Boat Mechanic vs. Airplane Mechanic
 

Just wondering what the general concensus on this forum is.

I wouldn't want a boat mechanic working on my airplane, and vice verse. Just wonder why some folks think that the qualifications of an aircraft mechanic make him/her more qualified to work on a boat than say a marine mechanic with equivilent schooling, training and time on the job.

quite simple there are a hell of a lot more planes in the ocean,
that boats in the sky!!:D

Aircraft mechanics learn more discipline for proper procedure and are used to a better system of checks and balances to limit failures in the craft that can be disastrous. General knowledge of things mechanical, electrical, and hydraulic make technical jobs blend from one trade to another but if the discipline is not there the work is compromised.

Well as a Tech. I was an ASE Master tech by 20, worked on cars and motorcycles from about the age of 12, switched full time to motorcycles in 1992 at 22 makes me 37 now. I have almost always been the shop foreman and or the highest paid guy in the shop, I take alot of pride knowing when the other guys can't fix it they call me. I have worked and work with people that are Helicopter, airplane , heavy equip. techs , you name it I have worked with tech's from a lot of other fields.

From what I find 5 % of the good techs can fix anything and do it right and have pride in their jobs, 5% are on the way to being the next top guy, 5 % need to stick to one field and do a good job by the book, another 10 % are good helpers and do what they are told, the rest need to sell their tools.

I don't know about you guys but....I have worked for airlines in the past (ground maintance) and came across alot of ap's out there. Some of those guys have no business with a wrench in there hands.

LMAO :evilb:

I run a Maintenance department for an automotive supplier. We have 20 people covering several trades from hydraulic, mechanical, pneumatic, electrical, controls, instrumentation, Automation, etc... there's not much that I can't understand. But I always go to the guy that does it all the time. My brother-in-law is a merc mechanic, I was just asking him about gimble rings last week. Go to the guys that has the Experience.

Regardless of training, Attitude and attention to details are what separates the good techs from the great techs. Those are traits that the tech training doesn't supply. I hate to hear "it's close enough". I usually reply "so will be your paycheck".

There are good and bad people in any occupation; doctors, cops, airplace mechs, waiters etc...

The aviation field is regulated fairly strictly by the FAA so like Boatfixr says 'disiplined on procedures'. But that doesn't mean he knows Jack about the gimble ring. He could though, maybe he has a boat.

Three component make the best Techs.
1. Training
2. Experince
3. Attitude (attention to details / disipline)

One thing is for sure, if either one of them fails, it's not like you can just get out and walk away.

"""From what I find 5 % of the good techs can fix anything and do it right and have pride in their jobs, 5% are on the way to being the next top guy, 5 % need to stick to one field and do a good job by the book, another 10 % are good helpers and do what they are told, the rest need to sell their tools."""

I couldn't agree more

Years ago I was a certified aircraft mechanic, left that field and went into communications and am now a marine mechanic owning a high performance boat shop. This was always my passion so I"m doing what I love now. What I can say about my aircraft training is that I learned to follow procedures and documentation. In my training I learned how things worked and why, not just to see a symptom and replace a part. I have carried that training throughout my life in everything I do. But to be effective you must have an intimate knowledge of the product you are working on whatever it is. So, a good aircraft mechanic does not necessarily make a good boat mechanic unless they have the training and experience to go with it. But, they should have the foundation to learn quickly and do a high quality job.

Bob
Full Throttle Marine

I have found in our shop the better the mechanic the worse he is with paper work.

Geez, and we have lousy on both ends.

I think the attention to detail is where it's really at.
Not the "OK, I'll get it running, and then I'll come back and neaten it up tomorrow".
Seems like tomorrow never comes.

I work on an aircraft mechanics boat. He is a do it yourselfer on his boat but like most he comes to the shop when he can't handle something. He is a top aircraft mechanic that gets flown all over the country to diagnose and repair problems. After seeing the work he's done on his boat engine, I feel unsafe flying. Maybe it's because he's out of his area of expertise, but some of his work is just plain sloppy.

Very true, I hate paper work. The worst guy in my shop could hand write greeting cards, I can't even make my name look good.:D

My curiosity stems from my association with other techs in this field. I've met 5 so far that came from the aircraft maintenance side and they had difficulty making the change. Especially with the Verado applications and they were usually pretty stumped at the prospect of 6 drive work.

