Cost of ownership between large single and a small twin?
06-25-2008 | 02:21 PM
#21
JC Performance Engines
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Long Island, NY
boatnuts, i meant 25s in general, and that "Your setup was special due to its age" is because its and early 70s magnum.
The only way to buy a twin 25 today would be outboards.
Yes, most 25 magnums were built with twins.
The only other manufacturer that put twins normally in a similar sized boat was the 26 Sutphen, and that was mostly in the mid/late 80s.
Today you'd be fairly mad to put twin I/Os on a 25.
The new 27sutphen w/ 2xsbc, or 28joker, or 28 pantera, or 28saber would all be pretty cool w/ 450-475 mild 350s on stock b1s.
All that big HP blower motor stuff wouldn't suit me right now, especially knowing i have to have 2 bravo derivatives for backups when the one i'm running blows!
The only way to buy a twin 25 today would be outboards.
Yes, most 25 magnums were built with twins.
The only other manufacturer that put twins normally in a similar sized boat was the 26 Sutphen, and that was mostly in the mid/late 80s.
Today you'd be fairly mad to put twin I/Os on a 25.
The new 27sutphen w/ 2xsbc, or 28joker, or 28 pantera, or 28saber would all be pretty cool w/ 450-475 mild 350s on stock b1s.
All that big HP blower motor stuff wouldn't suit me right now, especially knowing i have to have 2 bravo derivatives for backups when the one i'm running blows!
06-25-2008 | 06:02 PM
#22
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Thanks for the all the input guys.
When I meant big single I meant a 28' boat with a 496HO. When I meant small twin I meant a 29' boat with twin 454s.
Based on where I'll be using it, and the threads posted, I'll be sticking with a 28' single 496HO on inland lakes and rivers.
When I meant big single I meant a 28' boat with a 496HO. When I meant small twin I meant a 29' boat with twin 454s.
Based on where I'll be using it, and the threads posted, I'll be sticking with a 28' single 496HO on inland lakes and rivers.
06-25-2008 | 06:41 PM
#24
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From: LOTO Performance Boat Center
I just upgraded to a 32' Sunsation twin from a 28' single Checkmate with a 500efi. As long as general maintenace goes twins are not that much more money on oil changes, drive oil, winterizing etc. That stuff really isn't that much anyway. The big difference I have noticed is fuel, could just be that gas is a buck a gallon more than last summer though. Filling up any boat right now just plain hurts. 75 gal @ 4.05 per gal = $337 you get the picture. I can say that my wife is alot more happy in the larger smooth riding 32' boat that we are currently in. Let me speak from experience, buy the boat you want the first time. I have been through 4 boats in 5.5 years. I am not saying I was not happy with each boat that I had, but selling, financing them is not as easy as it once was. Last but not least, giving uncle sam your sales tax just plain hurts! If I were you I would go big!
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02-03-2011 | 06:41 PM
#25
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From: Chicago
I just upgraded to a 32' Sunsation twin from a 28' single Checkmate with a 500efi. As long as general maintenace goes twins are not that much more money on oil changes, drive oil, winterizing etc. That stuff really isn't that much anyway. The big difference I have noticed is fuel, could just be that gas is a buck a gallon more than last summer though. Filling up any boat right now just plain hurts. 75 gal @ 4.05 per gal = $337 you get the picture. I can say that my wife is alot more happy in the larger smooth riding 32' boat that we are currently in. Let me speak from experience, buy the boat you want the first time. I have been through 4 boats in 5.5 years. I am not saying I was not happy with each boat that I had, but selling, financing them is not as easy as it once was. Last but not least, giving uncle sam your sales tax just plain hurts! If I were you I would go big!
My .02
My .02
02-03-2011 | 07:05 PM
#26
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From: Boca/Brentwood
Obviously it will cost more, but let me break it down. This is my estimated of expenses incurred thus far on my 28 apache with twin 454's 460hp modified mercs vs the single engine 502 390hp 24 python. Both were carbed engines.
1) Gas is the same, maybe even less on the apache. I run it at 3000-4000rpm as opposed to the 4000+rpm in needed in the 24. As someone else mentioned I think the benefits of better fuel consumption over a single engine boat only lies in boats 28-32ft.
2) Oil changes.....obviously twice as much, same with having the outdrives serviced. All in all oil, and outdrives was only an extra $300 per year (annual usage about 25 hours)
3) Insurance......about $870 more per year.
4) Engine replacement. Most of these big hp engines are in the $20K range. And thats what it takes to get them moving. If I blow that one engine I'm out $20K. I've seen 496's go for $10K.....so if I blow one I'm out $10K. If you blow two.........I guess your in the same boat, which ain't so bad considering the benefits. If you had twin small blocks you could replace one for as much as it would cost to rebuild some of these big HP engines.
5) Exhaust......you got me there, they will probobly last the same amount of time as a big hp single and I'll have two to replace.
Other benefits I see over the single:
1) Its faster than most 28ft single engine boats. Smoke those single's off the line and pray they don't have the top end to catch ya
2) With twin stock power vs big single your running at less rpm's to achieve the same speed and the strain on the outdrives is cut in half over the big hp single. So the outdrives should last longer.
3) Big hp engines normally required for single engine boats in the 28-30 range have shorter rebuild times than the stock merc engines. Hell I've heard of 500EFI's going to 1000hrs on a triple application. Merc's recommended rebuild time is at around 400hrs for the 500EFI.
4) One engine to get you home
5) Manuevarability around the docks
6) Extra weight for the rough.
So basically it cost twice as much for normal maintenance, but the engines and drives are also working 1/2 as much which in the long-run should make your equipment last longer. All in all excluding insurance it only cost me $300 extra to maintenance over my old single engine boat. I did do some compression test and fixed some other little things, but that goes with any boat. Hope that helps.
1) Gas is the same, maybe even less on the apache. I run it at 3000-4000rpm as opposed to the 4000+rpm in needed in the 24. As someone else mentioned I think the benefits of better fuel consumption over a single engine boat only lies in boats 28-32ft.
2) Oil changes.....obviously twice as much, same with having the outdrives serviced. All in all oil, and outdrives was only an extra $300 per year (annual usage about 25 hours)
3) Insurance......about $870 more per year.
4) Engine replacement. Most of these big hp engines are in the $20K range. And thats what it takes to get them moving. If I blow that one engine I'm out $20K. I've seen 496's go for $10K.....so if I blow one I'm out $10K. If you blow two.........I guess your in the same boat, which ain't so bad considering the benefits. If you had twin small blocks you could replace one for as much as it would cost to rebuild some of these big HP engines.
5) Exhaust......you got me there, they will probobly last the same amount of time as a big hp single and I'll have two to replace.
Other benefits I see over the single:
1) Its faster than most 28ft single engine boats. Smoke those single's off the line and pray they don't have the top end to catch ya
2) With twin stock power vs big single your running at less rpm's to achieve the same speed and the strain on the outdrives is cut in half over the big hp single. So the outdrives should last longer.
3) Big hp engines normally required for single engine boats in the 28-30 range have shorter rebuild times than the stock merc engines. Hell I've heard of 500EFI's going to 1000hrs on a triple application. Merc's recommended rebuild time is at around 400hrs for the 500EFI.
4) One engine to get you home
5) Manuevarability around the docks
6) Extra weight for the rough.
So basically it cost twice as much for normal maintenance, but the engines and drives are also working 1/2 as much which in the long-run should make your equipment last longer. All in all excluding insurance it only cost me $300 extra to maintenance over my old single engine boat. I did do some compression test and fixed some other little things, but that goes with any boat. Hope that helps.
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