Reply to Poker Runs America $100,000 Poker Run and $50,000 Charitable Donation Thread
 

I tried to reply to the thread and am not sure how to. I'm not so good on the computer

As you can see I rarely post on OSO. I own Double R Performance / NotTechNorth.com. We were at the run. In fact, 8 of the boats entered for $80,000, plus $350 per crew member, plus corporate sponsorship were Double R clients. David was steering the Lawrason's boat that won the $100,000 and I was throttling.

I have talked with several clients who were called to attend the event and they were told the same thing: $100,000 to the winner plus $50,000 to his charity. I talked to David this morning. He informed me that the Lawrason's Team charity, chosen by David and John Lang, is Hustle For a Cure - The John D'Amico Fund. www.hustleforacure.org . Hustle For a Cure's purpose is supporting kids with various forms of blood cancers and finding a cure.

I know a few things about Poker Runs America:

1) They are a for-profit organization. They SHOULD make money. This is their business and livelihood.

2) They donate generously and regularly to charities.

3) Sometimes it takes them, or anyone hosting a poker run, a while to finish up their accounting and make a charitable donation.

Remember the fact that this run was only a few weeks ago. Bill told the entrants that there would be a $50,000 charitable donation. We feel very confident there will be a $50,000 donation to Hustle For a Cure.

The math is easy. The paid entries of $10,000 per boat plus the per crew member cost of a whopping $350 and corporate sponsorships, versus the costs, even if they were higher than any poker run ever held, should leave plenty of room for PRA profit and the donation that was promised to the entrants.

I think people are jumping the gun in condemning Bill and the PRA staff. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt they deserve and congratulate them for a job well done at the end of all this.

Sounds good.....I guess we'll see! :)

Bill and his crew run great events!

I don't think anyone was condeming anyone, just alot of questions asked.

Thank you for steping in and informing us. Things can get out of hand fast around here.

Agreed And this particular event was absolutely fabulous.

High Stakes and Kingston THE BEST !!!

WTF do you have to see....stop being an *******.

LOL....drink less coffee ! :p

Dont make us bring back your Gone with the Wind thread in uncensored! :drink:

Has anyone heard the final outcome? Did the 50k get donated yet?

Nevermind.

I'm usually a lurker but this topic hits close to home with me.

Shame on all of you that are allowing this to continue. I know most of you and I'm amazed that you arent demanding the 2000.00 portion of your entry fee back that was supposed to go to charity.

If this was your work this would be settled by now but because its your precious boating your'e letting this slide.

I understand from those that were there that there was no cheque presentation to a charity at the event. That clearly tells me that you were all duped from day 1.

There has been quite enough time for PRA to make this right. Obviously that isnt happening.

For those of you that think CHARITY is your middle name this doesnt look very good on you. Step up !!!!

You are all to be held accountable for making sure 50,000 gets to a charity.

This is like Georgian Bay all over again.

SHAME ON YOU ALL

YOWZAA! more to this than meets the eye :food-smiley-007::hitfan:

Canada Poker Run = Bobthebuilder

All I know is this: If there was a poker run worth attending, my good friend and all around super charitable guy Bob the Builder would have been there, and would certainly be in the know.
So, Hey Bob, what's the story ???

All the best,
Hans

Hey, Hans. I will see you guys before long now. Coming down the first week of October. And you are too kind ! LOL

I was invited to the run but had a conflict and could not attend.
I do know all the players tho, including 3 participants who were told about the $50,000.00 charitable donation that so far has not taken place. I can tell you they are credible , stand up guys who's word I would not doubt.
I also have many friends at PRA and called them the other day to make them aware of this thread. Hopefully before long we will see a posting from PRA letting everyone know their position on this.
Like many others, I want to see this go away and we all get back to boating !:D
Bob

Clearly there is something wrong and at this point I almost feel that even if there was 250k donated the damage has already been done! And a "sorry for the dealy" just insn't going to cut it. This is too bad that this has taken place.............

I talked to Bill this evening to find out if they'd made the donation. He informed me that they were short four boats on the run. He said that he decided on the evening of the event, that rather than shortchanging the winner of the $100,000, he would deal with the charity later. He was in a meeting and didn't have time to talk, but promised to call me tomorrow morning to discuss in more detail.

That doesn't promising.

Must have been the most expensive poker run in the world to stage I guess.


Someone said "do the math" so I did.