Transmissions (racing or otherwise) were another topic altogether.

Bobl hit the nail on the head ! The majority of the techs I have worked/am working with are "non-diagnostic". For the problem described these guys will just throw parts at it until it's fixed.

That mentality infuriates me.

The worst part of the AP guys for me is they all 5 finger all the Ti. hardware from their shops and use it on their bikes and it's all Euro. metric.

Don't always blame the guy in the field. When you take our labor rate vs. the cost of the replacement parts, it has become company policy to just figure out what component is causing the problem and replace it. It's cheaper to replace the whole (whatever) and send it back to china/mexico/texas and have them rebuild it than to have us do it in the field.

That's all I see out of the techs we have. And when that doesn't work, fly in the Factory guy.

Cheaper to send something back to China????? What??????????????

In my shop the way we weed out the parts hangers / bad techs is.

1. We pay 100 % flat rate comm. we pay well but you have to turn to earn.

2. I have to ok any high dollar part before it gets ordered or put on.

3. I Q/C ( look over ) every bike, jet ski, mower, that go's out the door, nobody wants to miss something that should have been done or didn't do it right, and in turn one of them looks over my work because I am human too, plus they see I do everything I make them do. And the person that does the Q/C gets to pay himself 15 minutes witch is billed into 95% of the jobs we do.


We get a lot of people that try to rush to flag as many hours as they can but they wind up loosing time because I make them go back and fix / service it right , or they just can't grasp it and can't get up to speed. I have been lucky now I have 8 great guys they have all been there over 3 years I don't need anybody now so it's less training I have to do and more work I can get done.

You'd think it would be backwards. If a plane mechanic F's up you'd hear about it...... it's not like a lousy boat mechanic would have anyone left to complain he didn't fix the plane right the first time!!!

Wall Paper
 

I get called into a lot of jobs when the "trained technicians" can't get a it right. I walk into shops that have a lot of "wall paper" all these certificates of all the training that their techs have been through. But if the problem is just slightly out of the normal realm they can't diagnose it. I just got called in on a brand new boat. The bow thruster would only turn in one direction. They replaced the unit, they replaced controls they "checked" all the wiring to no avail. Time to call "Expensive Ed". One look at it I turn around and tell them "The cables are too skinny". I calculated the load to line loss and told them to replace the 2/0 cables with some 4/0 ones.
Got a call a week later everything was great. Then the shop chief said he knew I was a diesel tech but he didn't know I was an electrician too. I told him I'm not an electrician . But any good diesel technician needs to know electrical theory. If a diesel tech can't figure out battery cable size how can he properly install an engine. Under size the cable and you will have all kinds of starting problems. A lot of "qualified techs" out there have no idea of basic electrical, hydraulic and mechanical theory. Also they have no process of elimination skills so they can't diagnose real problems.:p

In 30 years of motorsports I have met all kinds.

Some could diagnose anything but I would not let them near the tool box.

Then I had some that were brillant at the wrench but would have a hard time diag-ing a missing wheel.

Then there were a few that tuned engines, make 6 2-barrel webers sing like a song just by ear.

A few could do it all. But they were often moody and hard to work with.

So I think it is the person that is the most important.

A good tech really needs:

1. Common Sense
2. Patience
3. Confidence
4. Open mindedness
5. Pride

And then he can start training. In today's technical world if you don't learn something every day then you are not paying attention!

That is a fact !

As a Master Auto and Medium/Heavy Truck tech, and long time shop owner, I couldn't agree more. If anything, those numbers may be a bit high. Sad, isn't it?

I have to go along with 29Firefox and Trippin.
The lack of diagonstic skills seperates the pros from the wannabes.
ed

Bob is da man! He is my mechanic. I am just a "parts replacer". :D

I'll sum it up like this:
An A&P aircraft mechanic is trained by an accredited program, tested by the federal governmant and accountable for every screw he turns and job he does.
A boat mechanic is a guy that says he's a boat mechanic, its up to you to find out what he actually knows... usually an expensive process with no accountabuility.

Yea, you hit the nail on the head ............ Just to elaborate on your great point if you don't mind .......... No deviation's from the maintenance manual is permitted in aviation ......... These are highly complex machines operating under severe conditions traveling at near mach speeds, global nav systems, full autoland, fully pressurized, Retractable landing gear, a fuel system alone that would totally blow your mind ............... those are just a few high points .......... 65 interfaced computers help with the rest ....

