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Originally Posted by Speedpro1
(Post 2633258)
I was a former Scarab owner myself. I have been around the offshore boat industry since the late 70's and worked on alot of them. I think your missing the point. Their weakness is taking the pounding of the ocean water compared to the lake water. As I said before, take any west coast mfg boat out and run it through the same paces as an east coast mfg boat in some rough ocean water and see which one holds up better. Thats why you weren't using Lavey Craft's, Schiada's or Howard's in your Seal Team. These companies all make really great boats and their rigging is awesome but they are (LAKE BOATS) or (RIVER BOATS). Sorry if I hurt your Feelings but it's the truth! Take your Advantage 28ft Sport Cat (LAKE BOAT) out in the ocean and run it hard and you are gonna be fixing alot of things when you get back to shore. I have had a Daytona too and it's a great boat, but it's a (LAKE BOAT). I don't loose any sleep over it! Check your own knowledge!
:cool-smiley-027: No hurt feelings here. It just seems like ya got a real chip on your shoulder about west coast boats. Making a blanket statement about all of them is pretty silly. About like someone calling all east coast boats heavy resin buckets. Doesn't make much sence either, does it? As for my Advantage, I never said it was designed for the big blue ,did I. But since you brought it up, I have had the Sport Cat out there many times. And even though the boat is ten years old, the gel on her is PERFECT. And not a single stress crack ANYWHERE. And no, I have not had to do repairs after an ocean run thank you. Not bad for a weak lake boat. But thanks for helping me make my point. Darrell. |
Originally Posted by Todd Hartigh
(Post 2633320)
Not sure about the 28 sport cat but I will put my 27 advantage V with twins up against any builder with close to the same size boat in true lake MI 3-5's any day. It rides better in the ruff than a 28 saber with twins, pantera 28 with twins, and 27 formulas with twins. Every one that I have ridden in and rode next to flies transom heavy. Better balance would likely make them equal though.
Mine was already very well balanced and rode great but extension boxes make the boat ride like a 32. It flies dead level no matter what you go through. There are plenty of east coast boats that come back from lake MI with plenty of things to fix. Allot of them cant take the pounding and have interior parts dangling and loose screws when they come back in. I have never tightened a loose screw, but likely won't have to since everything is through bolted with nyloc nuts. I did have a cabin door break the hinges then crack the door once. I would'nt say all are lake boats, considering there is a big ocean there with just as ruff of water as the atlantic. If I remember right warlock and lavey were right there in any F1 rough water race. Advantage dominated F2 from the start until the owners died. :cool-smiley-027: |
Originally Posted by Speedpro1
(Post 2633330)
First you have to realize that the salt water buoyancy is so much different pounding in the ocean than the buoyancy of fresh water. It is alot rougher on the boat. The Advantage race boat was not laid up like a boat they sell off the floor. Neither is Lavey Craft's. Go find a Warlock, they made such a great boat their not even in business anymore! The east coast has been building offshore boats for a long time and has got it down. The west coast manufactures have only recently within the last few years gotten into the offshore market. Go back a few years in Powerboat or HotBoat and you will see what I am talking about. Running your Advantage in a lake with rough water is still not like running it in ocean water. Doesn't even come close!
:cool-smiley-027: Now you are just talking crap. The great lakes can dish up just as nasty of a sea state as the ocean. And for the bouyancy factor, please..... Secondly, your going to try to say that every east coast race boat is the exact layup as a customers pleasure boat? Dude, put the pipe down. That's just nonsence. I'm still not sure where the west coast chip on the shoulder comes from. Darrell. |
Originally Posted by DMOORE
(Post 2633335)
Now you are just talking crap. The great lakes can dish up just as nasty of a sea state as the ocean. And for the bouyancy factor, please.....
