Real Problem - Need Real Answer.
 

No bull****ting here please.

SYMPTOM... Boat is really hard to start when cold.

SOLUTION... Attach wire to positive terminal
of battery, and other side to positive terminal on the coil, starts right up.

THEN...........

after boats runs.... and warms up...

SYMTOM... after stopping and attempting to restart, burns fuse after fuse.

SOLUTION... Jump start motor by turning key to ON position, and then crossing the two nubs on the cylinoid with a screwdriver. Starts right up every time.

other facts... when trying to start cold, the motor will actually try and start when turned to off position after just turning to start position and letting go.

attempted solutions:

1. replaced starter motor.
2. replaced key switch
3. check wiring top to bottom.
4. replaced cylanoid (master and slave)
5. check twin engine ground wire.

ARGGGGGGGGGGGH.

Please help.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :confused: :confused:

[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: NICKSLICK ]

Definately sounds like a short in the wiring. Either a hot wire is chaffed and grounding out or a ground is not making good contact. From the symptoms you've listed I would check all the hot wires first. BTW did you ever replace the engine wire harnesses that you were talking about doing a while back?????

1'st problem = probable open circuit in ignition bypass wire. Cured by hot wire from + bat to + ign coil. Also related to "other facts"
Burning fuses = High current draw/ short circuit in starting circuit. Jumping starter solenoid bypasses wiring from ignition switch and masks problem.
There is definitely a wiring problem.

Nick,
Does it crank slow cold or just not start.You said you put power to ignition coil? It sounds like you have high resistance in the wire feeding starter solinoid from ignition switch or a poor ground .Also check to make sure the block and starter is clean (Bare metal)where they mount.
Dave

[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: checkmate981 ]

Maybe i'm missing something, but when you turn the key on you should be reading something meaningful on a meter on the hot side of the coil. It likely is between 7 and 12 volts depending on the design of the ignition system. If it is less than 12 volts nominal and if your engine is of that era (and even now) there is likely a ballast resistor or resistance wire that COULD be one reason for hard starting. Hot wiring eliminates that resistance and give a hotter spark but changes the ignition timing IF you have the older semi or non-electronic type of ignition.

$.02

Ted

David has it right on the money. First problem is your ignition bypass wire. You may not have put it back on when you replaced the starter. This will cause the exact symptom that you are talking about.

Second problem is obviously a short. To click that celenoid(sp) on the back of the motor only takes a very small amount of current. You have a 15 amp fuse in there. Unfortunatly if you do not know how to track this stuff it cam make you go nuts!!! Well it can do that even if you do. Is it doing this now every time? I know that when I was out there it would work then not, unfortunatly we just ran out of time doing everything else. What you need is a good Multi Meter, and a lot of patience. STOP haphazardly replacing things on the boat, it is just costing you money that ya do not need to be spending. Get the multi meter first, Fluke makes the best, you do not need the best but you do need a good one. I would spend at leaste 75-100 bucks. You need a good one that the readings are stable. I would also recommend getting one that has a rubber cover in case you drop it so it will not break. Then give me a calll and I will give you one test at a time to do till you find the problem. I am still thinking your problem is in that messed up plug at the back of the motor, the one we had to put the hose clamp on to make work. I will be out there in a while to work on Rick32's stereo and some of the other guys boats so if you do not have it fixed them maybe I can swing over.

Jon

had the same problem on a truck one time and it turned out to be the positive cable to starter. looked like brand new and it ended up having a hairline crack under the terminal at the battery...didn't seem like that would be enough to do any harm but it created enough resistance that it caused hard starting and somtimes no starting. after a starter, solinoid, and ignition, it was a $2 terminal... :mad:

Jealousy...

Your boat is jealous of your 'busa. ;)

:eek: :eek: :mad: :mad:

At any point in time, the starter motor spins at full speed... no problem with power or cranking speed, it flies... So I guess that would eliminate the wire to the starter.

Audio, the engine with the messed up plug and harness is running fine... no problems... its the OTHER motor... the one with the good harness that isnt working.

