Like Tree0Likes

Fountain New Kilo Record by Miami Show!

Closed Thread
Old 12-14-2006, 10:48 PM
  #51
Who Me?
Platinum Member
Thread Starter
 
FeverMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Tampa
My Boats: 2006 38TE Fountain
Posts: 6,656
Default Re: Fountain New Kilo Record by Miami Show!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100-Plus
FeverMike,

I'm still a newby (and I still need to pony up for a real membership, I know), but I have to ask: What technology, exactly, is trickling down from kilo runs? Or is it just a matter of engine builders making 1,500-hp (and then some) engines that will live long enough to survive a kilo.

In auto racing, you can point to things like paddle shifters that have made their way into consumer sports cars. But I'm curious as to what comes, in the form of technology, from a kilo run. And I'm not asking to be a wiseguy. I'm genuinely curious. If we're talking hull advances, it would be cool to know what they are.

Some of the knowledge gained might be proprietary to a company like Fountain, I know. But then to say something like, "We learned all this from kilo runs and racing, and then leave the "all this" undefined doesn't make the case. It comes off as marketing-speak.

Anyway, I'm sure you can point out a few things. And I sure could use the education. Thanks.
100plus and Rippem, hull technology for one is a major part of the trickle down from kilos and racing. Yesterdays 80mph 35-41 foot boat were considered extremely fast and only race boats could do those speeds with 700hp or larger engines. Today 38 foot pure pleasure boats (not only Fountain) are doing those speeds with 525hp and much smoother and safer. Also bigger supercharged engines are more reliable and easy to use around the dock. All this comes from kilo runs and of course racing.
Lay up schedules, type of materials used, drive heights, tabs postions, balance of the boat, placments of steps, geometry of steps, pads, chines and strakes, aerodynamics of the hull and deck all come from R&D to make a boat go faster on the race course or the kilo run. these improvments obviously trickles down to Fountain pleasure boats.
So far it only seems Fountain is the company who excells at proper R&D. Fountain does not give up win or lose. Other company's try this and fail and then quit and give up. I loved the Scarab vs Fountain race and Kilo wars of the 90's. Scarab one some and Fountain won some. Scarab kept coming back improving there race boats and pleasure boats. Unfortuantly Wellcraft Scarb gave up and Fountain is still going to this day. Where are the other manufactures? Cigarette came close a few months ago but never went back to work on the hull...why did they give up? I hope someone steps up to the plate and improves upon there design.
FeverMike is offline  
Old 12-14-2006, 11:36 PM
  #52
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 227
Default Re: Fountain New Kilo Record by Miami Show!

That's kind of the answer I was after, FeverMike, so thanks. But I'm really interested in specifics. When you say "hull technology," what exactly does that mean? Step height, placement and venting? Strake geometry? Deck aerodynamics? All of the above and more?

My theory, and I make no claim that it is inarguable, is that the biggest change here is horsepower that doesn't blow up after one hard run. The engines available now simply weren't available back in the day. Remember when 700 hp was major? Now it's right in the middle of the Mercury Racing line.

So I tend to agree with T2X, not so much about the "hype" factor but that power has more to do with the big speeds and "efficiency" we're seeing in today's V-bottoms.

As for the statement that only Fountain excels at proper R & D, I'm sure there are plenty of other V-bottom and catamaran builders that would take issue with that.

Again, thanks for the information. I do appreciate your perspective.
100-Plus is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 12:30 AM
  #53
Who Me?
Platinum Member
Thread Starter
 
FeverMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Tampa
My Boats: 2006 38TE Fountain
Posts: 6,656
Default Re: Fountain New Kilo Record by Miami Show!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100-Plus
That's kind of the answer I was after, FeverMike, so thanks. But I'm really interested in specifics. When you say "hull technology," what exactly does that mean? Step height, placement and venting? Strake geometry? Deck aerodynamics? All of the above and more?

My theory, and I make no claim that it is inarguable, is that the biggest change here is horsepower that doesn't blow up after one hard run. The engines available now simply weren't available back in the day. Remember when 700 hp was major? Now it's right in the middle of the Mercury Racing line.

So I tend to agree with T2X, not so much about the "hype" factor but that power has more to do with the big speeds and "efficiency" we're seeing in today's V-bottoms.


As for the statement that only Fountain excels at proper R & D, I'm sure there are plenty of other V-bottom and catamaran builders that would take issue with that.


Again, thanks for the information. I do appreciate your perspective.
1-Yes that is what I'm talking about. Since we are speaking of Fountain, look at the hulls from the late 90's and today. The steps and strakes, geometry are different.

2-Yes that is somewhat what I was saying. Power today is much more reliable that yesterday. But again if you put twin 500hp in a 1990 38 Cig and then put the same power in a Fountain, OL or even today's Cig the newer boats will be faster.

3-Well then let them come out and show it. I have not been speaking in terms of Cat builders. Skater, MTI to name a few sure have excelled in the development of Cat hulls in the last few years...all due to proper R&D through racing and kilos.
FeverMike is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 12:31 AM
  #54
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chesapeake, Va.
Posts: 1,231
Default Re: Fountain New Kilo Record by Miami Show!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100-Plus
I'm still a newby , but I have to ask: What technology, exactly, is trickling down from kilo runs? Or is it just a matter of engine builders making 1,500-hp (and then some) engines that will live long enough to survive a kilo.
In 1990 3000 hp got you the world record at 114 mph in a 47 Fountain race boat. Today 3000 hp gets you knocking on 200 mph. A 47 Fountain Lightning fully equiped pleasure boat with 2150 hp (2x1075) gets you 117 mph nowdays.

