Hot Duck,
Your 39 is one of my favorite Cigarettes.

Thanks for the reply. We are seeing mid 80s out of our boat which I am told is normal for the center steer versions. They are evidently a little heavier than the conventional setups. I don't know this for fact and I have never weighed this boat, but several people have told me that the center steer Cigs carry a little extra weight. I might have to try it without the mufflers this summer to see what happens! :drink:


Thanks for the kind words! I really like this boat. I wasn't sold on the paint job until I saw it in person. Like most of the other boats on this board, the pictures just don't do it justice.

Here are the pictures of the mufflers. Maybe somebody here can tell us what brand they are. As I mentioned before, I don't know because they were there when I bought the boat.

Anybody know who makes these mufflers?

In the second pic, you can see the outline of a logo on the top which looks very much like my HPI mufflers(now aquapowerltd.com).

they look like gibsons 'bullet' mufflers

Here is a pic of my Gibson mufflers. They look very similar so may be them.

Aqua Power logo. Compare to pic #2 above.

They look like HPI's, but the internal flapper is throwing me off

Yep, but my internal flappers are part of my Merc Racing tips from header to transom. That may be what you are seeing.

Good news! We finally got around to finishing the swap and the new Stellings are installed. Here are a few pictures taken with a camera phone. I left the mufflers on rather than installing regular exhaust tips, but I am wondering if I can remove the internal flapper since we have the rubber ones on the outside. You can hear the internal ones "flap" open and closed at idle. No bid deal, but if I could get rid of that noise I would. Any ideas?

Anybody know if we can remove the internal flappers in the mufflers? We have rubber flappers on the outside.

HD,
Looks sweet, sorry I don't know the answer to your question about removing the internal flappers in your mufflers. But I would take the safe approach if it were me, and keep them. I have the same set-up w/o mufflers.
Dean

Stelling makes great headers, and Randy is great to work with.

Anybody out there have any experiance with the Stainless Marine and Stelling headers on the 525s? I am looking at Stellings, Stainless Marine or others. My first Fountain cmi/merc experianced a pin hole header leak at 18 hours. My second Fountain had the new style cmi/mercury headers one of those literally leaked with zero hours when we took it out of the box. To cmi's credit they repaired the 18 hour used header and replaced the new defective header. Now I have approx. 15 hours on the new set of headers and I did a leak down and as a result found one of the headers is leaking. Pulled the head found signs of salt on 4 of 8 valves and a seized ring on one cylinder. Fortunately I drain the headers after every use and caught this problem before it became a more serious problem. But it still looks like its going to require a valve job and pulling the motor and one piston at about $ 3,000. I really can't believe such great engines (525s)could be attached to such a crap header. I can only imagine the scope of this problem and what it has cost consumers. I have read the previous replys any further input regarding cost, reliability and service of other manufactures would be greatly appreciated.

Is it needed?
 

I think I am going to design and offer a drill and tapping kit to fit the Mercury HP525 cylinder head so you guys can drill and tap the two added exhaust flange holes needed to buy and use some of the many other brands of crack free headers and header manifolds that are in the market which should eliminate this cracking/pinhole issue which appears to be damaging a moderate number of Mercury HP525's. Its nice that CMI seems to be paying for some of the actual header repairs for some users, however the engine damage, potential engine damage is not covered and obviously that is going to be the big expense and issue.
Give us some feedback here and let me know if there is enough interest in this type of refit kit in the market that we can justify making one available.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

I had to drag this thread up. I have a single engine boat in our shop right now that was factory eqipped with a 525efi. The starboard header got hot enough to melt the bellows and make a huge mess. Water in the header tube, thermostat OK, water pump OK, a little sand, not enough to cause a water flow issue. What do you think?? Header issue internally?

I think that's a great idea, it would give a lot of these guys more options to work with. :ernaehrung004:

Even if you have to buy your kit, the "other" options (which last longer with 5 yr warranty) cost significantly less anyway.

Had my cmi header repaired already this season.

So it doesn't matter what year the 525's are, they all have this problem STILL?
That will make me think 2x about buying a boat with 525's!
Dean

Dean..

I think the 525, 600, 700s all use the same header....???

I have 2005 525's and had a pinhole leak on outer tube of a starboard header 2nd tube from the front at 150 hrs. repaired and pressure tested at CMI for free.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/a...er-issues.html Some good info here.

OR,
Thanks for the link. It sure seems like alot of people have had some sort of leakage issue with these headers.
It's too bad, I think the 525 EFI is a great motor except for this ongoing header problem........:eek:

Dean

Anyone know if the new E-Tops for the 496 has had any related problems as of yet?

Is this real or an aboration? Inquring minds want to know
 

I don't know if there is anything to this thought or not , but could it be that since Ed sold CMI to the new corporate owner, the weld problems and leak problems on CMI's have possibly increased disproportionatly. I wonder if the processes after welding such as heat treating or such or the material of the weld or tube material has changed somehow to exagerrate the problems that seem to be appearing in some Sporttubes sets both 496 and HP525?? Or was this a CMI condition from day one?? Just throwing a thought out there as I wonder if this is really a big problem or just a normal thing with a lot of over exposure here on OSO? I know among a lot of 496 owners and engines with CMI's we have seen a moderate percentage of leaking CMI header sets, both new and lightly used applications.
At this point we have stopped recommending CMI header upgrades to our customers until we feel comfortable with the overall possibility of a no-leak CMI header.

