puder

TTT

Ron P

Puder, I don't think anyone answered your question yet.

When boats use stonger material it allows them to be thiner and lighter. Since we don't see many hull failures this is not an issue. What is an issue is the deck to hull joint. This needs to hold together in the event of a stuff.

Aside from the obvious answer of wearing a roof, there are only things that I have seen a manufacture do to improve safety.

First it appears to me that Skater figuered out how to make a big cat lean into the turn.

Ever make a 90 mph turn in an old Chris Cat? They liked to lean to the outside at about 10 degrees. A bit un nerving to say the least.

Second, the back seat backrest in an Outerlimits. You literally slip into a bolster that hugs your mid section. Amazing security as speed even while sitting.

Otherwise what can be done. Well you could get a study to see if driving while sitting is safer than standing and if being seat belted into place is better than being thrown free in a crash.

During the 30 million dollar government study into boating safety it dawns on someone that it's nuts to let boats run at 190mph legally on a Sunday afternoon and that all boating over 40 mph should be banned in the name of boating safety.

People who run cats know that a roll over in a turn can happen at any time and without warning. It's all part of living on the edge for a few minutes.

So the answer is ---- Shut up Puder cause no one else is asking and you really don't want them to.

If your not living on the edge your taking up too much space.[

puder

don't work for anyone just got certified a few years back. I was thinking about joining my local firedeptment rescue team but just never got around to it. Not to mention don't really have the time. I did teh training just so i can be safer when i do recreational diving. Its safer for em cus i learn more about my own diving and can help other divers in case of emergency.

Ron. Goverment studies of course aren;t teh answer after all they got us the lovely 55mph speed limit. There have got to be more thing that can add some safety to fast boats. To take the attitude of "if you donlt like it shut up" is what can casue a stagnation of development and stall the sport. There have been many significant advances in et last few years. I am not saying that we need bumber boats painted flourescent yellow with everyone on board with water wings (except you, we know you like em ) but why not try to include some safety into them. Going a 150 mph in anything isn't safe. But on water it is really dangerous. What is teh harm in trying to make boats safer? Improvements now will ead to faster boats down eth line. Open wheel race cars are a great example. Tehy have gotten so fast that they need to limits the speed they run so handling and safety features can catch up with teh faster speeds. Wheneth do the cars will again be running faster still.

I think you suggestion about hull and deck joinery is a damn good one. FYI i respect yoru opninion as a racer, it takes a big set and soem serious skill to race a boat, especially down in jersey wher eth ocenas can get seriously snotty liek in point pleasant.

Ron P

So, what do you suggest?

FloridianSon

mine KS-22 switch-and to realy be on the safe side I should not carry but I do sometimes more than four people on deck so all will have at least one hand hold.and my vests all have leg straps,in case you are knocked out without them you could slip out the bottom of the vest.If someone dies and nothing is learned then then the life ment nothing.it is good to see people now asking themselfs am I ready for when I loose control,and I feel that as speeds climbes the chances of this will only becomes greater. be safe first have fun second .

Advantage_Rob

Puder, I think ALOT about this exact subject with boats, I am an engineer for high performance vehicles at GM and I deal all day with interior design, occupant saftey, and every other aspect of occupant concerns so I am pretty well versed in saftey, ergonomics, astetics, and just way too much **** that nobody thinks about or would even want to. Now design is my game all day, and I look at my true love which is boats and ther really is nothing done adressing the occupant saftey issue, and the truth is the boat manufacturers just dont have the budget to pay for someone like me to completely rethink how all these factors need to be adressed. For each vehicle we have entire teams of people that are experts on testing our interiors for occupant impact, and unless you are strapped in it's all out the window, it's about equal to testing an occupant in a rollover without a seatbelt on, or with the waves, think of Ivan Stuart running the baja 1000 in a convertable without a seatbelt or helmet on, that's what boating equals. I have my 32 advantage which has a ride smoother than any 32 I've ever rode in, but still I always take it easy for my passengers sake when it gets snotty, and you know nobody wears a vest when were out having fun. Unless you are willing to completely change the design and freedom associated with boating, it's really up to the driver to keep thier passengers safe. What you are suggesting would entice legislators to put saftey mandates on boats which would change boats to have saftey measures which would probably require all passengers to be belted in with 5 point harness's, which would require a much more secure seat mounting than 4 screws into a fiberglass sandwiched backing plate, it would probably outlaw open cockpits, because if a boat did flip it would do severe head trauma to a passenger strapped into the back seat. there's alot of issues that I could keep going and type for the next two hours and kill all of you with the boredom of occupant saftey, but let's let this subject go before some tree huggin hillary type senator reads this and thinks it's a good idea, because thats really all it takes is a suggestion from the right person to change the face of pleasure boating forever. There are so many things that could improve boats from my standpoint, as far as how they could be designed better, just from a convience/ergonomic/visual astetics standpoint, but I feel boating as a whole, the industry its self is very primitive, kind of like the first model a's in the 1920's, with wagon wheels, and primitive suspension, but now put a huge horsepower motor in it, but most importantly, do barrier testing on it and see how it does from a saftey standpoint. That's where the boating industry is at from my standpoint, but I love it still as we all do!! Boats are put together and tested a little, and thrown into production to generate profits. There's no government regulation on much of anything that I know of, anyone with the means could pull a company name build a boat, and sell it, it could be the biggest hunk o crap on the water that would snap in half in a 2 foot chop, but the point is nothing would stop that from happening, until it actually happened and a court stopped the manufacturer from selling it. I dont want these type of regualtions to happen to the boating industry, but thats what happened to the automobile, and thats one of the many reasons prices have gone up so much. Sorry about the lengthy babble, but unless you want a $200,000 20 foot rinker, lets just all try to be safe boaters, and hope these tragities are few and far between.