I will AGREE with you. I am an A & P and a pilot. I have worked with a few folks that should have been working at the 7-11 and not on aircraft.

That about sums it up. I've been working on corporate/private jets for over 25 years (A&P, IA), and have a commercial pilot's rating with types in Falcon and Lear. Currently, I am a self-employed technical consultant/contractor and trainer on Dassault FalconJet aircraft.
I will admit there plenty of decent technicians out there working on all types of equipment; what sets the good apart from the bad is the ablility to diagnose and troubleshoot complex problems. The best of the best are VERY proficient electrically. If you don't have the skills with schematics and can't make heads from tails with a Fluke in your hands, you don't have a shot at correctly repairing a Geo Metro.

There are more than a few A&P's out there that love to puff their chest up about working around machines that now cost up to $65 million. The fact is, the responsibility taken when signing off the simplest of tasks on a small single-engine piston-powered Cessna is no different than a sign-off on a $57 million Canadair Global Express, Falcon 7X, or Gulfstream G550. The Feds have your name, soc#, and your address. Any deviation from procedure that causes an incident or accident, and you're open to FEDERAL scrutiny as well as a slew of lawsuits. The regulations would fill all the open space in your home, and they have to be followed, as well as everything the manufacturer of the equipment requires. I have been the Director of Maintenance for several corporate and charter jet operators in my day, and have been held directly responsible for the airworthiness of those aircraft by the FAA (they have to have someone to point the finger at).
In the automotive or marine industry, you have no obligations or responsibility to do the job right to anyone but yourself, your boss, and the customer, and that's if you have your values in the correct place.
For all of you that appreciate all that beautiful rigging accomplished by the elite in the offshore industry; don't forget that it's copied from what is and has been practiced in aviation since the first regulations were written.:cool-smiley-011:

An oversight.........
 

Let me make a slight correction. Since I have been in the field (on & off since 1991), I have encountered many a technician. However as of lately I have had the pleasure to work with one technician who did come from the A&P side of the world. He is highly knowledgable and I can depend on him regardless of circumstance, he know's who he is and so do the rest of the you.

I think the problems started about the time they stopped being mecanics and became technicians.

I spent half my day today on the phone with BMW service shops. First a dealer, then a widely regarded independent. Finally I got to talk to a mechanic. The problem is with my daughter's 528. She had a minor fender-bender and the body shop delivered it back with a check engine light. I returned it and they shipped it to the dealer. Dealer calls 3 days later and says it needs a VANOS (variable valve timing controller) I called and asked "how do you know" They say "that's the code in the computer" I called the body shop and explained why that wasn't the problem and it didn't need $1400 in repairs. They said "we'll take it to XYZ". OK. I get a conference call from the body shop and the guy from XYZ. It needs to be torn down- there's a VANOS problem. Trouble is, the guy assumed I didn't know anything and I caught him in a lie. Instead of looking at live data, he pulled the code and saw a payday. he tried to double-talk his way out of it and buried himself. Car is now off to a small independent that has so much work, he doesn't even have a sign on the building. Why? He's an old guy, a mechanic and he's honest. He connects his scanner, sees live data, sees no signal from the cam sensor and swaps one in. Problem solved and for under $100.

Excellent, glad to hear that worked out for you. That's like replacing a PCM for an odd running condition problem without diagnosing the problem first.

I bet all of you are the loser of your shop. I know trippin is. You all need to get a life and stop posting about work when you get home.

From what I find 5 % of the good techs can fix anything and do it right and have pride in their jobs, 5% are on the way to being the next top guy, 5 % need to stick to one field and do a good job by the book, another 10 % are good helpers and do what they are told, the rest need to sell their tools.[/QUOTE]

I think LOR's numbers apply to every industry. I have yet to hire a contractor, a lawyer, or see a doctor (except 1 dentist) that was truly good at what they do. I've worked with 1 military aircraft tech, one of the worst techs I've ever met.

Correct diagnosis usually requires far more talent
than replacing/repairing.

Pesky Varmint

Interesting first post.
Eh hem, welcome to the board...

At a $100 bucks an hour I ain't losing ****:p