21 boats x $10,000.00 - $100,000.00 = $110,000.00 plus $350.00 per passenger X ? plus any corporate sponsor money = one heck of an expensive poker run to stage.

is this the first time they held a high stakes/high roller type of poker run. I can understand not enough boats not enough money, but since they are a fairly well established for profit company they should have thought of all the what if's. Perhaps plans along the lines like the charity gets $$$$ with this number of boats, or this $$ if it is only a smaller number would have been a good idea. If this was a green group of guys putting together a charity run you might cut them some slack, but a corporation that is in business to promote runs is differnt. IMHO I bet PRA will probably do the right thing (even if it costs them) and pay the charity, but I am sure it will be a learning experience.

Have been away. Missed all this BS.

I agree that PRA will do the right thing.

Firstly the fact that this was labelled High Stakes is of no consequence.
High stakes made the price tag go up by costing each boat 4k for the winner and 2k for the charity.That leaves 4k per boat to run the event.
This run (which was fantastic and well run as usual) was no different than any of the other times we've been to that venue.
Never has Hull cost more to enter than 2000.00 per boat (and each of those runs always had prizes totalling 20k which didnt happen this year.)

No one involved in this debate is expecting PRA to donate money that they don't have from this event.

And there is no learning experience here either.PRA has put together more poker runs that were well run and safe and full of entertainment than anyone else in North America.

And we all wish them the best as they continue to do so.

It is my opinion that the tax receipts should be issued to the people that donated the money , namely each of the entrants, not the grand prize winner as has been suggested. They donated 2k when they paid their entance fee as we all did.

I agree with the previous post that a reduced number of boats does effect the finances available to the winner and the charity.
The winner was not shorted any monies so therefore the HIGH STAKES PORTION of 4 boats x 6k each is a real shortfall.
Add back half the entry fee for the boat that paid and didnt show up and you have approx. 30k left for a fine donation to the charity of David and Johns choosing.
50 minus 24 plus 5
Anything more than that I can see being a burden on PRA and not fair to them which may cause this event not to be repeated which would be a shame.

I await the photo op.

Wow....that is a lot of money to put on an event for 21 boat crews no matter how you slice it.

21 boats x $4K for prize money = $84K (short $16K)
21 boats x $4K for "event/profit" = $84K (short $16K)
21 boats x $2K for charity = $42K (short $8K)


Total Entry = $210K
Prize Paid = $100K
===============
Sub-total = $110K

Event cost/profit = $84K (actual...but planned on $100K)
===============
Sub-total = $26K


That means there is only $26K available to direct to a charity? What a weird situation. I know that the PRA are great guys, but this is open for debate now on a privately owned public access forum now and people have questions.

My math must be terrible. Entry fees of $210,000, winner payout of $100,00, Charity $50,000, leaves $60,000 to run the event, and that's not counting the per person fees, and corporate sponserships.

Are you telling me it cost more than 60 grand to put on the event???

Even if it did, the PRA is a business. I own a business, and if I underestimate a project, I get to eat the difference.

My math must be even worse Joe.

$210,000.00 in entry fees less $100,000.00 in prize payout leaves $110,000.00 for gross profit.

Unless it cost over $5000.00 per boat to run the event, something just doesn't add up.

Even after removing the $50,000.00 for the charity, it would still leave over $2800.00 for per boat expenses and net profit.

[QUOTE=cloke;2271173]Have been away. Missed all this BS.

I agree that PRA will do the right thing.


No one involved in this debate is expecting PRA to donate money that they don't have from this event.

I don't agree with this, just like Cuda says if you are a business and make a promise and did not say in advance that it had to have X number of boats before the charity would receive money then they have to take it on the cheek and take the money out of their business, not just that particualar run. This is not uncommon in business, the company I work for makes mistakes on occassion that costs them money but they still come through for the customer.

And there is no learning experience here either.PRA has put together more poker runs that were well run and safe and full of entertainment than anyone else in North America

You are right they put on lots of well orgainzied events, that is why if they made a promise without adding a statement about the what ifs if the number of boats did not reach their quota is really not an excuse to not pay out. If they paid the full amount to the winner they should pay the full amount to the charity. I think no matter how long a company is in business along the way is there is always a learning experience, this one will be a hard lesson to swallow. Sounds odd that they made phone calls inviting people, was any of this promise of the prizes and the donation in writing, if not it sure as heck should have been.


It is my opinion that the tax receipts should be issued to the people that donated the money , namely each of the entrants, not the grand prize winner as has been suggested. They donated 2k when they paid their entance fee as we all did.

I agree with the previous post that a reduced number of boats does effect the finances available to the winner and the charity.

I think you might have missed the meaning of my post, Yes the reduced number of boats would have affected the finances, but poor planning on how the run was promoted and explained does not give them an out on paying the charity. If they did not have the foresight to give themself an out, they still have to do the right thing and pay up. Not every company makes a profit on every deal, but if they are reputable and want repeat business they have to come through and fulfill promises made to customers. If PRA does not want to damage their reputation I think they will do the right thing.