This stuff spins off to the production boats.
Fanatic is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 12:40 AM
  #55
Who Me?
Platinum Member
Thread Starter
 
FeverMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Tampa
My Boats: 2006 38TE Fountain
Posts: 6,656
Default Re: Fountain New Kilo Record by Miami Show!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanatic
In 1990 3000 hp got you the world record at 114 mph in a 47 Fountain race boat. Today 3000 hp gets you knocking on 200 mph. A 47 Fountain Lightning fully equiped pleasure boat with 2150 hp (2x1075) gets you 117 mph nowdays.

This stuff spins off to the production boats.
Fanatic, in many more words than just what you said this is what the heck I have been trying to explain to most here on OSO. Some...heck...most just don;t get it! I am NOT drinking the Fountain Kool Aid but right now Fountain is THE ONLY V Hull manufacture doing anything with productive R&D winning races and setting Kilo's. If Cigarette or OL or Formula or WHOEVER where doing the same I'd be talking about them too. Who's stepping up to the plate in 2007? I sure hope some else does!
Now, there are a lot of seriously nice boats out there. I'm not knocking them in terms of performance or build quality. Personally I'd own a 38-39 Nortech or Cigarette anyday...love those boats...awesome boats.
FeverMike is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 12:43 AM
  #56
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 714
Default Re: Fountain New Kilo Record by Miami Show!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rippem
All it's gonna do when physics innevitably catches up to man's challenges (which it has been for thousands of years) is that people are gonna die and yet another black eye will be placed on the interest of recreational performance boating which any of this has very little to do with.
People have been doing this for years, and they will be doing it forever. Saying that doing it is gonna cause people to die as a blanket statement is misleading at best. Dale Earnhardt died hitting the wall at Daytona at well below 100 mph. So does that mean that NASCAR should race at 50 mph? As far as the speed, Top Fuel and Funny Cars for years were insurance restricted to below 300 mph. When that changed, people thought it would be bad. But its not. These racers are running over 320 mph every weekend. More people died when they ran 200 than now.

Quote:
Unless the boat has capsules, a 180 MPH failure is simply not survivable.
Do unlimited hydros have them?


Quote:
as far as customer service, well...some just have a well known better record of satisfaction than others, deal with it.
If you are trying to compare Fountain to OL, you bet OL is gonna kiss your azz way more than Fountain. For what their boats cost, they should. Plus, they sell what about 25 boats a year, and Fountain sells 400 or so. To totally different companies. The only way that Fountain and OL get put in the same sentence, is that Fountain has, and has had the speed record, and OL has never had the speed record.
the duke is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 12:57 AM
  #57
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chesapeake, Va.
Posts: 1,231
Default Re: Fountain New Kilo Record by Miami Show!

Quote:
Originally Posted by T2x
Others believe that he is still pushing the envelope in spite of his age...... a sort of modern day Moses racing up Mount Sinai..... a beacon of light for those poor souls lost in the darkness of powerboat performance oblivion....a veritable inspiration for both the washed and the unwashed masses to follow..... The Pied Piper of Propeller driven speedboats.
No actually I think it's pretty impressive to see a 70 year old guy still out setting speed records.


Quote:
Originally Posted by T2x
The sad thing..... many of you actually swallow this hype, proving yet again that clever marketing trumps fact every time.
I'd say the multiple speed records pull it out of the hype and bullsh#t catagory into the fact and reality one.



Quote:
Originally Posted by T2x
This is a simple example of less and less lbs per HP going faster and faster regardless of hull design........until and unless stability is lost.
Then you can explain to me how a lighter boat in 1990 with 3000 hp went 114 mph and set the speed record while a 2006 13,400 lbs pleasure boat with 2150 hp runs 117 mph ?

Explain to me how my friends boat in 1990 (Alen Fuentes) which was a stripped down 42 Lightning race boat with staggered twin 1000 mercs ran ~100 mph wide open, yet a fully loaded heavier 42 lightning pleasure boat with staggered 1000's will run 120 plus today?

Last edited by Fanatic; 12-15-2006 at 12:59 AM.
Fanatic is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 01:32 AM
  #58
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Trade Score: (1)
 
dykstra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, IL
My Boats: 29' FOUNTAIN 525SC
Posts: 5,341
Default Re: Fountain New Kilo Record by Miami Show!

Stock power is VELOCITY.
dykstra is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 06:02 AM
  #59
Registered
 
Scott B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Slightly North of Cuba
My Boats: Donzi Criterion SS, X-18 , 16 OB, Z-235, F-14, Magnum Missile
Posts: 2,914
Default Re: Fountain New Kilo Record by Miami Show!

Who cares....
Scott B is offline  
Old 12-15-2006, 06:18 AM
  #60
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Frankfurt
My Boats: Hustler 388 Slingshot, 2007
Posts: 215
Default Re: Fountain New Kilo Record by Miami Show!

Sorry, but these speed records go into the wrong direction!

What average boater gets a better boat because of these records? No one!

I like the idea of comparing comparable modells of diefferent manufacturers with MILD power.

heiko


Quote:
Originally Posted by Semper Fi
I persoanlly would like to see different maufactures with equal size boats and power do a speed comparison-- maybe a 39 OL VS. 39 TG VS. 38 NT VS. 38 Hustler and all with same power 525, 600, 700 or 850 Mercs
frogger1403 is offline  
Closed Thread

Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
T2x
General Boating Discussion
134
12-17-2016 09:05 PM
SHARKEY-IMAGES
Sharkey-Images
68
09-04-2011 10:28 PM
fountain1fan
Fountain
2
05-25-2007 05:55 PM
Maximus
General Boating Discussion
18
08-06-2002 01:01 AM
Scooter
General Boating Discussion
7
02-03-2002 12:19 AM



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:23 PM.


Copyright 2011 OffShoreOnly. All rights reserved.