V Hull Lengths - How Seaworthy
 

Happy New Year!

I'm looking to get a Formula 272. I have always had runabout boats no bigger that 18ft. I've been searching to find out how effective offshere hulls are in larger waves. I may look for a 292 or even a 311 if the 272 wouldn't be quite as good in the rougher seas. Is there any info online or any books that go into any detail about offshore hulls? Any personal experiences would be great. I'm looking for a boat that is worthy and safe to cruise down to California from the Georgia Straight in Washington area.

Any boat recomendations?

Thanks

Art

I have personal experience with the 272, it is a great riding boat for its size. It is a full 27 footer, and would measure out a solid 30 feet by todays standards (include the platform). It's heavy, has tall sides (big freeboard) and in general a safe boat. I wouldn't hesitate taking one from Florida to the Bahamas on a decent weather day.

I will own one someday, I honestly think they are the best deal in the boating market.

I owned a 1989 Formula F-311 with T454mags, summer 1990 through summer 1994. It was a good solid running boat, ran 64mph, light on fuel, and handled the Atlantic Ocean off NJ very well. It had a conventional straight V bottom, trim tabs, but no hydraulic steering; however, at 60 mph, that was adequate.

I don't know that I'd want to try coastal navigation in the Pacific Northwest without an oceangoing vessel. it's not like the East Coast where you can duck in & out of the ICW.

Under 30' is a lake boat on all but the smoother days. Not that you can't run them in bigger stuff, it's just going to border somewhere between uncomfortable and unsafe, depending what the water is like. Out in the ocean, I personally wouldn't be comfortable in something less that around a 38'. I also wouldn't venture out on a cruise like this alone. Buy the Chapman book. It might save your life.

As far as which boat- the Formula is a good choice. They're built very robustly and with quality materials. They're not going to be the fastest but they'll certainly be reliable.

Chris Sunkin,

Thanks for the book recomendation, I think I'll pick it up today.

Would a 30ft be somewhat comfortable in 6-7ft seas? If not, what length would be?

Thanks

Art

Lookin' forward to that book.

Your going to need a 42 plus to be somewhat comfortable in water like that and be able to run. Some smaller boats handle thats size decent but you have to go slow.

You'll get beat up pretty bad in 6-7 footers in a 30 foot boat. I wouldn't even try it.

6-7 is big, assuming 'real' 6-7 and not what people think are 6-7 (I swear 99/100 boaters over-state wave size by 2 times).

If you want to take extended trips in that water I have to suggest a bigger all around boat. Like a sportfish, and at least mid 40 foot range.

I owned a 272 for 3 years and loved every part of it. Mine had small blocks in it. Full of fuel on good day with my wife and i 58. The 272 with SBC DRY was 5700 pounds. My rig was comfortable in 2-4's all day! Best cruise was 3300@40 MPH GPS with 23 Mirage props

I thought I was the only one who noticed that:rolleyes::drink:

If anyone has been in true 6-7' seas they know it is no joke! A 30' boat ain't going to cut it. You say somewhat comfortable in 6-7ft seas.....well I say very few will do it. Might want to look into a 46' rough rider or a 47 Apache. Like Chris said 38' or larger is the min. for what you want.

A 38 in REAL 6's at 50 mph isn't a sit-down ride. It's a hands-on, 100% attention deal. It's exhilarating but maybe not too fun for ladies & little kids. More hard-tail Harley than Gold Wing. Alot more.

Art H , you've mentioned cruising Georgia Straight Washington [ don't know where that is ] state , all the way to California by the Oregon coast . I wouldn't even consider doing that in my friend's triple engined 47' offshore boat ! The Oregon coast is one of the worst to cruise down to Cali .

Friendly reminder from the Columbia Delta
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/MOJO_lg.jpg

Most salty guys going out 100 miles from shore to find calmer water when they have to make that trip . Saw a few 60'+ yachts at the local yards bent out of shape getting water over the bridge coming up by the Oregon coast . Here in the Georgia Strait [ Vancouver BC area ] protected by Vancouver Island , we have conditions you wouldn't want to be out when the north westerly wind start blowing .

Here's a picture of my friend's 33 Donzi that gets water over the windshield regularily coming across the Strait . This was a nice calm day

http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/IMG_0727_edited.JPG

Got soaked so many times in the Donzi that he built this 33 foot boat entirely to cope with the unpredictable weather of the North West .

http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/IMG_0923%20copy.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/IMG_0924%20copy.jpg

There's an older 1989 Formula 402 for sale in the NWoffshore.com classifieds that's the minimum size spanning crest to crest to be comfotable with in 6 footers . Price is right below 30 K .
Ps; like Chris Sunkin mentioned read Chapman's Piloting over and over if you really want to venture far offshore .Radar is a must , since fog is another problem , offshore racers from the 70's 80's found that out pretty fast !