HIGH STAKES PORTION of 4 boats x 6k each is a real shortfall.
Add back half the entry fee for the boat that paid and didnt show up and you have approx. 30k left for a fine donation to the charity of David and Johns choosing.
50 minus 24 plus 5
Anything more than that I can see being a burden on PRA and not fair to them which may cause this event not to be repeated which would be a shame.

I await the photo op

I talked to both David from the winning Lawrason's Team and Bill Taylor today. Bill said the final accounting will be finished early next week and by Tuesday he will have the numbers for David's cancer charity.

Like I said earlier on, these things sometimes take time. Next week, we'll all congratulate ourselves and PRA for putting on such a great weekend and raising money for kids with cancer.

I put on the JACKSONVILLE FIRE AND POLICE POKER RUN. This run is a charity event. It takes about 3 months to settle all the $$ promised and to pay all your bills.

BILL TAYLOR and PRA are a CLASS ACT and will take care of business. Remember whatever the amount ,large or small is more than the charity received last year and they will be very greatful for the donation. BILL P.

Thats good news Raymond. Thanks for keepin us informed.

Maybe the winner of the 100 grand will cover the shortfall of the 50 thousand for the charity? That is if they run short.

YOU ARE MISSING THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS TOPIC

I am a little lost here.

Has the organizer said he would not pay the $50,000 to the charity? Based on what I've read in this thread, there seems to be some hedging, but no declarative "I'm not paying" statement. As someone said earlier, it does take a little time.

Regardless, the obligation to make good on the organizer's promise belongs solely to the organizer, even if the revenue wasn't what he hoped it would be. In no way should the winner be asked, much less expected, to make up the shortfall.

People might have entered based on the organizer's pledge of $50,000 to a charity. Anything less than honoring that pledge, to the penny, is unacceptable. Completely.

But again, I don't read anything here that says the organizer is backing out.

In answer to the one question in your post.........YES

Summer,

To whom did the organizer say it?

If he actually isn't going to honor his commitment, that's appalling. If you want to send a message, a really loud one, stop supporting his runs.

But only if he doesn't meet his obligation and you know it for a fact.

Bill your event is one I look forward to every year and I have attended the last 3. But you should consider it takes you 3 months to settle up but you don't do it for a living like PRA and their event was only 21 boats, your event is over 100.

I got this from several good sources, invitees and attendees. The run was more about calling the high rollers and frequent attendees. Nothing was put in writing just a description of the event and the promise to pay the charity over the phone. Hindsight seems to have changed their minds a bit, and if it was not for this thread, a renig on the promise might happen. At the moment the lastest word is some type of payment will be made to the charity, it's just the amount that is in question. To me I still think anything short of the promised $50,000 is going back on their word. PRA has been around to long to be this sloppy when dealing with their biggest customers.

You're right. Anything less than $50,000 to the charity is unacceptable. Here's why: The organizer promoted the event, in part at least, on that promise. I would guess that enticed a few people to enter.

If the organizer underestimated or miscalculated his take, that is not anyone's problem but his own.

However, until the charity receives whatever amount it is going to receive, the outcome is still unknown. Wait and see. If it's less than $50,000, raise the roof.

No matter what the $$ outcome was, the financial statement should read as follows.

Entry fees + Corporate sponsorships
- $100,000.00 payout
- $50,000.00 Charity Donation
- $ operating costs
= $ profit.


Not Entry fees + Corporate sponsorships$$
- $100,000.00 Payout
-$ Operating costs
-$ profit
= $ Charity Donation.

So, has there been any announcement as to how big of a cheque is going to David's charity of choice? I checked the PRA site and the "winners" pics are a repost of the 1000 islands run. Nothing on the "High Rollers" run under winners or any mention of the charity payout either.

An offer was made by PRA that was way below the promised amount, the winner and the other attendees said it was unexceptable, so PRA is going over their finances from the run again.

That doesn't sound too promising.


Maybe they could try this mathematical formula to arrive at an "offer" that the participants would find acceptable.


Entry fees + extra crew member fees + Corporate sponsorships
- $100,000.00 payout
- $50,000.00 Charity Donation
- $ operating costs
= $ profit.

PRA should realize that some times a for profit company does not make a profit on a job/event. Some times they take a loss. They are better off paying out and taking a loss on this one and they will make it back ten fold at the next event or 10 events. Stuff like this is what will make their next event a failure because people will not beleive that their money is going to go were it is promised.

Audiofn is right.
In business, it's always a risk. You don't always make as much as you expected or sometimes even cover your expenses, but you still have to deliver the product you promised.
Part of this product is the donation.
Not part of the donation.