Has anyone seen this same condtion in the Stellings or Hardin stainless tubular headers or is this pretty much more isolated to CMI??

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Ray,
Thanks for the info. sure seems to be a continuing problem. What headers are you recommending to your customers?
Thanks,
Dean

I think the problem is isolated to salt water boats. Has anyone had a failure in a freshwater only boat?

Hell, I am not sure ?
 

Water type does not seem to be the issue in the leaks and problems we have been exposed to and seen first hand.

The only headers we are now recommending are the Dana and Kieth Eikert cast type header manifolds that have been hard anodized for salt water use if so used and carefully mated to captains call-silent choice if so equipped.
We do not have enough personal expierence with other header manufacturers such as Stellings, Hardin, and Lightning to make a factual statement about how they are performing from a leak or cracking standpoint.

We are also careful to inform customers that routing exhaust outlets down and around thru right angle S-pipes and such may be a problem on bigger horsepower engines were larger cam durations and greater exhaust flow with water in the system ahead of the S-pipe or large direction changes can sometimes back water up into the header and ultimatly into the engine.

We do all our break in and dyno testing with the engines fully accessorized with raw water pumps, wet exhaust just as they will be in a boat and we have actually have expierenced water intrusion back into the engines exhaust side on the dyno with S-tubes installed right behind the riser outlets and some problems with switchable exhaust diverters like captains call- silent choice type even at idle rpms due to what we call exhaust water bounce back syndrome. This has happened with engines with fairly mild cam durations that do not revert with the exhaust properly routed and exhaust water plumbed at a better entry point.

Bottom line, on my boat I would not run a high performance engine 500HP plus normally aspirated with headers routed thru captains call-silent choice type switchable system or thru S-tube diverters to clear and integrated transom without dumping the exhaust water behind the switchable valves and after the drop in an S-tube system where the water outlet is faced toward the actual transom outlet.

This is remember Raylars opinion and is not the last word in what exhaust is right for everybody else and we are certainly not the last word in performance marine exhaust headers!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Ray,
Great post, and I'm a big fan of Eickert's exhaust myself. I don't think the Dana marine would fit in my Nordic 35 Flame's TIGHT engine compartment!:eek:
Dean

PM,
Hadn't heard that, but great Q, and I'm really interested in other's responses to this Q, since 90% of my boating is in salt water.

Dean

Anyone know when Merc bought CMI? Like what year?
Thanks,
Dean

Do you have a part number for the Dana and Keith Eikert for a 2006 525? Thanks.

Just going to throw a couple things out here and see what others think as well ...............

Some of the problems I've seen brought up on here are staggered set ups not having the extra supports, resulting in cracking/leaking at the flanges due to all the extra weight of all the pipe it takes in this engine set up, some say the extra braces installed at the rear of the engine cure this.

Heat problem at the flange where the pipe is welded on, resulting in a similiar type of failure. This seems to be more in the earlier style that did not have the "cool collar" design that allows for more cooling water flow closer to the flange. It has been said that this newer design, "cool collar" style, is not prone to this failure.

Not saying this is gospel here, just some of what I've picked up on thru the threads related to this.
I have the newer "cool collar" style, side by side set up, with the silent choice option on the Fountain and so far have not had a problem. At least not that I'm aware of at all. I do agree with Ray in that at times things on here do get expanded a bit beyond what might be the actual deal.

Question here for Ray ........... Is there a way to tell if you have an internal leak or water reverting back in an engine that seems to be running fine? I realize that this will often show up on tear down, but can you tell otherwise?

i dont see any one having trouble with the other brand of tube headers, if they where having promlems i sure you would here about it on this site,,i know a guy running stelling ,,, he has no problems,,=cmi always use it say it was a merc problem,,because merc gave cmi the specs for the headers,,and if you bought from cmi direct with there in house specs,you didnt have a problem,or less of them,,,that bring us to today,,dont know where cmi is with reguards to quality control

How many hours do you have on them now?

Most of these in salt water?

We already debated with Ray the potential reversion problems with CMI headers plus silent choice in this thread.
It was actually related to 496 block, whose CMIs are different (the 2 lower tubes are connected to the 2 back cylinders), but I don't see why the considerations should be much different.
Ray gave me some suggestions in that thread (aside from the main recommendation to get rid of the silent choice, that is).
For how long have you been running with your setup?
Also in my boat, after 60 hours or so with the CMI+switchable exhaust on a stock 496 (200 hours in total, previously with the stock header+switchable exhaust), the engine seems to run just fine, but what I read was enough to make me a bit worried about it anyway...

Is there a difference from the CMI's that were on the HP500efi?

[QUOTE=RaggedEdge;3019777]Just going to throw a couple things out here and see what others think as well ...............

Some of the problems I've seen brought up on here are staggered set ups not having the extra supports, resulting in cracking/leaking at the flanges due to all the extra weight of all the pipe it takes in this engine set up, some say the extra braces installed at the rear of the engine cure this.






RE,
That is the exact set-up I'm looking @ a full staggered 525's in a 38 foot boat! Please see attached pic.

I'm less excited about this configuration the more I read about this problem:eek:

Dean

500's used E-tops