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: advantage_ROB ]

Advantage_Rob

p.s. puder, how was my spelling?

puder

rob i hear what you are saying.

I just think there has to be some kind of easy stuff that can help out. Mayeb soe kind of very small life jackets that aren;t so goofy looking that way more people would wear them when pleasure boating.

Ron. I actually do have one idea for laying up hulls differently Portion of the mold could be made together. Make the hull and deck as one piece. Not the entire deck but portion of it. The mold could be made in two pieces than they woudl bolt togehter while making the boat. When ready to be pulled the top would unbolt and the hull could be pulled. It would allow for more stability in teh hull that way the rest of teh deck could be affixed to teh molded in portions. I'm not a manufacturer but it seesm to me it woudl make thign a little stronger.

Ron P

Rob really spelled out what I wanted to say. It is up to the Captain of the vessel to choose a stong hull and look after the safety of its passengers. After all, most boating accidents don't involve other boats. They are caused by Captain error or running to fast for the conditions.

As for live jackets, check out the SOS suspenders. Not unsightly at all.

I think Rob said it nicer than me but, shut up Puder you really don't want to know this answer.

Advantage_Rob

FYI, I read puders post and replied my post, now I've read the rest of them, and some of the other things I wanted to say are mentioned. Seats, alot could be done to help here, the 40 advantage hardtop, I was going to mention it, but I didn't want to seem like advantage freak, because I have one, but was at the factory a few times during develpoment of the hull and hardtop, and spent days talking my very opinionated ideas with harry, and gary furgeson, and that was something I really liked about advantage, was the design, a designed hull, not a trial and error hull, and they were so receptive to my ideas, they really did want the best product on the market. Another good suggestion, handheld scuba canisters, inexpensive, but they need to be in your lifeline jacket that you wear, but design flaw, they dont fit in the pocket, new pocket, all relatively easy things to fix now that people decide to think it's important, but there's no regulation. Anyone with lots of bucks to pay for design, production, and marketing of boating saftey items feel like talking to me??, how about any manufacturer's? There's alot that could be done, and for obvious reasons I like to keep my ideas to myself, but the sad part for you and I is that boating is expensive enough already, and we the consumer are the ones that pay for it, period. The carlos and charlies accident, I havent seen a video, but a friend of mine explained the upside down crashing waves into the canopys at a hundred and who knows what. Now this could be calculated to see what kind of force that is, and redesigned to withstand that type of impact, but major cockpit redesign, breakaway occupant pod?? who knows, all possible, but at what cost? One life is definitely worth more than any ammount of money, I know that much, but I also know I hate how much boats cost already. As for the hull/deck glassing together, I really want a Riendell Armada for the design, stuff it all you want, (right Chris) now the Cigarette 36, glassed inside and out, a little trick I bet they got from armada or skater, I dont know who but someone did it first. Mark my words, soon to be the industry standard, still need a rub rail for docking in my opinion, but lets see who, and how soon everyone starts doing this. Innovate, Innovate, Innovate, that's how it gets safer, but these things take time like a model A to a new 2002, lots of years, lots of improvement, lots of differences and ideaology.

ps, and puder I wasn't at all saying shut up like RonP suggested I'm not like that at all, I just know alot about this stuff, and every day think boats, and it really ties into this subject, I'm glad you started this topic!

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: advantage_ROB ]