Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Do you feel that the powerboat industry is moving in the wrong direction in any way? If so what?

I don't like the mid cabin open bow boats...look silly.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

like they say "theres an a$$ for every seat"
what may not be up your alley is just what the next guy is looking for.......i never liked the look of the deck boats till my dad got one! Now i think they are the coolest thing out there! what other boat can you fit 12 people on a 19' boat and still do 40mph!!! :D

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Opinion only. What concerns me is the number of boats that are capable of running triple digits on reasonable factory horsepower. I dont know the numbers but there are people that purchase these boats because they can and have very little or no experience driving at those speeds. Just because the boat feals stable doesnt mean it's safe. I think there needs to be something put in place to educate those who fall in that catagory.

Jerry.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Whether or not mid-cabin layouts appeal to you and me isn't relevant. (For what it's worth, I also think a closed deck look cleaner.) Anything that expands the choices for buyers is, from an industry point of view, a good thing. They might "look silly," but if people want mid cabins that's a good thing.

Choice is arguably the greatest benefit of capitalism and the entire free market system. You and I like a closed deck. The guy down the street wants a mid cabin. If the boat in question was suited for it, a builder would have to be out of his mind not to offer it in both styles.

I think the high-performance segment is headed in the right direction in that, for the most part, it's downplaying speed as a selling point. The reason for this, insurability of products, is obvious. But the truth is that top speed really isn't the end all and be all of performance boats. It's kind of nice sometimes to cruise at 60 mph and actually see the area you're passing through.

Not that going twice that speed isn't a rush, but speed is not everything. I think most of the industry, motivated by self preservation to be sure, has realized that.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Some of them are able to be classified as "bow riders" and "deck boats" which allow them to be much more affordable in the insurance department. If you are a lake boater, and don't overnight on your boat, the openbow is a great layout.

I personally would not own one, but many of them are very nice.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Some of the pricing is getting out of hand IMHO.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

My mid cabin open bow easily seats a mix of 12-14 adults and children. The kids get to enjoy tubing, kneeboarding and skiing. With deep seating in the bow it is very comfortable to take a 60 mph cruise when the water is safe.

Of course, I like to dump the kids and open her up.... :D

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It's all a matter of taste I guess. I wouldn't own a mid cabin if it looked like the west coast versions. Sunsation mid cabins look good IMO. :cool:

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Prices of all high-end luxury products, paid for by "disposable income," are all out of hand. On the go-fast boat side, I'd guess that manufacturing costs due to environmental regulations and liability are the biggest drivers in price escalation. I don't think greed is an issue ... talk to a few boat builders, at least on the high-perf side, and you'll find a common theme.

It's a tough business.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

trim that baby down before you kill your gimbal !! Artificial tails will come back to haunt you.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

I may be superficial, but never artificial :drink:

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

wow. what a set-up. How bout more pics?? Very cool.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Being in this industry there has been a slight turn in the style of performance boating.Affordability, insurance, household income is more a key factor in today's market. He likes the speed, paint, braided
hoses, rumbles,and the fastest boat out there.She needs amenities such as
room, the poti potty, comfort ,storage and inviting the family and friends for a fun day on the water.
Building a boat to please is what has happened in the direction of Mid-Cabin Open Bows and Performance Center Consoles.Those particular types of boats still bring the flash, dash and bling in their own way.We are see more and more of this new trend to continue.You can load them up with high horsepower I/O"S or supercharged outboards and your insurance is not as high if it were a full closed deck High Performance offshore with identical options.You are seeing more and more of this trend.
Center Consoles are just not for fishing anymore having a performance hull, an enclosed half cabin along with drop down bolsters,Racing shifters, wild paint graphics,with room to please.The Mid-Cabin open bow with everything. your seeing more and more at Poker Runs.This is about satisfied customers and boat builders making this all happen.
.
.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

:D :D :D That's a Pulse Drive isn't it?

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Bow riders are great. If i had a small v they woudl be the way to go. I used to have a 16 whaler open bow and loved it. Easy to dock, holds lots of people. The education thing is true, but what stops those same people from buying ferraris and racing them down the highway? Its not like it takes an skill to pass a driving test.
The prices are getting out of hand because they are no longer being built with a tub of resin by someone that says, yeah, that looks about right.