I have a 272 Formula, Great boat, great for "rough" waters. That being said, I been out n 6'-8' swells in a 16' speed boat. Just rode right over them and with them. NO WHITE CAPS. In Hawaii. Rolling waves. Been out on Lake Michigan in 4'+ meat grinder/washing machine white caps, waves from every direction. White knuckles all the way and I was in a 42 Luhrs.
Got stuck in a storm in WPB, East coast of FL in a 26'. Glad to be alive, I might ad.
GET THE BIGGEST F;ING OCEAN LINER YOU CAN GET !! for the boating you are talkng about.

If you have to ask the question you probably should not even consider putting yourself and others in that situation. We are in this for FUN!!! Not to get ourselves killed!!!

art, i love formulas more than the next guy (had 4 or 5); but going down the wa/or coast ain't no joy ride. its not that there aren't days where an 18' would do, but you NEED serious seakeeping abilities to do this safely. good luck - jeff

The NW does have some serious weather. And...it comes up fast. I was on a 185ft Coastal Patrol once up north, when we started taking blue water over the bridge. Not a fun ride. A lot of good info in this thread. Like was already said, a rader and a GPS plotting system is a must, due to the fog. If I were up north, I'd be looking at a 40ft plus boat due to the much better ride.



Darrell.

Thanks for all the info.

Spectras, I am from Vancouver, but mentioned Washington to also refer to Juan de Fuca Straight. I have property on Thetis Island and want to start commmuting regularly. The real purpose of this post was to find out what these offshore hulls can do in moderate yet still safe seas. I did find it quite difficult finding info on rough sea performance. Most boat tests may mention the sea-state, but it is ussually quite tame.

If I go with an older boat, I think the Formulas are nice looking and have a good record for quality. If I go newer, then the door is open. To start I think the 30ft range is a good beginner size. Fuel consum not too bad either.

Spectras, I like the boat your friend built. Did he do the whole thing or just redo the superstructure of an exhisting hull? Either way it's a fine example of a comfortable boat. any other info on the boat would be great.

Thanks

Art

The only fatalities in USCG 40' motor rescue boat history came in your neck of the woods. It does not sound like a place for beginners

I have also noticed that 99 out of 100 OSO members invent ratios.

Don't they sell Grand Banks or other trawlers up there?

This would be nice.

45 foot Mainship.

That's true in 8 out of 10 cases.

"Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that." Homer Simpson

272 Formula
 

With twin SBC these boats are like a Timex --take a lickin and keep on tickin--
My buddy has one and usually when there is not another boat on the water becauase of big waves he is still heading out. It would have to be pretty crazy out there for him not to go, the boat takes it just fine as long as you slow down and take the wave the right way. This is on Lake Erie where it can get pretty big.

That being said, I don't know if 50 miles off shore in 6-8's is wise??:party-smiley-004:

I would think big and heavy and 'dependable would be what I wopuld look for in that situation.

Dave

I hate to get on topic, but don't 272s usually have 454s?

Typically. Never have I seen one with small blocks. They're hefty boats- I wouldn't want to try to get one full of fuel, gear and passengers up on plane on a breezy day with 350's.

You got me there:cool-smiley-011:

But, in all seriousness, a sloppy 6-8 foot day means you'll see nothing but a wall of water around you when you are in the swell. (this assumes a Formula or similar boat of course)

Many were made with SBC, they were standard power. They don't run as bad as it seems like they might... the weak link is the Alphas behind such a heavy boat.

The Formula that is really hard to find is the 242 SR1. The boat that killed it off was the SB powered 272... It wasn't much more money to buy the 272 over the twin SB 242, so most people opted for the 242 LS to save money, or the 272 SR1 if they wanted more boat.

Thats what i'd want to be driving in 6-7s. Throw in a stabilizer while you're at it.

I also think a 70+ magnum will be OK too at speed.

Cary

They do just fine:D

First off, we're talking the '86-91 vintage 272 SR-1 right? I don't know the production mix but I've seen more with small blocks, and a few with big blocks. IMHO the SBC 272s are still the best all around bang for the buck. A few were made with 320hp EFIs and Alpha SS drives; definitely a mid-60s+ mph boat I think and that's with a molded in hook. For the boating I do, I wish I had stuck with buying a 272 instead of the 311.

Art H, I lived in Vancouver and my pops had property on Gossip Island. We though about commuting across the Straight in our own boat, but enough rough ferry rides made us decide not to. When a 150 foot ferry decides it is too rough to run, a 30' Formula is not going to cut it. <gg>

That said, if you pick your day, the odd trip over would be fine. I think the B.C. fuel costs are going to rock your world on any regular long distance boat commuting trips. Buying a float plane would probably be cheaper, but not as cheap as taking the ferry.