Secondly, your going to try to say that every east coast race boat is the exact layup as a customers pleasure boat? Dude, put the pipe down. That's just nonsence. I'm still not sure where the west coast chip on the shoulder comes from. Darrell. Yes, the Great Lakes can deal up some nasty $hit but it is still not salt water. But if you still don't understand the bouyancy factor, now I see where the lack of knowledge comes from. Stay off the pipe! :cool-smiley-027: |
Originally Posted by Speedpro1
(Post 2633337)
I am not talking about race boats. You guys keep bringing up the west coast race boats and comparing them to offshore boats you buy off the floor.
:cool-smiley-027: You were talking about race boats. Reread your own post #42. As far comparing race boats to pleasure boats, Todd was comparing his pleasure boat to other pleasure boats. I still can't understand where all of the west coast negativity comes from. But hey, it's your choice to hate. Just be fair, and let others know before you give an opinion on a left coast boat. Darrell. |
Originally Posted by Speedpro1
(Post 2633330)
First you have to realize that the salt water buoyancy is so much different pounding in the ocean than the buoyancy of fresh water. It is alot rougher on the boat.
Michael |
There are only two things different in the layup:
1. vacuum bagging, optional on the pleasure 2. two additional bulk heads in the cabin. Mine is bagged, that is one nice thing about them. They sell exactly what they raced. Not to mention there F2 boat still had a half cabin. The one that ran great lakes silver cup series had a cabin. Look back at allot of the old apache vids...several were from grand haven, MI. There was a race here that still holds the record for sinking the most boats in one race. I would bet you have never once ran the great lakes. (on a ruff day, which is almost everyday) |
Originally Posted by Speedpro1
(Post 2633330)
Go back a few years in Powerboat or HotBoat and you will see what I am talking about.
:cool-smiley-027: |
Even with all the disageements, the only 2 names I have heard consistantly are Laveycraft and Warlock. Just found out that they have both raced offshore as well. Thanks guys for the input. Anyone else?
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quality boats are E-Ticket, DCB, Eliminator, Lavey, Nordic, howard in that order. As to ruff water rides..can not comment.
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Keep in mind, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't all the west coast boats we are discussing include a swim platform in thier length. If that's the case then my Superboat is 31'7" still running a single at as fast or faster speeds than the actual 26-28' west coast boats.:D
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The Race boats I've seen in Calif all have additions to the structure to withstand the offshore punishment. Not sure if they would hold up or not without it.
I will tell you I have never been in a more solid boat than mine. However, if you want to pay for bling, and 70's colors, stick with a west coaster, I've had a few before I went east.:rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by Sydwayz
(Post 2632707)
The NEW ones are wood free. This only changed in the past couple years.
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Originally Posted by FASTERDAMITT
(Post 2632843)
I like the Nordics but I don't think they are built for hard core stuff.
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Originally Posted by FASTERDAMITT
(Post 2633746)
Keep in mind, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't all the west coast boats we are discussing include a swim platform in thier length. If that's the case then my Superboat is 31'7" still running a single at as fast or faster speeds than the actual 26-28' west coast boats.:D
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Originally Posted by FASTERDAMITT
(Post 2633761)
The Race boats I've seen in Calif all have additions to the structure to withstand the offshore punishment. Not sure if they would hold up or not without it.
I will tell you I have never been in a more solid boat than mine. However, if you want to pay for bling, and 70's colors, stick with a west coaster, I've had a few before I went east.:rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by FASTERDAMITT
(Post 2633746)
Keep in mind, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't all the west coast boats we are discussing include a swim platform in thier length. If that's the case then my Superboat is 31'7" still running a single at as fast or faster speeds than the actual 26-28' west coast boats.:D
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There are some awesome west coast wave crushers that can handle most anything...
Eliminators 43' Eagle is a awesome boat. I believe it has a scarab bottom. Advantage 40' Poker Run Nordic 35' Flame and 42' Inferno Schiada - one word comes to mid, Quality. I believe that the 32' wins alot of offshore ski races. I know there are more... |
Originally Posted by Run_em_hard
(Post 2633789)
There are some awesome west coast wave crushers that can handle most anything...
