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Ethanol ???

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Old 05-04-2006, 06:36 PM
  #31
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Default Re: Ethanol ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by JERSEY DEVIL
as far as poorly built tanks i know of 3 skaters it has happened to so far and they are built the best. boat builders just did not know what to expect. so you are rolling the dice with glass tanks good luck to us all, bad year for boating fuel prices now this. may take the year off and see what happens.
If they are built the best, why are they having fuel tank problems????? AS I said, Alternate fuels have not been any mystery for the last few years. I agree Skater makes a great hull, they just screwed up on the tank, why cant you accept that????

Same message to TomFTM

This has been on the horizon for years, why do you think there are hybreads or Hydrogen cars???

Last edited by Linster; 05-04-2006 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 05-04-2006, 06:42 PM
  #32
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Default Re: Ethanol ???

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Originally Posted by boatman22
If I remember correctly all gas stations had to change to fiberglass tanks to stop leaks from enter ground water.
Exactly Right. Steel tanks were the leakers from corrosion.
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Old 05-04-2006, 06:49 PM
  #33
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Default Re: Ethanol ???

Linster........ This is a serious problem and I speak from first person knowledge in my own boat..... (recently relaminated at the builder). In addition the in line fuel filter in a friend's Chevy Tahoe is filling repeatedly with a black substance..... since the gas stations in his area changed to 15% ethanol..... The only black item in his fuel system......back up the line....is the black plastic fuel tank....... This isn't just about boats anymore.....think about "gas leaks" in your Escalade.

The black is where the ethanol mixed with the water in the tank. It is a gel that is unusable. The gas floats on top of the gel. Not a gas problem, a problem of the gas station or vehicle from having water in the tank. Get rid of the water and the problems go away.




The point about fibreglass tanks in gas stations is very simple. The government forced all stations with old metal tanks to replace them with fibreglass over the past 25 years or so...because the metal rusted through and leaked.....That was before they realised that Ethanol was coming. In the past 5 years or so a new ethanol resistan resin was developed to solve the problem...and that is why "old" fibreglass tanks in gas stations are being replaced by "new" ones.......

Not exactly right. Steel tanks are still installed today with a Fiberglass or Expoxy exterior coating. They are still 50% of all new tanks being installed today.
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Old 05-04-2006, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: Ethanol ???

Boy! don't you just love politicians?........Unfortunately every time we have an election.......one of them wins.

Hope you don't mind....I'm gonna use that quote!
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Old 05-04-2006, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: Ethanol ???

Russ,

Not the politicians, The EPA!
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Old 05-05-2006, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: Ethanol ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linster
If they are built the best, why are they having fuel tank problems????? AS I said, Alternate fuels have not been any mystery for the last few years. I agree Skater makes a great hull, they just screwed up on the tank, why cant you accept that????

Same message to TomFTM

This has been on the horizon for years, why do you think there are hybreads or Hydrogen cars???
please!!!! boat companies are just starting to fix the problem. skater and other top builders now have their hands full, if they new what to use on the tanks that would work with ethanol the would have.so now they are being built. to with stand ethanol. maybe time will tell
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Old 05-05-2006, 08:54 AM
  #37
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Default Re: Ethanol ???

Linster:

the bottom line is that if the government....politicians and political appointees...had done some homework...and realised that there are a lot of items in the fuel pipeline from origin to end user that would be harmed by Ethanol...a caustic substance.... and created a long term plan with appropriate warnings and an allowance for a non ethanol blend for vehicles unable to use it.... We would not have this mess.

It seems to me that blaming small businesses like boat manufacturers for not using the specific resin..... that was developed for ethanol applications ( and marketed to the gas station/petroleum industry quietly.....but not the boating industry)...in spite of the fact that very few people realised the stuff even existed....is a bit simplistic....... and unrealistic...given that this was an unexpected, nationwide phenomenon..... (Skater conducted numerous tests for many fuels, additives, and beverage fluids over the years...including red wine....but excluding corn alcohol -ethanol...and found no degradation).

By the way the black substance i mentioned was very stringy.... and regardless of whether it came from the tank itself...or a mix of water....it sure can't do an engine any good......

It is obvious that modifications need to be made to engine fuel systems, FUel metering settings in EFI, fuel tanks, fuel stabilizers for winter storage, gas stations, pipelines, blending hardware at refineries, and, I'm sure, other items that neither of us is familiar with.

Or.....we can sit back and say ...it's "overblown" and wait until we smell gasoline dripping out of our lawnmower/snow blower/chain saw/Toyota.....etc.

