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Real Problem - Need Real Answer.

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Old 01-10-2002, 05:15 AM
  #1
NICKSLICK
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Post Real Problem - Need Real Answer.

No bull****ting here please.

SYMPTOM... Boat is really hard to start when cold.

SOLUTION... Attach wire to positive terminal
of battery, and other side to positive terminal on the coil, starts right up.

THEN...........

after boats runs.... and warms up...

SYMTOM... after stopping and attempting to restart, burns fuse after fuse.

SOLUTION... Jump start motor by turning key to ON position, and then crossing the two nubs on the cylinoid with a screwdriver. Starts right up every time.

other facts... when trying to start cold, the motor will actually try and start when turned to off position after just turning to start position and letting go.

attempted solutions:

1. replaced starter motor.
2. replaced key switch
3. check wiring top to bottom.
4. replaced cylanoid (master and slave)
5. check twin engine ground wire.

ARGGGGGGGGGGGH.

Please help.



[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: NICKSLICK ]
 
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Old 01-10-2002, 05:29 AM
  #2
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Definately sounds like a short in the wiring. Either a hot wire is chaffed and grounding out or a ground is not making good contact. From the symptoms you've listed I would check all the hot wires first. BTW did you ever replace the engine wire harnesses that you were talking about doing a while back?????
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Old 01-10-2002, 08:48 AM
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1'st problem = probable open circuit in ignition bypass wire. Cured by hot wire from + bat to + ign coil. Also related to "other facts"
Burning fuses = High current draw/ short circuit in starting circuit. Jumping starter solenoid bypasses wiring from ignition switch and masks problem.
There is definitely a wiring problem.
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Old 01-10-2002, 08:56 AM
  #4
checkmate981
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Nick,
Does it crank slow cold or just not start.You said you put power to ignition coil? It sounds like you have high resistance in the wire feeding starter solinoid from ignition switch or a poor ground .Also check to make sure the block and starter is clean (Bare metal)where they mount.
Dave

[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: checkmate981 ]
 
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Old 01-10-2002, 08:57 AM
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Maybe i'm missing something, but when you turn the key on you should be reading something meaningful on a meter on the hot side of the coil. It likely is between 7 and 12 volts depending on the design of the ignition system. If it is less than 12 volts nominal and if your engine is of that era (and even now) there is likely a ballast resistor or resistance wire that COULD be one reason for hard starting. Hot wiring eliminates that resistance and give a hotter spark but changes the ignition timing IF you have the older semi or non-electronic type of ignition.

$.02

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Old 01-10-2002, 08:59 AM
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David has it right on the money. First problem is your ignition bypass wire. You may not have put it back on when you replaced the starter. This will cause the exact symptom that you are talking about.

Second problem is obviously a short. To click that celenoid(sp) on the back of the motor only takes a very small amount of current. You have a 15 amp fuse in there. Unfortunatly if you do not know how to track this stuff it cam make you go nuts!!! Well it can do that even if you do. Is it doing this now every time? I know that when I was out there it would work then not, unfortunatly we just ran out of time doing everything else. What you need is a good Multi Meter, and a lot of patience. STOP haphazardly replacing things on the boat, it is just costing you money that ya do not need to be spending. Get the multi meter first, Fluke makes the best, you do not need the best but you do need a good one. I would spend at leaste 75-100 bucks. You need a good one that the readings are stable. I would also recommend getting one that has a rubber cover in case you drop it so it will not break. Then give me a calll and I will give you one test at a time to do till you find the problem. I am still thinking your problem is in that messed up plug at the back of the motor, the one we had to put the hose clamp on to make work. I will be out there in a while to work on Rick32's stereo and some of the other guys boats so if you do not have it fixed them maybe I can swing over.

Jon
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Old 01-10-2002, 09:48 AM
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had the same problem on a truck one time and it turned out to be the positive cable to starter. looked like brand new and it ended up having a hairline crack under the terminal at the battery...didn't seem like that would be enough to do any harm but it created enough resistance that it caused hard starting and somtimes no starting. after a starter, solinoid, and ignition, it was a $2 terminal...
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Old 01-10-2002, 10:21 AM
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Jealousy...

Your boat is jealous of your 'busa.
 
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Old 01-10-2002, 11:54 AM
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NICKSLICK
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At any point in time, the starter motor spins at full speed... no problem with power or cranking speed, it flies... So I guess that would eliminate the wire to the starter.

Audio, the engine with the messed up plug and harness is running fine... no problems... its the OTHER motor... the one with the good harness that isnt working.

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Old 01-10-2002, 12:32 PM
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Nick--you are making it tough to diagnose-- If the wire harness on the engine is original to the boat, you should have a resistor wire (1.8-2.0 ohms) to the + side of the coil, and a bypass wire from the "R" terminal on the starter solenoid also to the + side of the coil. The resistor wire is energized when the key is in the "run" position. When you turn the key to crank the engine, the solenoid closes a contact inside the solenoid to put 12V to the coil. This is for easier cold starting. You need to VERIFY that you have 12 volts at the + side of the coil while cranking the engine, and approximately 9-10 volts with the key in the "run" position - hot or cold! You should also obtain a wiring diagram to verify that the wires at the round connector go to where they should on the engine, to match the boat wire harness.
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