A/C and Honda Gen installed-38'Scarab
 

Well I installed the 10k A/C unit over the weekend. Went in pretty well, some modifications required to fit. Fired it up on the shorepower for a couple of seconds (cannot get water up to pump out of the water). I finished mounting the generator yesterday and it fired the A/C also. We'll see how it does on the water. Here is some pics of the gen,switch,and vapor sensor set up to automatically start blower if vapors are present in engine compartment (the switch next to the vapor unit on the dash turns on the aux. blower that is set up to evacuate the heat from the generator).One of the two co detectors for the cabin. Also the switch for shore/gen I set up where the cable/phone cords used to be. Baby due TOMORROW so it will probably be a while before I can test this stuff out. I'm gonna miss taking it out for the Desert Storm Poker run, dammit !!!!!!!!

more pics

And finally the close ups of the generator (tight fit)

Very nice install !!! What are the blue lines attached to the gen ? Exhaust I assume ? Where did you route the exhaust and did you drill a thru hole in the side of the boat ? I'd also like to see pics of the AC install and plumbing as I was thinking of doing this myself. Well done and thx for the pics.

That is the deadliest setup I have ever seen. I would never let anyone use a rig like that. DON'T DO IT!

Yea,
Like the gen/ac idea.
Just did not see the exhaust side of it yet.
Mine is a factory outlet.
Looks like gassing it up might be a pain though.
To bad you could not have had it built in that way.

Good luck,
And Congrats on the BABY!!!!!!


Johnny

No offense Brownie, but how is it "the deadliest setup" you have ever seen. I have taken ALOT of precautions to insure this setups safety. 1) Vented exhaust (120-180 F) with 350F silicone hose to outside of hull (and will run generator with hatch open about 4-6") 2) Running a blower specifically for the generator (heat and any fumes) in addition to stock engine room blower 3) Have generator (46 lb unit) tied down with two 500 lb racheting straps. and 8-2" stainless bolts 4) Have a fuel vapor sensor in engine compartment with automatic blower control and alarm 5) I have two co detectors inside cabin.
I have seen how things are run the "right" way and can see that improvements could be made. Boating can be a dangerous hobby, but I think I have covered all the bases here.It is easy to see something and think "oh god, thats an accident waiting to happen" and seen idiots do stupid things. But I don't think that is the case here and member "Excursion" did the same thing on his 37'Active Thunder and was trouble free for a few years.Please give me your insight, because I have thought this out for the last 10 months.Mike

BTW here is the exhaust outlet

Johnny,I have a little 1 1/4 gal fuel tank I am going to keep to fill it up. I doesn't look like it will be too difficult,Mike

I think Brownie is referring to the type of generator. It appears that it's the kind that is made for "external" use because of the case. That was my first thought.

Is it specifically designed to be used IN the engine room. If not, it won't have spark protection etc.

Second GIANT RED FLAG

If the gen is not set up to run off the main ships tank I don't think it's made for that. I hope I'm wrong about the design.

Sparks are obviously an issue with any gasoline engine.This is why I have the vapor sensor alarm (Fireboy-Xintex MB-1),the blower right over the generator (that will run at all times with generator) and the fuel cap on the generator has an open (run) and close switch on the top. Not to mention I am going to crack the hatch open while in operation. Bottom line, you could say that it having the generator fuel tank in the engine compartment is dangerous, but if it is not running ,it does not pose a spark danger in itself, and the drive engine starters and alternators are spark suppressing.So the only time it is an issue is when the gen running and at that time the blower will be running and the hatch is open.Also, the generator will not be running while under way....Make sense?Sorry so wordy Mike

Not trying to ruin the project, but there is a reason diff types of gen's are made. It's all about safety and with gasoline engines, safety is number one.

I'm speaking from several years of experience having owned a very large marina and done everything from a tune up to a $1MM repair on Dave Thomas' Sea Ray 680SS.

Personally, I wouldn't go near that with a 300' pole. Better check with your insurance too.........................???