T2x
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Old 05-05-2006, 10:33 AM
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Default Re: Ethanol ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by T2x
Linster:

the bottom line is that if the government....politicians and political appointees...had done some homework...and realised that there are a lot of items in the fuel pipeline from origin to end user that would be harmed by Ethanol...a caustic substance.... and created a long term plan with appropriate warnings and an allowance for a non ethanol blend for vehicles unable to use it.... We would not have this mess.

It seems to me that blaming small businesses like boat manufacturers for not using the specific resin..... that was developed for ethanol applications ( and marketed to the gas station/petroleum industry quietly.....but not the boating industry)...in spite of the fact that very few people realised the stuff even existed....is a bit simplistic....... and unrealistic...given that this was an unexpected, nationwide phenomenon..... (Skater conducted numerous tests for many fuels, additives, and beverage fluids over the years...including red wine....but excluding corn alcohol -ethanol...and found no degradation).

By the way the black substance i mentioned was very stringy.... and regardless of whether it came from the tank itself...or a mix of water....it sure can't do an engine any good......

It is obvious that modifications need to be made to engine fuel systems, FUel metering settings in EFI, fuel tanks, fuel stabilizers for winter storage, gas stations, pipelines, blending hardware at refineries, and, I'm sure, other items that neither of us is familiar with.

Or.....we can sit back and say ...it's "overblown" and wait until we smell gasoline dripping out of our lawnmower/snow blower/chain saw/Toyota.....etc.

T2x
WELL SAID!!!!
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Old 05-05-2006, 03:03 PM
  #39
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Default Re: Ethanol ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by T2x
Linster:

the bottom line is that if the government....politicians and political appointees...had done some homework...and realised that there are a lot of items in the fuel pipeline from origin to end user that would be harmed by Ethanol...a caustic substance.... and created a long term plan with appropriate warnings and an allowance for a non ethanol blend for vehicles unable to use it.... We would not have this mess.

It seems to me that blaming small businesses like boat manufacturers for not using the specific resin..... that was developed for ethanol applications ( and marketed to the gas station/petroleum industry quietly.....but not the boating industry)...in spite of the fact that very few people realised the stuff even existed....is a bit simplistic....... and unrealistic...given that this was an unexpected, nationwide phenomenon..... (Skater conducted numerous tests for many fuels, additives, and beverage fluids over the years...including red wine....but excluding corn alcohol -ethanol...and found no degradation).

By the way the black substance i mentioned was very stringy.... and regardless of whether it came from the tank itself...or a mix of water....it sure can't do an engine any good......

It is obvious that modifications need to be made to engine fuel systems, FUel metering settings in EFI, fuel tanks, fuel stabilizers for winter storage, gas stations, pipelines, blending hardware at refineries, and, I'm sure, other items that neither of us is familiar with.

Or.....we can sit back and say ...it's "overblown" and wait until we smell gasoline dripping out of our lawnmower/snow blower/chain saw/Toyota.....etc.

T2x
Yes. indeed, very well said.

I have a question. Did GM , Mopar , Ford or any other car manufacture recall and lower the compression ratio in all of there 60's and early 70's muscle cars when we could only get 93 pump gas? . Didn't these major car manufactures know that only lower octane fuel would be available in a few years.
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Old 05-05-2006, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: Ethanol ???

Read this article if you think this is some new idea. This idea was passed in 1988. The Government has done plenty of homework with Manufacturers, Oil Producers, EPA, and state goverments. The boat manufacturers that are having problems did not do there homework. This has been in the pipeline for almost 20 years.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specia...4/article.html

Quote:
Ethanol, a renewable fuel produced from corn and other crops, is already in over 15 percent of the gasoline sold in the United States. Most often it is blended with gasoline to produce a fuel that is 5-10-percent ethanol.

Quote:
A 10-percent blend, called E10, is most common and is required in all gasoline sold in Hawaii, Minnesota and Montana, while a dozen other states are currently considering enacting similar mandates. Because all vehicles sold in the U.S. are made to run on ethanol blends up to E10, the only way to tell you are using a low-level ethanol blend is by checking the label on the pump when you refuel, although not all states require such labeling.

E85 is 85% Ethanol, 15% Gas. Over 5 Million Vehicles in use
Quote:
If you own one of the 5 million E85-capable vehicles, fueling with E85 is not only beneficial to the environment, you'll most likely see a small increase in performance, which will be accompanied by a small decrease in fuel economy. On average, when flexible fuel vehicles are powered by E85, the vehicles have about 5-percent more horsepower and a 10-percent drop in fuel-efficiency. The added power comes from ethanol's higher octane rating (ranging from 100-105). The fuel economy decrease comes from the fact that ethanol has a lower energy content than gasoline, which means you have to use more of it.

I feel for all the Boat Owners with problems. I do not have any sympathy for the builders who have issues and want to blame someone else to avoid a warranty. The Builders need to step up to the plate and Warranty there problems and make it right to the customers.
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