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Ilmor 700 vs. Mercury 700?

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Old 09-24-2006, 02:45 PM
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Default Re: Ilmor 700 vs. Mercury 700?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raylar
Let's not hasten to any quick snap decisions here.
First, Ilmor is making some wonderful engine packages and the new 700 seems to be a real nice piece. Ilmor has had good sucess with its engine packages up to this point and they should continue in this trend.
But lets be carefull to look at a few facts.
First the Ilmor motor makes its peak power at 6100rpms and its torque maxes at 650 ft./lbs at about 4400rpms. The Merc 700 makes its peak power at 5300rpms and makes substaintialy more torque over 750 ft/lbs between 4000 rpms and 5000rpms.

The lower weight of the ilmor package will be an bit of an advantage in a twin installations although when Ilmor releases a new heavier drive for this engine in the long term who knows what the weight advantage will be? This engine is going to give the current drives they are using a bit of an overload in long term use.

When you really consider that most high performance boaters still spend over 80% of their boating hours between 3500 and 4400 rpms its really important to make real world comparisons of torque and power at these rpms where the motors spend almost all of their running time.

The Merc 700's as supercharged will obviously not have the longer engine life of a naturally aspirated motor but the higher rpm range of the Ilmor 700 will limit its engine life also and neither of these motors will be an inexpensive rebuild.
This is why we at Raylar still believe that the naturally aspirated big cubic inch-high torque, moderate rpm motors still represent the best power / versus cost benefit in marine high performance engines.

Our HO750 -600 inch normally aspirated motor makes 765 hp at 5200rpms, 850 foot pound of torque at 4200rpms and freshwater cooled complete ready to drop in and run sells for just under $32K. This motor will also give real 500-750 hour engine life in real world use.
Let me review here, 50 more horsepower, more torque, longer engine life, and no supercharging or high rpms to make power, What's right with this picture?!!

Ray @ Raylar
big inch motors are also hard to make live i ? 500 to 750 hrs i have NEVER seen a big inch motor last that long. is the motor dry sump oiling? that's the only i would build a 600 inch motor and run it hard for long periods of time like in a poker run
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Old 09-24-2006, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: Ilmor 700 vs. Mercury 700?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raylar
Let's not hasten to any quick snap decisions here.
First, Ilmor is making some wonderful engine packages and the new 700 seems to be a real nice piece. Ilmor has had good sucess with its engine packages up to this point and they should continue in this trend.
But lets be carefull to look at a few facts.
First the Ilmor motor makes its peak power at 6100rpms and its torque maxes at 650 ft./lbs at about 4400rpms. The Merc 700 makes its peak power at 5300rpms and makes substaintialy more torque over 750 ft/lbs between 4000 rpms and 5000rpms.

The lower weight of the ilmor package will be an bit of an advantage in a twin installations although when Ilmor releases a new heavier drive for this engine in the long term who knows what the weight advantage will be? This engine is going to give the current drives they are using a bit of an overload in long term use.

When you really consider that most high performance boaters still spend over 80% of their boating hours between 3500 and 4400 rpms its really important to make real world comparisons of torque and power at these rpms where the motors spend almost all of their running time.

The Merc 700's as supercharged will obviously not have the longer engine life of a naturally aspirated motor but the higher rpm range of the Ilmor 700 will limit its engine life also and neither of these motors will be an inexpensive rebuild.
This is why we at Raylar still believe that the naturally aspirated big cubic inch-high torque, moderate rpm motors still represent the best power / versus cost benefit in marine high performance engines.

Our HO750 -600 inch normally aspirated motor makes 765 hp at 5200rpms, 850 foot pound of torque at 4200rpms and freshwater cooled complete ready to drop in and run sells for just under $32K. This motor will also give real 500-750 hour engine life in real world use.
Let me review here, 50 more horsepower, more torque, longer engine life, and no supercharging or high rpms to make power, What's right with this picture?!!

Ray @ Raylar
What I have found is 3-400 hours if taken care of on a strict maint. schedule with 10-20 hour oil change intervals, is what the typical hi-end engine builder will get out of 598-602 C.I. with all the correct parts. What are you guys doing different, vs the competition. Thanks Jeff
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Old 09-24-2006, 11:15 PM
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Wink Re: Ilmor 700 vs. Mercury 700?