-----------

I treat all my women with equal love...**

** Except my wife of course... who gets far more then any of my toys...

Nick--you are making it tough to diagnose-- If the wire harness on the engine is original to the boat, you should have a resistor wire (1.8-2.0 ohms) to the + side of the coil, and a bypass wire from the "R" terminal on the starter solenoid also to the + side of the coil. The resistor wire is energized when the key is in the "run" position. When you turn the key to crank the engine, the solenoid closes a contact inside the solenoid to put 12V to the coil. This is for easier cold starting. You need to VERIFY that you have 12 volts at the + side of the coil while cranking the engine, and approximately 9-10 volts with the key in the "run" position - hot or cold! You should also obtain a wiring diagram to verify that the wires at the round connector go to where they should on the engine, to match the boat wire harness.

Nick,
#1 As others pointed out, your starter bypass wire to the coil is missing. If you've got a points style ignition you have power to the coil running through a ballast resistor or resistor wire (usually tinned). It's only about 6 Volts at the coil. A bypass wire from the starter solenoid (yellow/red I think) supplies a full 12V when cranking. This should be connected to one of the small screw post on the starter solenoid to the + side of the coil. There should be a large red (+ battery), small yellow (ignition crank/start) and yellow/red? (bypass) on the starter.
If you've got a newer Thunderbolt IV with an older wire harness. You can skip the ballast resistor and just run 12V to the coil with the ignition on. Tap into the purple wire from the ignition.
#2 is a short. Which fuse is blowing? The one on the red wire side of the ignition I'm assuming or is it the main breaker? What else is on that fuse. Try turning EVERYTHING else off, then try cranking. Does it still blow? Is the fuse the right size?
Gary
Gary

Remember way back in school in science class where you had to plug a light bulb into a battery to learn the concept of how an electrical arc causes light in vacuum.

My battery was dead... and it still is.

I dont know **** about electrical. I dont have a meter, and I dont know how to read one. The frickin wire cage under my steering wheel looks like a rats nest to me... soooo many wires.

Im in over my head on this one... I dont know what the hell Im doing.

Ill try to figure it out this weekend.

Im printing this out now, and taking it with me, along with a flame thrower, sledge hammer, and other "electrical" tools...

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Nick,
I use the "Bigger Hammer" approach when it comes to computer problems. It seems you have the same attitude when it comes to firearms. Maybe that will work on the boat too. BTW, all you should need is a Voltmeter and wire cutter/stripper. Time to go to Radio Shack. Maybe you can get a bigger hammer there too.
Gary

Yo Nick, didn't the wifey say you could buy a new boat? :D

And then I woke up...

:eek: :eek: :mad: :mad: :D :D

Nobody responded to this. I am experiencing this anomally (sp) myself. The ignition has a key that powers up, then a rocker switch to start. After pressing the rocker switch, you can let go and the starter continues to crank, even if you turn off the key. When engine starts, the starter quits. I am thinking a sticking solenoid but seems it would stay stuck after the engine started. Any ideas?

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!! TRADE BOAT FOR A NEW ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D

Im not rich!

I have a 30ft SCARAB with TWIN 502's that does mid 70's.

I paid 25,000 for it.

It looks great, and runs good in every way except little bull**** like this.

Ive never had a severe or even moderate engine or drive failure.

Im doing ok.

:mad: :eek: :D

And by the way, the only way to have a boat with NO PROBLEMS of ANY KIND, is to

NOOOOOOOOT HAVE A BOOOOOOOOAT.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Nick, go to any marine parts supplier west marine boaters world ect... purchase a seloc or chiltons mercruser manual ..they have all basic wiring schematics with easy to understand line drawings, simple to follow . AS a matter of fact I have one that covers your year.. e-mail me and you can have it its an extra (US oso Scarab guys stick togeather) Dave..E=MAIL= [email protected]

Nick, I think you have a bad ign switch. Just a guess but I have seen the same symptoms on a boat with a bad ign switch.

trade for at least a 90's model :rolleyes: :D ;)

Well...ya know what I'm gonna say right??

:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

No but really......sounds like a resistance problem for sure......doesn't matter if starter spins like hell or what ever....when the resistance is met it will win.....

Buy a Bayliner.....no such problems......

I can only imagine the smart ass response to this.............

Gasm its like this...

Your boats better when it comes to starting, but AFTER the motor starts...

:eek: :eek: :mad: :D

ITS ALL SCAR.

[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: NICKSLICK ]