & go w/ all JLs, but now i will just buy 4 more Kickers & see how the JLs are received.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

In my house the speakers I have are rated at 100 watts, I run alittle over 800 to each of them, in 4 year I have not blown a single speaker. I have put the same speakers in someone's house with a 50 watt amp and they blow them a few times in a year and I have to warranty them, finally I got sick of them blowing them and I kept telling them they needed more power so they would quit blowing them I put a 400 watt amp on them they were louder and never blew them again. that was a little over a year ago.

fourteen years ago I did a demonstration where I took a tweeter that was rated at 50 watts and told some of the people that came in the stereo shop that there was not an amp out there in the car market that had enough power to blow the tweeter, I had an o-scope set up so that we would not let the amps clip, and I built a good crossover network that would keep the signal within the range the tweeter was meant to play in, if some one would have shown up with a little amp it probably would have blown but of course everyone shows up with the biggest amp they could find and it handled all of them untill someone showed up with an earthquake 300 by 4 (looked like a surfboard), and we ran two of the channels mono into it and it played for several minuites but then finally melted the coil. so yes enough power will eventually use the coil as a fuse, but the moral of the story is that it did handle most of the big amps out there.

A speaker will handle alot more power as long as it is not distorted then it will handle when it is distorted. that is why I made the comment that I made

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

alot of people blow there factory car stereo speakers and they never got loud and sounded bad but you can take that same 8 watt factory car speaker and put 300 watts to it and it will be a whole lot louder and sound better and you will probably never blow it. I had a rockford fosgate power 300, with the front two channels mono to one factory 4x6 and the back two channels mono to the other factory 4x6 out of the dash of a 91 surburban, with them mounted in the kick panels of my camaro and took it to a few stereo competitions and won just to prove my point.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

BYC... I never understood why my front dash (stock) speakers blew.... maybe it was because everything else was on amps and they were just attached to the head unit.... thanks for the lesson.

Ernie

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

In short, amplifier clipping. Providing less power to a speaker than what it's rated for will not itself hurt the speaker, however it's when the user runs out of amplifer power, which will happen a lot sooner with a smaller amp. When an amp clips, it chops off the waveform and for a brief moment the speaker sees DC voltage. The speaker has stopped moving but energy is still flowing through the voice coil. A big subwoofer's baffle or diaphragm is also a fan that cools the voice coil. No movement, no cooling. Also little speakers like tweeters can be physically damaged. So the best thing is to get an amp that's at least as powerful as the speaker demands, if not a little more. It's just like matching Props up to engine power. There needs to be a balance if one is to "throttle" a sound system.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

OK, so lets go back and I'll ask one question at a time.

Question:
Can I run the 4 Babb speakers that I have for the cabin with no amp and use an amp for the 4 cockpit speakers?

I ask this because I just want a basic stereo system with no need for being loud in the cabin. I just want to have a head unit, one amp and 8 speakers total. Can it be done this way???

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Yes you can. Just don't let distortion come out of those cabin speakers. The only thing you'll have to work on is the gain structure of the amp for the cockpit speakers. That means adjusting the level of the cockpit amp in relation with the cabin. First take the cabine speakers up loud (without distortion) to the point where you think that's about loud enough for you or that's all the amp can dish out. Now turn up the cockpit amp until you max out the speakers there. Now note the level on your headunit and that's your max volume for the entire system.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Yes you can, however do you want to be able to fade front to back, or cockpit only/cabin only music. If you want to have cabin and no cockpit you just put a simple switch in the dash to put that in line with the amp trigger.

Jon

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

OK, Thanks Jon and Unsane for answering that question!!

Next question:
Would it be a better option for me to still use eight speakers, but to run two speakers to each channel of the 4 channel amp?
What I mean by that is wire each pair of speakers (cabin front, cabin rear, cockpit front, cockpit rear) in parrallel. From what I understand, if I use speakers with a 4 ohm impedance rating, that would knock them down to 2. Using this method would give me fade control, wouldn't it?

Keep in mind that I'm not trying to build some kind of superduper system here, just a nice radio. I really don't have the room for multiple amps.

Re: Boat Stereo System 101
 

Jon beat me on this one, but I have to say the same thing. I double checked some amps and no 4 channel that I could find has 4 RCA inputs or even 4 high level inputs, plus there probably aren't very many headunits have 4 RCA outs either. Yes, go with the original plan and put the amp on a switch, so if you want to play some tunes overnight, you can kill the amp and save your batteries. Now about that Disco Ball :evilb: