BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

I was thinking of all this speed and hype with boats these days and I had a few thoughts.....

Alot of racing organizations (boats, cars, Nascar, Formula 1, etc....) have been slowing down speeds of their races because of safety issues. As technology improves, so will speeds therefore increasing liabilities.

Nascar has successfully slowed down racecars over the last 5 years or so by regulating the engines, aerodynamics, fuel supply, etc.....for safety of the drivers.

Now the Factory 1 and Factory 2 race boats are being slowed down for safety reasons as well. I do believe they are required to have 496HO motors instaed of the 525's.

Todays Poker Runs are attracting extremely fast boats, they are usually alot faster than most raceboats. I wonder where this will all end? I do realize that with all the R&D comes faster, more efficient powerboats, but safer powerboats? Some of the big cats, and fast V bottoms are running rediculous speeds these days. I am a speed junkie too, but I wonder if we could be doing more harm to our sport by having extremely fast boats---ie, accidents, insurance claims, deaths and insurance premiums going sky high.

what are your thoughts?

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

LOL! I have only been hurt once while boating. I was going dead slow and the engine was off! :rolleyes:

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

I tend to agree. When you have guys running 180 mph in open cockpit boats on an afternoon cruise in the poker run it makes you wonder. But at those speeds there's just too much that can go wrong, there's no time to fix a mistake at that speed.

I love going fast but I think there's a time and a place for everything, save it for the race course.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

I personally think that 140+ is way too fast for pleasure boats. Figure if you are racing, there is alot of medical expertise/ lifeflight on hand to help you. If you are pleasure boating and running that fast, your chances of help are significantly reduced. You are right, with fast speed there is alot that can go wrong-- especially at those speeds.

I look at it this way....how many of us are actually running 125+ mph in our boats? I bet it is a very small percentage. It's cool that some manufacturers can run extremely fast speeds, but I would guess that only 1% of all of us on OSO will actually ever have a boat that runs 160+ anyway. I think in the long run...these speeds are going to really hurt us. I personally think it already has. Our insurance rates are very high.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

Personally, I don't feel the need to go much over 70 myself, but to each their own.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

my thoughts? I couldnt agree more about the insurance end of it, I was the 3rd or 4th poster on the original thread and everyone said I said the sky was falling.:D:D

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

This week there was an accident on our local lake, a very prominent real estate agent was driving a bass boat, late at night, with several people in it, at apparently high speed. Two are dead, one is critical, the driver swam to help. ONe of the dead was his wife, a mother of two small children, all were in their mid 30's.

Each year we have several deaths on the lake here, but almost all are either people diving into shallow water, or in bass boats. Granted on a rare occasion the powerboat community is involved, but it is far more often some guy in a bass boat with 2' freeboard between him and water running 70 mph.

With that thought I think mandatory driving licenses should be required, maybe not to drive, but someone in hte boat should have to attend at least some degree of trainning.

I am as anti-goobernment as anyone, but that stupid azz in the boat beside me who is half drunk and wants to jump waves in his bass boat scares me a bunch more than the local cost guard auxillary retiree....

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

I don't think anyone should regulate horsepower. Safety courses and/or licenses may be good. People need to be safe and follow the rules but If you have the dollars you should be able to build whatever you want. Why would you want someone to mandate what you run in a Poker Run? Then it is totally all over for us.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

well that is been a controversy subject for some time know, when ron polly write that article about safety and how poker run was becoming in races a lot people was upset, but he was speaking the true, poker runs are more fast that a lot of races , there engines are not regulated , in offshore races we have accidents , running lest speed and those guys are professional,
Can you imagine the damage for boater that a high speed boat accident in a poker run can cause?
insurance companies are looking at this situation really close,people and agencies are looking at this really close to.
so if you can't get insurance or permit to run a poker run , how are you going to do it?

in offshore races we have at least 4 to 6 helicopters in the air, plus medicals boat with divers and medic on board , and is only maybe 13 to 15 boat racing at the same time,
HOW much safety a poker run can offer for sometimes hundreds of boat at the time?
know if in top of that you put a lot of speed is going to be a meter of time before something really wrong happen.
well how much a life worst?that is the question,



now think is your life or the life of someone you love,

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

*****not really is suppose to be over the people that organize the poker run, why, well they have to have the right amount of safety resources on hand to run a safe event, like, helicopters with divers, boat with divers and medical personnel , ambulances and hospitals stand by,

why is not like that? well that cost a lot of money , and unfortunately people are always taking chances and putting people in risk.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

Good point. I do think we should be "regulating ourselves" to an extent. Who really needs to go 160+ mph in a boat? Like I mentioned before.....an auto racetrack is the same every single time you run another lap. This is not the case on water and it is much more dangerous.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

you cant regulate stupidity, idiots will be idiots no matter what, just try to stay out of thier way

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

VERY TRUE. I think boating classes or training can be helpful. Just because someone can afford a 140+mph boat doesn't mean they have the talent to run it safely.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

so true, how many of these fast boat owners just walked in and bought these boats with no training at all?

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

I have been a member of United States Power Sqadrons since I was a teenager. I do not believe that we need a seperate lisense to operate a boat. BUT I believe that to register a boat you should provide a certificate that you took a safety course from either USPS or the Coast Guard. Does not matter who. As you all know, anyone with a checkbook can go into any boat dealership and buy a 160mph boat with no experience what so ever. Lets just show that we have taken some sort of course and at least have some basic knowedge.

I used to race Nascar Winston West and before they would let you race on a large track (1mile or more) you had to race on a smaller track to show the nascar people that you knew how to handle a car and not take out everyone else on the track. I lived 4 miles from the california speedway and when it opened I wanted to drive there but nascar made me go to a 1/2 mile track and then a 1 mile track before they let me on Fontana. They don't want someone with a large checkbook taking out one of their stars with stupidity.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

A boaters safety course is good in general, but in a realistic world its not going to change anything for the guy with the fat checkbook and 150 mph boat.

I think these idiots on Jet Skis should be required to take some kind of course. After yesterday, Im gonna start packin a pototo launcher and start knocking them off one by one. :mad:

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

Poker run organizers should be responcible for every single participants safety PERIOD. All that is required is a rule the governs top speed to no more than that of the official pace boat. Its that simple. Pass the pace boat, you're out. End of discussion. Then, the organizers just have to nut up and set a SAFE top speed and stick to it. Its not up to the participants in a race to set and enforce the rules, it shouldn't be up to poker runners either. The safety of all rests on the shoulders of the few. They should have the brains and the balls to ensure it. The future os the sport requires it.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

My thoughts here were not to let an organization or our government control us....what I was thinking was for us to regulate ourselves. before we can't have any fun.

I do agree that ANYONE driving a powerboat, jet sji, etc... should take a USCG/PowerSquadron course to have some kind of boating knowlegde for safety reasons. I gurantee that would reduce the amount of incidents.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

YES. They scare me worse than anyone. The least experienced of all people on the water are generally the PWC riders. 12 year olds, to 50 years olds, riding borrowed or rented equipment. They don't look, they don't try to stay in a general traffic direction, and they don't care.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

I took a saftey coarse to get a license, and while they are good for basic boating rules and regulations, none of it was geared for, or prepared me to operate a boat at a fast speed. I think we need to use good judgement ourselves...........

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

here is my thought for what it is worth! stop being puzzies, the faster the better, if someone get's hurt that is to bad. same with snowmobiles, motorcycles, etc...... the fact is sometimes people get hurt or killed, that is just the way it is.... let's not let it ruin everybodies fun. I don't need you or anybody else telling me how fast my toys can go.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

I just wish (MY) Insurance was reflected in my own safety record :mad:

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

here is me, I speek from experiance

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

SF, I was not suggsting that anyone needs to control the possible top speed of a boat but rather the "organizer" of a poker run has to control the "event" for the safety of all participants In my opinion, the safety of the many outweighs the need to satiate the egos of the few..