Go to BoaterEd.com and ask questions on the Inside passage thread. Good luck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Art_H (Post 2398072)

Thanks for all the info.

Spectras, I am from Vancouver, but mentioned Washington to also refer to Juan de Fuca Straight. I have property on Thetis Island and want to start commmuting regularly. The real purpose of this post was to find out what these offshore hulls can do in moderate yet still safe seas. I did find it quite difficult finding info on rough sea performance. Most boat tests may mention the sea-state, but it is ussually quite tame.

If I go with an older boat, I think the Formulas are nice looking and have a good record for quality. If I go newer, then the door is open. To start I think the 30ft range is a good beginner size. Fuel consum not too bad either.

Spectras, I like the boat your friend built. Did he do the whole thing or just redo the superstructure of an exhisting hull? Either way it's a fine example of a comfortable boat. any other info on the boat would be great.

Thanks

Art

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You'll be fine with a Formula of 24' and over most of the time sticking around here . My friend commutes every weekend to his Maple Bay house during the summer months , hence he built his canopy enclosure type boat while he worked at Sovereign Yacths . It's a one of only , that we did the rigging and installed a single ZZ572 engine in it for economy . Boat does suprisingly well at 65 mph on GPS with single power .
In this picture you see the enclosure for a liferaft , that can be used as a hot tub as well , hehe .
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/lifeboat%20holding

Have a heater also that maintains 70 F inside the cabin in the winter .

The engine
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/c...20interior.jpg

The interior
http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/c...20interior%205

I use my boat [ 25'7" with twin 6.2's ] crossing to Vancouver Island all the time . We could meet up one day and shoot the breeze about boats .
Here's a typical light choppy day at Porlier Pass . The boat behind me is a 34 foot cruiser.

http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/Porlier%20Pass

My boat and Craig's [ before he painted the hull blue ] at his dock in Maple Bay

http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/M...%20Maple%20Bay

CBR,

Thetis requires 2 Ferries at a great expense. Not to mention the extended waiting times. Not a viable solution, really.

I have crossed on some really bad days, with an 18ft. I used to go over with my Dad as a youngster in a 15ft Glen-L with a 454 and a jet. Nothin' says ouch more than rough seas and a flat bottomed hull.

My travel distance is about 35 miles into False Creek Vancouver. The two ferries would cost about $130 total. A 30ft hull cruising @ 35-40 mph would consume about 15US GPH. So between $50-60 depending on if you use marked fuel. So really, it could end up being less expensive. And if it's bad enough that the ferries close, then you're not gettin' over anyway...

Thanks for the BotaerEd link,

Art

This is outside of English Bay going into Howe Sound by Bowen Island . 35' Nordic getting through the slop .

http://www3.telus.net/spectrasonly/D...5%20NORDIC.jpg



The only boat that maintained high rate of speed without beating its passengers during this
poker run was a 42' Outerlimit .

Just for measure , I burn 10 gal/hr per engine at 3000 rpm cruising 40 mph .
I usually make it to Maple Bay from the Richmond ramp at cruising speeds in 45 minutes . It's more enjoyable than going by ferry both ways , not to mention the long sailing waits .
PS; marked fuel is 89 octane on the water .My 6.2's require 87 octane , so it's cheaper to fill up at the gas stations on land for me .

Handfulz28,

You mention the infamous hooked hull of the Formula boats. Probably the biggest strike against them. I have read the posts that mentioned the hooks in the hulls, though they are not clear as to what years and hull lengths are plagued. Do you know this info, or know where I can find out, or at least when Formula stopped that practice?

I think I'm leaning more to the 292 as it has the enclosed head. Also having more room for mor comfort cruising the Gulf Islands with overnights. Keeps the wife happy, and gets me a bigger boat. :D

Art

The hook he talks about is not a true hook. It is more like a built in trim tab on the outside edges of the hull only. It helps the boat get on plane quicker and maintain plane at slower speeds, but once you get moving the sides come out of the water and don't affect the boat like a hook that spans the transom.

If you bump to a 292 you'll find that you don't have to worry about the options that were selected from the get go. I am pretty sure the 292 came stock with zero effort controls, etc because I've never seen one without them. So, any 292 will be Like a 272 with all the options checked off.

VetteLT93,

That sounds a little better. That was the best description of the 'hook' I've heard yet. Some guys do sand and glass it out don't they? With good results?

The 292 with the options sounds great to me, and it's only 350lbs more than the 272 with 2 more feet at that. My plan was to take out the big blocks and put in an LS3 setup with custom stainless manifolds. Hoping that would drop the wait a little, and up the fuel efficiency.

Art