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Exactly! This is first and foremost a BUSINESS! :D

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

neat...so the whole swim platform trims up and down with the prop shaft attached to it? Is this durable?

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Yes, and yes.

http://www.pulsedrive.net/

But, others have stated they lost handling capability by going to Pulse.
The Zero Cavity 38 McManus Cigarette Top Gun went from SSM to Pulse and BACK to SSM; if that tells you anything.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

how do you turn? Rudder in the middle?

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

I don't personally like bow riders, but they serve a purpose. A friend of mine has a 28' Chaparral bowrider - his second one. He lives on the water, has never and will never overnight on the boat, and always takes a bunch of people out with him.
Why does he need a cabin? To him, it's only wasted space. Can't argue with his logic.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

I agree with you on 90% of Mid-Cabin boats but if the lines of the boat are the same as the closed bow version then I like the Mid-Cabins.

I bought 32 Sunsation specifically because of the MCOB. i was shopping a 35 Executioner and the 32 Sunsation. These were the only two boats in contention for my needs/budget. In FL the no wake zones can be plentiful and I will never overnight on a boat unless it has A/C so a v-berth would be a total waste of time for my uses. The open bow gives more seating for the kids at idle and creates a killer breeze through the cabin when they are hanging out down there in the shade. I never even heard of Sunsation until a guy passed me in one and it was the nice lines of the boat and the open bow that caught my eye. Six weeks after seeing my first Sunsation MCOB I bought mine. If I didn't have kids I would probably not own one but makes the boat more user friendly for us.

http://www.flpowerboat.com/new/photo.../05-11-087.cfm

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

The 32 Sunsation mid cabin does have great lines. If I'm not mistaken (and I could be), that model has its own mid cabin deck tooling rather than being a closed deck boat with a hole cut out up front. It looks finished and proportional.

Another mid cabin looker, or at least offered in a mid cabin, is the 28 Donzi. Great lines there, too.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

The real problem is with the POWER PACKAGES pushing the prices thru the roof.(hello Mercury :rolleyes: )

The builders have become more efficient, and the hulls are much faster, but the engine/drive combos are pushing the prices out of reach. Like Merc. finally building a drive worth owning(NXT1) and only offering it with the 700's as a package....... :mad:

Add the fact that they won't warranty a drive if it's hooked to another engine and you have the root of all problems.

Just my .02

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

pulse drive way cool :cool: How do you like it? not many out there I have alwats wondered about them.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

CB,

Are you going to Sarasota this weekend for the PR?
You seem to travel the PR circuit in FL.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

I would like to see somone do a 30 to 32 ft old school style single. something with free board and cabin space that would run at least 70mph and give you a nice easy 55 to 60 mph range with out beating the motor to death. also INS. shouldn't be bad if you could do it with one Ilmor or a 525 hp. not one of the sit down boats eather. But I agree that speeds are getting outa controll with to many people with the money and not the experince. just my 2cts :rolleyes:

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Yes, twin rudders in the middle for steering. The entire drive platform trims up and down. Makes a great swim platform. At rest, the top of the platform is level with the surface of the water when it's trimmed all the way up.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

I will not be attending. I've done my share of Sarasota runs, and I'm probably headed for Lake Cumberland next week.

I will definitely be at the FPC Land-N-Sea and KW pr's though.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

I went with the Pulsedrive out of necessity. It was the only way to get twin engines in the boat and still have U shaped seating in the cockpit. The trimmable platform is great for watersports and the Huber-modified ZF trannies shift smooth and are darn near bulletproof. It handles around the docks like a dream. I am still working on prop selection though. I have too much prop slip right now. Larger diameter props are on the way.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Cash Bar,

I hear you on the price of engines--they do seem outrageous, and not just from Mercury. It's easy to have $200,000 worth of power in $200,000 worth of hull.

But on the drive thing, I have to ask you: What possible incentive could there be for Mercury to warranty its drives for another builders engines? Mercury is hardly a charitable concern. They're part of a huge public company, and as a public company their largest responsibility is profitability. Stock brokers out there, feel free to chime in at anytime.

Mercury wants to sell engine and drive packages. They have no reason to offer drive warranties with other builders' engines. A little harsh maybe, but there it is.