Eliminators 43' Eagle is a awesome boat. I believe it has a scarab bottom. Advantage 40' Poker Run Nordic 35' Flame and 42' Inferno Schiada - one word comes to mid, Quality. I believe that the 32' wins alot of offshore ski races. I know there are more... |
Originally Posted by FASTERDAMITT
(Post 2633746)
Keep in mind, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't all the west coast boats we are discussing include a swim platform in thier length. If that's the case then my Superboat is 31'7" still running a single at as fast or faster speeds than the actual 26-28' west coast boats.:D
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28-30ft
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My 27 has a little 10" swim platform but they do not include it in the length.
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Originally Posted by FASTERDAMITT
(Post 2633746)
Keep in mind, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't all the west coast boats we are discussing include a swim platform in thier length. If that's the case then my Superboat is 31'7" still running a single at as fast or faster speeds than the actual 26-28' west coast boats.:D
The Howard bullet 28 ran 122 with a single. Your boat must seriously haul ass. Darrell. |
Originally Posted by Run_em_hard
(Post 2633795)
Not trying to be a dic but my old 22' Advantage had as much freeboard as your superboat.:(
I hear ya, but low profile give better stability and turning capability. Isn't that what people want? I like the standup freeboard for cruisers. If you going to race or drive aggressive I would take a Corvette over an SUV. |
Originally Posted by DMOORE
(Post 2633807)
The Howard bullet 28 ran 122 with a single. Your boat must seriously haul ass.
Darrell. |
Originally Posted by Run_em_hard
(Post 2633789)
There are some awesome west coast wave crushers that can handle most anything...
Eliminators 43' Eagle is a awesome boat. I believe it has a scarab bottom. Advantage 40' Poker Run Nordic 35' Flame and 42' Inferno Schiada - one word comes to mid, Quality. I believe that the 32' wins alot of offshore ski races. I know there are more... I agree, and like all these boats but this is about 28-30' boats. |
I have had two 29 Lavey Crafts....measured at transom.
I have run with the bigger boats in multiple situations....and the result is always the same. I'll get to where we are heading or back to the ramp and all the bigger boat owners say the same thing...." I can't believe how that thing runs....can't believe you hung with a 38 out in that stuff"..... The 29 is an awesome bottom - Lavey makes a great boat. 28 Howard (measued at the swim step) is a great, fast lake boat. I have yet in 4-5 years ever see one in the ocean - no idea how it handles the rough. Shockwaves - seem to do well in the ocean. My videos that I have provided the SCOPE club really show how well they handle a ground swell. |
The 29 Lavey is a very nice boat! Is your a single or twin?
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Originally Posted by Schweeng
(Post 2633881)
I have had two 29 Lavey Crafts....measured at transom.
I have run with the bigger boats in multiple situations....and the result is always the same. I'll get to where we are heading or back to the ramp and all the bigger boat owners say the same thing...." I can't believe how that thing runs....can't believe you hung with a 38 out in that stuff"..... The 29 is an awesome bottom - Lavey makes a great boat. 28 Howard (measued at the swim step) is a great, fast lake boat. I have yet in 4-5 years ever see one in the ocean - no idea how it handles the rough. Shockwaves - seem to do well in the ocean. My videos that I have provided the SCOPE club really show how well they handle a ground swell. |
Originally Posted by FASTERDAMITT
(Post 2633852)
I hear ya, but low profile give better stability and turning capability. Isn't that what people want? I like the standup freeboard for cruisers. If you going to race or drive aggressive I would take a Corvette over an SUV.