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

just an example of how responsable people are, is someone like this hurt one of my kids or my wife , will be no trial, he will not make hes way to court,

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

the rule generally is "what risk does an activity posie to others", once that question is answered it becomes clear when things should, and should not, be regulated. Regulations are not there to stop the speed boat driver from going fast, it is to protect the innocnet bystander.

It is a slipery slope, if people want to take chances with their own property and life, they should be allowed, but not if it means at the same time putting those who have had no say at risk.

BTW - I am a speed nut too, currently building motors to try and go ever faster, so I say this with some hesitation

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

The insurance companies will keep upping the premiums until it not feasible to own the 160mph boats. Inland lakes will start putting speed limits on water ways making it hard to boat inland. By limiting the use the manufactures will follow by building slower boats to sell to the boating public.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

I guess it must be different in every state...but in Connecticut, you have to take a boaters safety course in order to get your boating license. Then if you want to use a PWC, you have to take a whole different course for that. At the same time, you can take both classes in one day and it is only a 10 hour class, but I guess thats better than nothing.

Any sport/activity involving speed involves risk. There are a million ways to die...one of them is in a fast boat. Another is slipping on the deck of your sailboat while its docked, hitting your head on a cleat and falling in the water. But I don't like sailboats, I like fast boats, so thats the risk I take. I try not to involve other people in that risk by staying at a reasonable speed and being as careful as possible when other people are on the boat. Maybe I am a pothead and none of that makes sense, but thats just how I feel.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

I think yours is the irresponsible post. You would intentionally cause injury to someone that accidentally caused injury. By your logic we should kill all the little old ladies that run stop signs and cause accidents. Your suggestion is irresponsible and criminal. I thought you were a first responder. You don't sound like you have a very high regard for human life.

The rest of you seem to value "freedom from" more than "freedom to". Every time you provide the masses freedom FROM something, you limit my freedom TO DO something. You sound like the retirees in Flirida that move to the water and then want to ban powerboats because they are too loud.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I enjoy the freedom of my boat. I enjoy going out to the open water and driving my boat fast. I like to feel it accelerate and I like to feel it fly. I am careful, and I keep a safe distance from other boats. If someone gets hurt, I tried not to be a danger to anyone, but it happens.

You folks have to realize -- we can be as safe in this world as we want to be. We can make highway speed limits 5 mph. We can outlaw boats and airplanes completely. We can require people to wear padding similar to football players whenever they get out of bed. Everyone can have freedom from danger. But there goes my "freedom to".

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

i don't have nothing against speed , but yes i have against irresponsible that run excessive speed in Commons areas where people and there families go to enjoy a day, you want to race fast if ok with me , if you do it in the open where no body got hurt

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

I never said I go out of my way to endanger innocent people or am I uncertious on the water in anyway. My issue is with gov't, insurance companies, enviormental freaks always wanting to regulate everything. Just because somebody has an accident at high speed doesn't mean it should ruin it for everybody. In Germany when there is a 200mph accident on the highway, they just hose down the road and re-open the highway, there are no lawsuits, no gov't hearings on safety, they just chalk it up as an unfortunate inncodent and move on.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

Don't talk to me about freedom. I spent 8 years of MY life in The Marines so people like YOU can have your freedoms.

I don't want our freedom(s) taken away either, but, there are way too many idiots out on the water in boats and PWC that always hurt someone else from their stupid, negligent mistakes. That problem has to change.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

I misunderstood your post , sorry man :drink:

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

i agree 100% with you in that, and irresponsible people are making the responsible one pay for their mistake, regulations and insurance premiums are changing because of that,

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

i will not have a problem helping some one that have a car accident and hurt my family, a true accident, but is someone drunk hit my family, well that's a different story, why because that person is irresponsible and should not be driving, same with boats, if someone have and accident that can't be avoid well that one thing, but someone running 100+ miles in areas where people are enjoying the day that is irresponsible, and you will not like this for some one that you love either

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

How many deaths and serious injuries on the water happen to or are caused by high speed (100+ ) boats?