I own a Honda 2000i generator. Nice and light. Quiet. But not designed to be run in a closed space. I have two questions for you. How did you determine the temperature of the exhaust gas? And, are you sure a 2000 watt generator, rated at 16 amps max, can run a 10000 btu ac unit? And other accessories?

I started a deck railing ON FIRE by running the EXACT same generator you have too close to the ballusters. And this was outside. I'm assuming that it takes more than 180 degrees to start wood ON FIRE. And, I was running the geni in the Eco throttle mode, which is idling most of the time. Your generator is going to be at MAX while the ac is on. I think that silicone hose is going to melt.

I'm not trying to be a dickhead, but I'm really worried about this exhaust thing. I'm telling you straight up, the fire on the deck scared the pants of me. I couldn't believe it.

Good luck and please be safe!

You would have been better off and safer just running the generator on the swim platform, with a heavy gauge pigtail cord, since you're never running it while underway. Why go through all the hassle and the risk?

well if anything ever does happen and you file a claim with insurance and they find that was the cause....kiss the boat goodbuy cause they aint gonna pay with NON marine items onboard!

Michael,
That looks way to dangerous for a man with a new baby. I think you should ship the boat out here to me and I will test it for a few years for you. Free of charge even.:D

I think I agree with this, but I also respect the amount of thought that was put into it. If it were me (which it's not) I would only run it with the hatch up a foot or so at minimum.

Co2 censors in the bilge and cabin might be a good idea too.

I have other ideas about the exhaust too, thinking you could use a "venturi" set up to mix the (hot) exhaust gases with cooler air before it exits.

I agree, but if you are running the a/c, it must be hot out. If the hatch is up a foot in the air, or at all for that matter, how are you going to go swimming and get back in the boat? Unless you don't swim?

Looks great with a lot of thought.

Has anyone ever considered making a wet exhaust system for such a condition? Couldn't be hard. 2 peices of SS pipe to make the dual wall exhaust pipe with the inner pipe extended to clamp around the Gen exhaust or high temp hose, with a another small AC pump supplying the water for the jacketed pipe. Be even quieter too! :)

Wow - the money and time spent coming up with that and you decided not to go with a small Weterbeke or something??

Let me guess - you'll trust your life on a $35 CO2 detector? Your basically placing all the gas fumes, CO2, in a sealed tub - with no USCG spark protection whatsoever..... and you plan on sleeping in that thing?

You do what you want - but I'll say a prayer for you if you keep that set up. That's one of the most dangerous set ups I've seen.

Think about it - if it was that easy to use a portable generator in the engine room - wouldn't everyone be doing it?

I'm going to beg you to get that thing out of the engine room before something happens.

ditto

Guys,Thanks for all the advice. I do appreciate it. As far as the exhaust temp goes, I ran 1" hose that is rated at 350 deg F. Now I ran the generator for a half an hour (with a section of hose connected) and it got up to about 210 deg.and about 90 deg at the thru hull fitting. I was thinking of running a temp sender on the hose and having the gauge in the cabin. I can run the generator where it is at or on the swimstep but it will have the hatch open if inside. Also I think I am going to get a side latter made because of the length of the boat.like this one...

Hmmmmmmmm, this is causing more of a stir than I thought. First off, a Westerbeke, Kohler, nor Onan will fit in a 38" Scarab. Two, it is not one but two Co (not Co2) detectors that run about $135 each which btw should be on ALL boats with generators not just mine. Three, I am NOT going to sleep with the generator running EVER. I am not slamming ANYBODY here, these are all viable concerns. BUT, I am not taking all the chances that a lot of you think that I am.The gen will have a blower on and the hatch will be open...

Michael, were you running the generator under a heavy load, like with an air conditioner connected? Just running the generator vs. running it under a full load will make a huge difference. Remember, mine started wood on fire!

