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looking to develop large race cats eventually

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Old 10-04-2007, 11:44 PM
  #31
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Lostin,

The majority of catamarans racing offshore next year will be Skater and MTI. The majority of offshore racing cats sold and built next year will be Skater and MTI. They will range in size from 36 to 46 feet. That makes them relatively "big," though substantially smaller than the Mystic 50.

So there is no "global shift" (my words not yours) to Mystic going on. But this fact takes nothing away from the achievements of Mystic. Nor does Skater's and MTI's production of pleasure boats take away from their considerable success as racing cats. That both build pleasure boats is irrelevant.

I have no argument with the quality of Mystic, or its (very) advanced technology. Your point of view, well-informed and reasonble, just seems a tad to bullish. But you did say the "big" racing cats are going with Mystic and if by that you meant just Unlimited and Extreme, the numbers are beginning to support that.

I can't afford a Mystic, either. Hell, I can't afford your Nor-Tech. But I can dream.
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Old 10-05-2007, 12:16 AM
  #32
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As you take more business classes you will learn about ROE, ROC, NPV, and IRR.

Manufacturing businesses are capital intensive, i.e. the initial tooling requires a large cash outflow.

Reggie Fountain was an insurance salesman, with a law degree- I'm guessing he was successful in that business and used his cashflow to start Fountain. Just Speculation on my part.

Irwin Jacobs, is a gazillionaire "corporate raider" his parents probably made 250K a year, yet they considered themselves middle class. Just speculation on my part.

Randy Scism (MTI) was probably paid lots of cash by the oil guys. Learned setup and design on their budget(damn near unlimited). Just speculation on my part.

Peter Hedlin (Skater)said his wife supported him for a while(not 100% guys), and I sense he is a frugile low consumption person (thats a compliment). And he got/gets his hands dirty (saving money and understanding the process). I suspect he's the kinda guy who would sleep in his factory if need be (just like the Honda guy). And Randy Scism(MTI) got alot of his knowledge and design info from Peter. Just speculation on my part.

The Nor Tech guys kinda appeared out out nowwhere, and where the hell they got the money to move to america and start a boat company- beats me.

Don Aronow was wealthy from the real estate business, liked racing boats, and realized if he formed a company he could expense his racing efforts as R&D.

The Mystic Powerboats guy (Dave Callen I thinks) sold one of his companys(internet or some thing) for over $400 million. Now he has money for tooling..... and lots of pretty women. Just speculation on my part.

Doug Wright is essentially a tooling company (for others at first) and could produce his own tooling at a low cost. But he need to buy those big cnc axis machines with some money. Just speculation on my part.

The guy who wrote the doom game software made $25 million and lost a couple of it trying to be a boat manufacturer. I thinks he spent a lot cash on cnc everything and then realized...wow I gots to sell 50 boats this year to make money...and I only sold 4. Just speculation on my part.

Orignal Poster...You appear talented in the graphic arts/computer rendering arena. I work for one of the Big 3(cars)(whatever) and the design studios are full of guys like you that are well paid. Pinafirinia (sp) styles cars and boats. From your drawings/renderings, I think you could do that kind of work. Maybe you could create a highly stylized skater, etc. If you look at the Nor Tech's theres a lot of styling cues from italion autos.

Your renderings look good, get paid to do that work, maybe with a big boat manufacturer.

But what the hell do I know? I design grocery getters.
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Old 10-05-2007, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by vtec View Post
.... start Fountain. Just Speculation on my part.
Irwin Jacobs, is a gazillionaire... Just speculation on my part.
Randy Scism (MTI) was probably paid lots of cash .....Just speculation on my part.
Peter Hedlin (Skater)said his wife supported him .... Just speculation on my part.
The Mystic Powerboats guy (Dave Callen I thinks) sold one of his companys...Just speculation on my part.
Doug Wright is essentially a tooling company ... Just speculation on my part.
The guy who wrote the doom game software made $25 million .... Just speculation on my part.
But what the hell do I know? I design grocery getters.
You speculate a lot, huh?
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Old 10-05-2007, 10:14 AM
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VTEC's post simplified the entire boat manufacturing business. All you need is lots of money and low expectation of getting it back.