Up to this point there have not been any real big inch BBC motors where the builders have been using closed cooling and electronic ECM based computer control. With closed cooling the engine is always operating at optimum engine coolant and oil temperatures with adequate oil cooling. Add to this very efficient fuel injection manifolds, exhaust and excellent fuel and spark management with proper air fuel ratios and you can have a big inch motor with excellent service life. With todays oils, good service intervals and better technology in piston and ring packages along with a stabil long life valve train and you have all thats needed to see this type of motor see 500 hours plus in high performance recreational use. We are not talking racing applications or poker run only use here. The boaters who wnat to use their boats in those uses will have to live with whatever they can obtain. The new technologies are here now, you just have to use them.

Ray @ Raylar
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Old 09-25-2006, 08:22 AM
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Default Re: Ilmor 700 vs. Mercury 700?

Ray, 32k includes the headers??
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Old 09-25-2006, 09:25 AM
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Default Re: Ilmor 700 vs. Mercury 700?

ok now the v-10's in the vipers are making 1400 to 1500 horsepower to the rear wheels with superchargers or turbos plus you can stroke them to a 522 and the make between 800 and 900hp naturally aspirated depending on the cam so if you want to compare a built bbc to a v-10 you better look again
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Old 09-25-2006, 10:39 AM
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Default Re: Ilmor 700 vs. Mercury 700?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raylar
Up to this point there have not been any real big inch BBC motors where the builders have been using closed cooling and electronic ECM based computer control. With closed cooling the engine is always operating at optimum engine coolant and oil temperatures with adequate oil cooling. Add to this very efficient fuel injection manifolds, exhaust and excellent fuel and spark management with proper air fuel ratios and you can have a big inch motor with excellent service life. With todays oils, good service intervals and better technology in piston and ring packages along with a stabil long life valve train and you have all thats needed to see this type of motor see 500 hours plus in high performance recreational use. We are not talking racing applications or poker run only use here. The boaters who wnat to use their boats in those uses will have to live with whatever they can obtain. The new technologies are here now, you just have to use them.

Ray @ Raylar
so you as a builder have no 500 hr. + big inch motors out there yet? Also if i never ran mine over 4000 rpm i thank it would last forever who is going to build a big inch high performance motor and not run it hard at least part of the time

Last edited by mikes280; 09-25-2006 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 09-25-2006, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: Ilmor 700 vs. Mercury 700?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickin32
ok now the v-10's in the vipers are making 1400 to 1500 horsepower to the rear wheels with superchargers or turbos plus you can stroke them to a 522 and the make between 800 and 900hp naturally aspirated depending on the cam so if you want to compare a built bbc to a v-10 you better look again

Not at the sustained RPM's that marine motors experience durring their life. Anybody can pack serious air or nitrous into a motor and get some life out of it....
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Old 09-25-2006, 11:56 AM
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Default Re: Ilmor 700 vs. Mercury 700?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickin32
ok now the v-10's in the vipers are making 1400 to 1500 horsepower to the rear wheels with superchargers or turbos plus you can stroke them to a 522 and the make between 800 and 900hp naturally aspirated depending on the cam so if you want to compare a built bbc to a v-10 you better look again
you can make SBC make those numbers, but not in a boat....
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Old 09-25-2006, 12:51 PM
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Default Re: Ilmor 700 vs. Mercury 700?

I think that one of the most important things no one is looking at is the methodology of the HP rating itself.

Mercury is giving you a NET hp of 700 to the water so it is more than likely making some 750ish or more hp.

Is Ilmor giving the same or are they making a 700 hp engine that is then losing hp through the drive unit?

Some out drives consume more hp than others, some weigh more than others. But Merc has moved to a NET hp engine package not a gross.
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Old 09-25-2006, 12:53 PM
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Default Re: Ilmor 700 vs. Mercury 700?

yes you can but the torque numbers are 1150 and higher can you do that in a sbc and torque is what you want in a boat motor
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