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Originally Posted by Run_em_hard
(Post 2633979)
I don't know much about Offshore Racing but doesn't almost all v-bottoms race with stand-up bolsters? I love being able to stand up in my Scarab.
http://www.laveycraft.com/28evo.htm Check out these: Extreme, Superboat, Activator, LaveyCraft, Phantom, Velocity ect.. |
Originally Posted by FASTERDAMITT
(Post 2634006)
I know in the old days they all where stand up boats because of the high freeboard. Almost all the 28-32' boats that have been winning the races now are low profile sit down hulls. There's a big trend going this way. Lavey's 28 Evo, you almost sit on the floor!
http://www.laveycraft.com/28evo.htm Check out these: Extreme, Superboat, Activator, LaveyCraft, Phantom, Velocity ect.. I wish people had been buying those Evo's, so I could be looking at used ones this winter. |
They are racing it since last year. Here is the Evo I raced with in POPRA.
http://www.laveycraft.com/racing.htm |
Originally Posted by rlj676
(Post 2634025)
I love that Lavey Evo, but they've only built TWO! So, I don't think it's quite the race boat yet. I believe they race the 2750 which is a stand up.
Michael |
Originally Posted by FASTERDAMITT
(Post 2634086)
They are racing it since last year. Here is the Evo I raced with in POPRA.
http://www.laveycraft.com/racing.htm |
Originally Posted by Michael1
(Post 2634401)
The 2750 is s sitdown, and does very well racing in the rough stuff.
Michael I am nearly positive though I have seen pics of stand up Lavey's in that size range 26-29, but I can't find any now so it might have been another West Coast boat? Is the Evo the same bottom as the 2750 then, since those are the 2 they race? I had assumed actually the full canopy race versions were 2750's with canopies rather than evo's, but obviously it makes more since for them to be the original evo deck with the canopy chopped off. |
Wc
Hard to disagree that the eastcoast consistently builds a better ocean boat, heck thats where it all started. There is plenty of knowledge on the westcoast however, to build a purpose built rough water boat. I guess it depends on how much $$$ you want to put into it and how much time. The Lavey we run is a rough water machine and has the results to prove it. Its a local westcoast boat and would be easy to take a look at.
I wouldn't trade my East Coast tunnel for anything!!! There is not a manufacturer that I know of that builds a true tunnel, WC they all have a training wheel. THE BIG QUESTION!!!! WHERE WAS EVERYBODY THIS WEEKEND WHEN ALL THE ROUGH WATER RACING WAS GOING ON IN LONG BEACH??? IT DRIVES ME CRAZY THAT THERE WHERE PROBABLY 30 ROUGH WATER BOATS SITTING IN THERE GARAGES WHILE WE WHERE OUT RACING!!!!:drink::drink: |
Originally Posted by WESTCOASTCAT
(Post 2634683)
THE BIG QUESTION!!!! WHERE WAS EVERYBODY THIS WEEKEND WHEN ALL THE ROUGH WATER RACING WAS GOING ON IN LONG BEACH??? IT DRIVES ME CRAZY THAT THERE WHERE PROBABLY 30 ROUGH WATER BOATS SITTING IN THERE GARAGES WHILE WE WHERE OUT RACING!!!!:drink::drink:
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Originally Posted by FASTERDAMITT
(Post 2634764)
I was there! Last year I won P5. Ya, just a Patrol boat this year. I have alot of hours on my drive and business is slow so I chose to keep the drive in the water this time. Real Estate sales is starting to recover so i should be back in contention soon.:ernaehrung004:
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Originally Posted by WESTCOASTCAT
(Post 2634683)
Hard to disagree that the eastcoast consistently builds a better ocean boat, heck thats where it all started. There is plenty of knowledge on the westcoast however, to build a purpose built rough water boat. I guess it depends on how much $$$ you want to put into it and how much time. The Lavey we run is a rough water machine and has the results to prove it. Its a local westcoast boat and would be easy to take a look at.
I wouldn't trade my East Coast tunnel for anything!!! There is not a manufacturer that I know of that builds a true tunnel, WC they all have a training wheel. THE BIG QUESTION!!!! WHERE WAS EVERYBODY THIS WEEKEND WHEN ALL THE ROUGH WATER RACING WAS GOING ON IN LONG BEACH??? IT DRIVES ME CRAZY THAT THERE WHERE PROBABLY 30 ROUGH WATER BOATS SITTING IN THERE GARAGES WHILE WE WHERE OUT RACING!!!!:drink::drink: :cool-smiley-027: |
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