1993 Checkmate 281 Convincor or 1995 Formula 271 SR-1
 

going back and forth and would appreciate any input...the Convincor is powered by twin 502's and runs in the high 80's and the Formula is a stock 502 and runs low 60's...

the 271 is a Indy 500 edition and has a perfect hull with an above average interior...the 281 has a perfect hull with an average interior that may need some work in the near future...

curious on how different the ride will be between the boats and considering the same price on both boats what would be your choice and why?

Better think about fuel costs.

the indy formula will be a lot easier to resale down the rode.

how so? are the indy models sought after?

they didnt make very many of them so yes, it is sort of a collector boat.

plus, with this economy a single engine boat is a lot easier to sell.

thanks for the input...any other opinions?

A friend of mine has a 271 Indy, nice boat, great ride. I would guess low 60's

We just sold my finace's 251 Checkmate Convincor w/ a single 250 outboard. The boat wasnt anything to write home about, it needed to have exactly 2 to 3' chop to run right, it needed heavy port tab to keep it level and in rough water it felt like driving a garbage can. So not to sound like a Checkmate basher Ive spent some time in an older 30 w/ twin stock 454 mags and the boat ran good.

Personally I would go with the Formula, the Indy 500 package probably wont mean much on the resale side but the single engine and the name will sell. The ride is going to be a lot better in rough water but the boat will be slower and have less cabin space.

Formula.

can i ask why? does checkmate not make a good boat?

Its not that Checkmate doesnt make a good boat. Boats are just like automobiles, they all have pros and cons. A Miata isnt going to handle like a Z-4 although they look similar. Checkmate will no doubt go faster on less power becase it is lighter and that compromises ride in rough water, and it has HUGE cabin space for its size. The Formula is built a little heavier which makes it a more stable ride in the rough but speed will be slower. Formula is a more established boat builder and the name and reputation will keep its resale value highter than a Checkmate of the same year make and model. It really all depends on what you want to do with the boat.

There is nothing wrong with the ride qaulity of Checkmates. We had a 251 and I would put that boat up against just about any 25 footer.

Both boats are nice but its hard to compare, Twin engines is a whole new beast. If you are just doing day trips on a river or lake then signel is the way to go, if you need to go on long trips and want some security then go with twins. Whats your plan for the boating.

Checkmate is usually a great rough water boat. However a 28 Checkmate w/twin BB's is a very tail heavy boat which may hurt in in rough water. The Formula may not be as fast but top shelf quality and better/easier resale.
We won't even talk about fuel differences...

What he said...

Personally, I was not very happy with the way that my 251 Checkmate rode. I would go with the Formula - better resale value, uses less gas and most likely a better ride.

Donzi- I'm not doubting your impression of your boat but I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Your boat was the narrow bottom 25' during the first few yrs that Cmate manufactured the boat. Also, to compare an older single 25' OB to a 90s dual 28' IO is not even going to be close in the ride catagory.

Stankgilr- Both are going to be great boats. Like people posted before me....it just depends on what you want out of the boat. The Formula will be a better ride, hold its value a little better and probably more luxurious. The Checkmate will obviously be alot faster but with more of a "looser" ride.

Both great boats, just water test them and see what fits your needs and personality.

X-

Got a Formula 272.. Hits 60, but a great ride. I would go with the Formula, mostly due to their long established rep. while the Checkmate is nice, but I would go with the Formula. .02

I feel the Formula is a little higher end than the Checkmate and has a stronger hull, better rigging. Just my $.02

thanks all for your input...i plan on going to look at both of them on monday and i will report my findings...

i was initially sold on the formula, but i'm coming out of a 60mph boat and was having a hard time spending the money to go just as fast...so when i came across the checkmate it really peaked my interst...90mph sounds like fun and i could hold my own in a poker run if i was ever so inclined...:)

Ditto.

Also the condition of older formula's look much better than the older checkmates. I know your looking at early 90's. But try comparing the two brands with late and early 80's and even 70's models. I see lots of formula's being restored and the older ones look just as good as the newer ones, I can't say the same for checkmate.

If your looking for a 28 with twins the only builder's I would consider are.
Apache
Pantera
Saber

What is your budget?

Just curious, what other boats are you comparing the CM ride against? I'm not riding you, just curious as there are not too many people that aren't impressed with the ride of the 251.

budget is only 25k...wasn't really looking for a 28 w/ twins, because there aren't any in that price range...until this checkmate popped up...

the way gas prices are going theres alot more twins popping up for sale , look at boat trader online , theres a 94 29 scarab on there for 25k , pair of 350's and alpha's , small blocks wont break the bank on gas prices and are cheap to re-power if bad things happen , as for checkmate , i own one and love it , but mine is a 24 with a shallow V , not many made and it IS fast , but i dance on waves like a crazy chimp , not a ruff water boat , as for singles , i think i've seen that formula , it has a camper canvas (only one i have ever seen) its a nice lookin boat for the bucks there asking

oh yea , i early 90's 251 convincor just hit the clasifieds here for under 20k , yellow one , keeps 6k in your pocket for incedentals

gas prices aren't a HUGE deal to me...i'm on a smaller lake and spend most of my time anchored, but i want to be able to hang with the few big power boats around here when necessary...the scarab is nice, but i'll take built 502's w/ bravo's over 350's with alphas when they are the same price...