Yes, I was running the actual A/C unit for the boat that was sitting on a tool cart with a hose running water through it and a fan to simulate the waterpump load. I am definatly going to monitor the exhaust temp closely no matter what I decide to do with the gen.Mike

Wow, maybe they changed the exhaust design and somehow added airflow into the exhaust to cool it down. Sounds like you've got it covered.

If we didn't like you we would stay mum. I have the exact same genny. At wfo, exhaust temp is 8 or 900 F. Your insurance surveyor will s**t himself. Open fuel vent in the engine room? I don't think so, Tim.

He got some of his setup advice from excursion who built the same setup 2-3 years ago. While I have the same Honda 2000 and put it on the swim platform to use I did see excursion use his in this manner for several years. He contacted Honda for advice and found the exhaust temps are much lower than most of us think....something in the 200 degree range. The exhaust hose he used was rated for 650 degrees and his was strapped down similar to Michaels. This setup should be fine.....although I admit, I'm not going to copy it. :)

.....also, FWIW. This is in NO WAY marine approved and any accidents will rest completely on your shoulders. Just be prepared for similar opinions if this is seen at your local marinas.

Weterbeke in 38 Scarab
 

Just for the record I had a Westerbeke installed in my 38 Scarab (I have since sold it). It had the factory a/c and the Westerbeke worked great, even at 80 mph!

Also, I do know of a Baja in Texas that has the Honda in the engine compartment for 2 years with no issues.

Good luck, and be careful.....

What size westerbeke is that?

It's a 3kw gas. I had it powder coated Mercury Blue.

Now that is an option I could consider. What year 38' did you have?any more pics? What do those gens run? Installed?thanks. Mike

Mike, The Scarab was a 2003 Model. The Westerbeke was around $3500.
The Labor was around $7000. It was not an easy installation. They notched the center stringer out (about 5"), then re-enforced the stringer along each side. Then they made a flat platform for the gen. They routed the exhaust out the side (the large outlet on the side in picture). They installed dual water intakes (this is like the new Formulas use). One intake is below the water line and one above. This allows the use of the gen sitting still, or running full throttle. I also had them install a shore power/gen switch in the cabin, as well as 2 co2 detectors. The gen will easily run the a/c and battery charger with no strain at all. The installation was done during the winter so the shop took there time doing it. Like I said it was a lot of work, but the end result was worth it. I used it 1 summer with the gen and had it running most of the time. The fuel intake was hooked in to the main fuel tank and didn't notice much fuel consumption. Of course running 575's with blowers burned so much fuel the gen didn't make a difference. I don't have any more gen pics, but here are a couple of the boat. I went to a cruiser and I really am starting to miss the Scarab, especially with Poker Run season starting. I hope I have answered your questions.

Hey Mike. It looks like you went to alot of trouble to do this project. Several people have voiced their concern about running an "outside only" generator in a "gas fumes" environment. You have to know this is a dangerous thing. It can work well dozens of time, but fail just once and disaster. :(

I have a Cig Bullet with built-in shore power. I have though about installing A/C and running it via the shore power network. To run the A/C away from shore, I would strap a Honda 2000 to the swim platform and connect it to the shore power outlet.

If your Scarab has built-in shore power, I think your could easily implement my idea and be much safer.

Just my two-cents... :cool:

That was a great deal on the gen. I priced online and it shows $5300 just for the gen. 7k for the install,wow, that must have been a lot of labor. It sounds like it just by your description. Well ,seeing that my boat is one of a kind, it is probably worth the investment. Probably next year though. I've had it for a year and not taken it out once yet. And the baby is getting induced tommorow. Sooooooo it looks like maybe may will be the first time out.Thanks Mike

hijack.....
does anyone make CG certified Braded SS fuel line with an fittings?

I have surveyed a few boats with that 3.0KW Westerbeke genset and she's a real beauty. $7,000 to install it seems very expensive. Just my $0.02.

Anchoring
 

I have used my Honda 2000 a couple of times on the swim platform. One time I was anchored front and back to stay close to shore and the wind changed. The CO detectors went nuts when the wind started blowing from the stern. Remember the wind is a factor when anchoring.