You could call it greed, I guess, unless you happened to be a shareholder. In that case it would just be ... good business.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

100, I understand the economics, I was just answering his question where I saw a problem. I think Conrad and others are doing what they can, but as long as things are built with "conditions"(only w/a package,etc.) it is bad for the industry.

It also took all my strength, to not say the BIGGEST problem is disreputable dealers, salesmen and mechanics exascerbating an already fragile and expensive hobby. Remember, to my knowledge, I am the only two time loser here on the board when it comes to dealer fraud.

And I still want to buy a damn boat...... :eek: :rolleyes:

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Oh, and on the incentive for Merc to warranty their drives, Goodyear(Toyo,etc.) don't give a fvck whose wheel you attach your tires to. If it's defective, it gets replaced.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

far to much focus on sales, and very little focus on repair, maintenance, and maintaining resale value.

Merc needs to offer small discounts to shops with merc certifed techs, to promote education.

as it is there is a massive shortage of trained techs, this will lead to poorer and poorer service, resulting in a more and mroe distant buying public.

Harley Davidson is a great model to watch how a company can make its employees, dealers, buyers, and stake holders happy over the long term, and no where in their plan is a shortage of tech's part of the equasion...

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Hey, I said dealers, salesmen AND MECHANICS...... :rolleyes: :D

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Mid Cabins are cool

i havfe a 32 and a 28 in stock and they get more atention at a boat show than any thing else

I too like the look of the closed bow but you cant egnore the popularity of the new mid cabins

SUNSATION keeping up with what the market desires and still filling the go fast need

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

This is one of the cooles looking Mid cabins i have seen

It is a 32' Looks good and runs great and mom and the kids seem to like it much bettter

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Pros:
*Quality of boats are way up.
*Quality of engine packages with I/O and outboards is way way up
*People can afford bigger boats than ever before
*Poker Runs are very popular and give people a great way to use performance boats.
* Outerlimits including the Tres Martin school with the purchase of boats

Cons:
*Driving skills of owners of performance boats
*Insurance
*Marine industry as a whole need to improve on people skills in the service area.
*Too many ripp off service centers and misinformed Mercury approved mechanics.
*Racing needs to be fixed.
*Poker Runs can not alone carry the interest of performance boaters
* manufactures need to step up and qualify people buying certain boats.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Demand Rules

If people want more mid cabins then the people are whacked... the industry has to cater to the demand...

So essentially the majority of people are moving in the wrong direction... nothing new there it helps achievers prevail... :drink:

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Cash,

No offense intended ... I wasn't trying to give you an economics lesson. However, the tire/outdrive comparison doesn't hold. Tire failures tend to come either inherent defects or road damage. You don't often hear someone say, "Yeah, the tire blew because it was on a Corvette."

Too much power, on the other hand, can blow drives. We all know that. If Mercury were to provide warranties on its drives for any engine, you can imagine the potential for claims. How could a buyer prove his engine falls into the range the drive is rated for? Supply a dyno sheet? Please. The potential for fraud is endless.

Plus, as you know because you understand economics, there is zero incentive for Mercury, an engine builder, to warranties its drives (which next to its engines are a low-cost item) for other builders' engines. Why on earth would they want to do that? It might help you, the customer, but it would also help their competitors. And Mercury is less than fond of its competitors.

Does that policy, that Merc won't warranty its drives for engines other than its own, hurt the industry? Certainly, there are no hard numbers to support that. It does suck somewhat if you bought another builder's 500-hp engine, which is probably why Ilmor teamed up with Teague for a drive package ... with a warranty.

The good news is the competition is growing. Konrad's Ace drive is strong, from what I've heard. Ilmor will introduce a drive (Paul Ray of Ilmor said that in a PB interview a few months ago) and I'll bet it will be excellent, like Ilmor's engines.

As for the dealer stuff, I couldn't agree with you more. You're not a two-time loser. You're a smart guy with a passion for an expensive hobby who had two crappy experiences with scumbags. Unfortunately, those experiences are all too common. The problem with those kinds of dealers is that they don't just suck at sale time ... they suck in service, support and the entire time you own the boat.

Re: Powerboat industry wrong direction?
 

Three years ago I would have kicked my own ass for just thinking about a bowrider. After a couple of seasons of leaving half my family and friends at the dock while tooling around in my Talon, enough was enough. Sold the Talon, next boat will definately be a bowrider/midcabin or performance CC like a Concept.