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Old 01-06-2008, 09:39 AM
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Didn't even know they were getting into the CC market and I am looking. I don't like the way they look but that is what they need to do if they can't be one of the elite builders in the go fast market.
Steve has always made a center console version of the 22 but it was special order.

IMHO The biggest problem he has with the 22 CC is the fit and finish. It's a 20 year old drop in deck mold that isn't finished anywhere near the quality and style of what you can get on something as mundane as a Wellcraft. You have to be seriously in love with "go fast" boats and Velocity's specifically to do a 22CC. There's too much out there for the same or less money that will support your fishing habit better, it just won't be as fast with the same power.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:47 AM
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Steve has always made a center console version of the 22 but it was special order.

IMHO The biggest problem he has with the 22 CC is the fit and finish. It's a 20 year old drop in deck mold that isn't finished anywhere near the quality and style of what you can get on something as mundane as a Wellcraft. You have to be seriously in love with "go fast" boats and Velocity's specifically to do a 22CC. There's too much out there for the same or less money that will support your fishing habit better, it just won't be as fast with the same power.
correct..our neigbor has one..see it every other weekend. It is fast, but thats about it.
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:20 AM
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Now imagine what Skip thinks Cigarette is worth! 25MM/ 50MM or more?
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:25 AM
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Braver sells more $$ in t-shirts than Stepp does in boats.
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:39 AM
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Maybe Dean can chime in being an accountant. I know some businesses are primarily goodwill (no bankable assets) but 5 million ask with 3 million in goodwill seems to be a stretch. If Cigarette sells $XXX in merchandise, then sells 50 boats a year then even they have a cash value. Good will can't stretch that far away from actual value since the buyer has to pay that difference in cash or the owner needs to finance the difference. No bank would loan 25 or 50 million to buy Cigarette when they make 50 boats a year. Revenue is based on production whether it is making t shirts or boats. Low production = low revenue.

The other thing I thought of was if you had the capital invested you need to look at the opportunity cost of changing gears. If your 5mm was earning 300K at 6% in secure munibonds then you decided to buy a boat business that on paper would make XYZ dollars how much better is that than doing nothing and living on your existing bond income and in worse case what about if the boat business eats you alive and you lose the capital and the business!

For you math guys, a 4MM note at 7% for 15 years would add $36,000 a month to your existing overhead AFTER you stroked a 1MM downpayment. That is a lot of extra overhead he is not paying now. Once that is figured into the existing business model (his with low overhead) you can see that a small fortune would be made in the boat business after you started with a big fortune!
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:44 AM
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Steve has always made a center console version of the 22 but it was special order.

IMHO The biggest problem he has with the 22 CC is the fit and finish. It's a 20 year old drop in deck mold that isn't finished anywhere near the quality and style of what you can get on something as mundane as a Wellcraft. You have to be seriously in love with "go fast" boats and Velocity's specifically to do a 22CC. There's too much out there for the same or less money that will support your fishing habit better, it just won't be as fast with the same power.
I can't stand getting beat to death anymore after all the racing crashes so I don't look at any smaller than 35 feet so that is why I never saw them. I have a 16 foot Carolina skiff and some jet skis and it's very rare if I can't see my house when I am on them.
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:55 AM
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Maybe Dean can chime in being an accountant. I know some businesses are primarily goodwill (no bankable assets) but 5 million ask with 3 million in goodwill seems to be a stretch. If Cigarette sells $XXX in merchandise, then sells 50 boats a year then even they have a cash value. Good will can't stretch that far away from actual value since the buyer has to pay that difference in cash or the owner needs to finance the difference. No bank would loan 25 or 50 million to buy Cigarette when they make 50 boats a year. Revenue is based on production whether it is making t shirts or boats. Low production = low revenue.

The other thing I thought of was if you had the capital invested you need to look at the opportunity cost of changing gears. If your 5mm was earning 300K at 6% in secure munibonds then you decided to buy a boat business that on paper would make XYZ dollars how much better is that than doing nothing and living on your existing bond income and in worse case what about if the boat business eats you alive and you lose the capital and the business!

For you math guys, a 4MM note at 7% for 15 years would add $36,000 a month to your existing overhead AFTER you stroked a 1MM downpayment. That is a lot of extra overhead he is not paying now. Once that is figured into the existing business model (his with low overhead) you can see that a small fortune would be made in the boat business after you started with a big fortune!
From what I have been told in the last month of looking for a biz. the banks are gonna want a lot more than 1 mil on a 5 mil buy. Maybe 1 mil cash and 2-3 mill in other assets. I looked at a biz the other day for 650K they want 100k cash and me to put my house up too, my house is worth about 1.5 and I owe 600k. My wife and I have great credit also.
I still feel in todays economy it's better to buy an already established biz than trying to start one(in most fields). but I'll keep looking for the right one.
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Old 01-06-2008, 11:35 AM
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I'm an accountant and I've been seeing a lot of this lately. There are A LOT of baby boomers starting to get out. They want quality of living and no longer want the stress of it all. It looks like the owner wants to stay on board. Not sure if it has anything to do with the actual boats being made. It looks like the owner just wants to retire.
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Old 01-06-2008, 12:40 PM
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some guys like myself are not so concerned about the last 1 or 2 MPH and just like the styling of those hulls and decks. Look how many guys around here love to rebuild an old classic.......they know they won't be the fastest or the best but still love to have something different.

Yep, I'm one of "those" guys.
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Old 01-06-2008, 01:43 PM
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But in 20 years are you still going to be restoring 1988 Cigarettes or Sonic's or are you going to be looking for classic Outerlimits and Nortech's to do, when the prices are more for the everyday man ?
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