double your pleasure double your fun......and repair bills, and maintenence, and headaches.:D Filters and oil dont seem like much on a twin vs. single until you find yourself building a pair of new ones from the ground up. Sometimes buying the boat is the cheapest part.:angry-smiley-038:

Honestly, my 251 Checkmate (though to be fair, as x-driver said, it was a 1982 with a single OB) was the worst riding boat I've ever been in. Boats of comparable size that I've driven are a 24' Excalibur, 22' Donzi, 28' Donzi ZX, and 28' Cig. I've also riden Formulas and Bajas of around the 25' size. In rough water, I would have almost rather been in Dad's 22Donzi than my boat. The angle of the waves and chop had to be just right for that boat to ride smoothly.

It was also a b*tch to dock. For awhile I thought it was just me, but then I let other people try to dock it and they all had the same problem. It didn't really have a pivot point. It just kind of drifted sideways.


I may have been due to the OB or how the OB was set up (I bought it that way) but I just wasn't happy with the boat.

UMMMMm.......YUP!!!!

My budget was close to that. I bought one of these and I've helped two other OSO members get into 28 apache's for $25K. It may not be perfect.........but its not a checkmate either. Have patience........ when you find the right boat it will be an easy choice.

If the Formula is in jersey , it's my buds boat. Very well maintained and nice with the camper canvas extra. We've done a bunch of runs together and I really like the boat. I know it will handle the rough better than the check. Saw it monday up at the shop where it is stored.

I've never really been impressed w/ the finish on the checkmates.

The Formula is a 25 ft boat with 2 ft of builtin swim deck if I am right. that check is a full 28ft, which is 3 ft longer 8' beam better ride. make sure you take both out, and my friend raced 2 formulas in f2 apba and was not happy with the regular off the shelf 38 footer, broke the stringers and other boat parts. he raced them for 5years then sold them over seas for short money . he thought they sucked quality wise didn't buy a fountain because reggie pissed him off at the wet pits in 97 when he raced a superboat 30. andin the 80s they were not covering the plywood under the floors every good in up to the late 80s, look at audiofn boat under stringer repair jon had to replace bulkheads too I think. that 28 C M was a good rough water hull with twin OBs there use to be one in apba long time ago in B class. So take them out for a ride in some chop and I bet the 28 will ride a lil better C M makes a good boat a stronger resin I think it was ame 4000 or something they would say look it up and it takes a lot of hp [blower] to move a single formula to 85 or 90. you will be there with twin stock power in the checkmate. oh if you can come up with a few more dollars theres a white and yellow SUTPHEN 33 TWIN 502S STOCK 80 MPH UNDER SUTPHENS AND THERE NEW MOTORS THAT WILL OUT RIDE ANY OF THE ABOVE BOATS IN ANY SIZE. LOTS OF ROOM TO AND THEY LOOK MEAN ON TOP OF THAT. Thats my next hull since I can't afford a new 28 JOKER. A friend has a 31 that needs power and theres another 33 that needs work both are projects. I know of so I may pull the trigger on one of them this fall, because mine is going to be running after a restore this aug.

stankgilr, whats your budget, and location.

Depends on what year and which 28' model Checkmate he's looking at. Is it the Convincor or the ZX?

Just curious, who is your friend that raced F2??

Saw this Apache on eBay. Looks like it may be close to your budget.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Apach...spagenameZWDVW

I had a 83 Checkmate Convinsor and loved it. It had big blocks and I added on Whipples. The gell was great and the boat handled Lake Michigan (on most days) fine. I wish I still had it.

If you get the Checkmate, make sure you get plenty of seat time before attempting to bring it up in that 80-90 mph range.

I owned 2 Checkmates in the past a 97 242 Convincor an 99 ZT 280. I was very pleased with both boats, they both handled Lake Michigan water well. The 28 Convincor is a great rough water boat, I am not too crazy about Formula's, yes they are a great built boat but they don't have the look that gets my motor running! My advice is to spend more money up front it will save ya some aash down the road.

25k and i'm in north jersey

Gordo how you feeling man, I'll PM YOU NOW, not that it matters he's all done with boat racing, went to circle track with the old throw back cars:rolleyes::D.

did you look at the sutphen in classifieds for 30 or best offer:D

I think there are better things out there than the 2 you're looking at.

You may want to try a new post stating what you're budget is and location.
You'll see them come out of the woodwork!
Can't hurt and doesn't cost anything... beauty of this site.
We'll except for the membership fee's. ;)