Its a VERY small number. The vast majority of water accidents are caused by people in everyday boats that have been drinking, or just have no clue what they are doing. Take a look at the hit and run guy that Sharkey posted. a slow cruiser.

If we could make people take a USPS or USCGA class in EVERY state before they got on the water, it would help a lot. I taught USPS safety classes for 10 years, and believe me, most of the peope in them had no clue when they started. or worse, they THOUGHT they knew what they were doing. Not to pick on "old timers" but in many classes, I would have them argue with me when we were teaching something, and tell me that I was wrong because they had been doing it their way for 50 years. Those are the scary people.

If we could stop the morons that jump on a friends jet ski, or dart in and out of boat traffic with them we'd also stop a lot of accidents.

Regulating speed on the water is not going to do anything to cut down on accidents/deaths. If you hit an other boat at 45 mph, you are going to be hurt, and hurt bad. and the people running at this speed are the ones I had in class that think they know it all. I know people with a 38' Sea Ray who run in the ocean off NJ. Their idea of fun is to take several cases of beer out and drink all day. Then they think they can still operate that boat. and they DID take the USPS class from me. But if you ask them, drinking all day is okay, and they are still able to operate that boat. NOT

Are there guys out there with 100+++mph boats that are idiots? I'm sure there are, but they are a very small minority of the total boats and an even smaller cause of accidents. Even with the very very high speed that are run in poker runs today, I only remember 2 or 3 accidents in the last couple years, and thats out of hundreds of boats that have run them.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

Thanks for your service. I appreciate my freedom and yours. I have practiced criminal defense for the last 12 years so that people like you can have your freedom, too.

I agree about some of it, but I think you are missing the point. We performance boat owners are not the problem. The majority of people that are injured on the water are on PWCs or or smaller boats. It isn't the performance boater that is injuring them, either. These are the low budget uneducated boaters that are getting themselves into problems.

Just yesterday, we were parked on the beach in a crowded part of the river. A bass boat flies by at speed and jumps the wake of the ski boat in front of it. He was about 30 yards off the bank and he came completely out of the water. He jumped the wake on the side closest to the beach where everyone was parked. How little would it have taken for him to land wrong on another wake and get out of shape and end up running it into the crowd? Carelessness is what kills people, not people going fast.

PWCs? Show me someone on OSO that hasn't had a PWC turn in front of them unexpectedly. At least performance boaters have to write a large check to get a fast boat. You can finance a PWC for about a hundred fifty bucks a month. I dare say most people are more concerned about destroying a 25 foot Baja than a financed PWC. It is that concern that makes us THINK about our actions more.

Again, what I am getting at is WE AREN'T THE PROBLEM!!! So regulating us (self or governmentally) isn't the solution.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

Not trying to start a pissing match with you, but you can't even compare the two. Not even close.

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

Lets not turn this into this.


BTY, THANKS for serving. "I" appreciate it!!! QAnyone that spent 8 years in the USMC has way bigger balls than I do. and I'm VERY glad you guys are out there!!!

Re: BOATING SAFETY-- what do you think?
 

[QUOTE=the duke
Are there guys out there with 100+++mph boats that are idiots? I'm sure there are, but they are a very small minority of the total boats and an even smaller cause of accidents. Even with the very very high speed that are run in poker runs today, I only remember 2 or 3 accidents in the last couple years, and thats out of hundreds of boats that have run them.[/QUOTE]

I think the bigger question is how many guys out there have the real knowledge and skill to SAFELY operate a 100+++mph boat. Not what they perceive as that knowledge and skill but the actual, required knowledge. Now, take an underskilled driver in a 140 mph boat and drop him in the middle of a poker run fleet where many other boat operators lack some of the necessary knowledge and skills and have something, anything go wrong. Dangerous?

Do I think that some Mr. Deep Pockets that buys a 140 mph offshore just because he can, with no knowledge is dangerous? Dam right I do but I also think some 12 yr old kid or renter on a PWC is dangerous too. As performance boaters, one of these we can help to make less dangerous. The other, well.............eventually the odds will sort that one out. I just hope myself, my family or friends aren't the ones that the Darwin award winner taskes out.