Out of all of them, only Hledin bootstrapped his company. It also took many planets aligning for that to happen. Had he tried to break in today, there would be little chance of his success. The Skater 24 put him on the map- he didn't start with the 46.
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Old 10-05-2007, 10:53 AM
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The Mystic Powerboats guy (Dave Callen I thinks) sold one of his companys(internet or some thing) for over $400 million. Now he has money for tooling..... and lots of pretty women. Just speculation on my part.
The Mystc Powers boats guy is John Cosker. Dave Callan was the Callan Marine guy and was one of their customers. Mystic has a unique business model which has allowed it to steadily grow and will continue to.
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Old 10-05-2007, 11:00 AM
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Chris Sunkin makes an excellent point: Peter Hledin would have a hard time pulling it off today, and he didn't start with a big cat. Likely, he would be fatally undercapitalized.

As Lostinboston has pointed out, Mystic has made significant inroads in the big racing cat market. It's worth noting that Mystic is hardly an overnight success. John Cosker has been at it for quite awhile.

Vtec points out what's been stated already: It takes big bucks to start a boat company and it's a high-risk business.

I'm not sure that it matters how anyone made his money (Tell Dave Callan he didn't work hard for it; for that matter, Irwin Jacobs is a notorious workaholic.) The salient point is that it takes tons and tons of capital to get boat companies started, the boat business is risky. That applies even if the money comes from a rich kid's trust fund.
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Old 10-06-2007, 01:37 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by vtec View Post
As you take more business classes you will learn about ROE, ROC, NPV, and IRR.

Manufacturing businesses are capital intensive, i.e. the initial tooling requires a large cash outflow.

Reggie Fountain was an insurance salesman, with a law degree- I'm guessing he was successful in that business and used his cashflow to start Fountain. Just Speculation on my part.

Irwin Jacobs, is a gazillionaire "corporate raider" his parents probably made 250K a year, yet they considered themselves middle class. Just speculation on my part.

Randy Scism (MTI) was probably paid lots of cash by the oil guys. Learned setup and design on their budget(damn near unlimited). Just speculation on my part.

Peter Hedlin (Skater)said his wife supported him for a while(not 100% guys), and I sense he is a frugile low consumption person (thats a compliment). And he got/gets his hands dirty (saving money and understanding the process). I suspect he's the kinda guy who would sleep in his factory if need be (just like the Honda guy). And Randy Scism(MTI) got alot of his knowledge and design info from Peter. Just speculation on my part.

The Nor Tech guys kinda appeared out out nowwhere, and where the hell they got the money to move to america and start a boat company- beats me.

Don Aronow was wealthy from the real estate business, liked racing boats, and realized if he formed a company he could expense his racing efforts as R&D.

The Mystic Powerboats guy (Dave Callen I thinks) sold one of his companys(internet or some thing) for over $400 million. Now he has money for tooling..... and lots of pretty women. Just speculation on my part.

Doug Wright is essentially a tooling company (for others at first) and could produce his own tooling at a low cost. But he need to buy those big cnc axis machines with some money. Just speculation on my part.

The guy who wrote the doom game software made $25 million and lost a couple of it trying to be a boat manufacturer. I thinks he spent a lot cash on cnc everything and then realized...wow I gots to sell 50 boats this year to make money...and I only sold 4. Just speculation on my part.

Orignal Poster...You appear talented in the graphic arts/computer rendering arena. I work for one of the Big 3(cars)(whatever) and the design studios are full of guys like you that are well paid. Pinafirinia (sp) styles cars and boats. From your drawings/renderings, I think you could do that kind of work. Maybe you could create a highly stylized skater, etc. If you look at the Nor Tech's theres a lot of styling cues from italion autos.

Your renderings look good, get paid to do that work, maybe with a big boat manufacturer.

But what the hell do I know? I design grocery getters.
Thanks alot for your overview of the boat industry it really put things into perspective for me. Im assuming you work for GM? On a side note will that camaro be out before 09?

I went to CCS in detroit for two years and then money played a big role in starting over. I was a product design student , but originally went there with the intent of working for one of the big three automotive companies. I have a huge passion for the offshore boats and muscle cars.

Now that im working towards my business degree and having two years of design under my belt this Cat company is basicly a dream of mine. One of my best buddies goes to Coventry and has a few more pennies in his pockets so he's sticking it out to get his BFA in ID for transportation.

I have basicly a few inventions that are very practical and if they work out they'll be very profitable having talked with a patent lawyer already and this is how Im hoping to get the money to start my own boat company one day. After I work for a Boat or car company for a while on the business end Id like to move on to be my own boss and starting the company.
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Old 10-06-2007, 10:09 AM
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they'll be very profitable having talked with a patent lawyer already and this is how Im hoping to get the money to start my own boat company one day. .
A couple weeks ago we talked about patents. Run a search- enjoyable reading.
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