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Old 09-09-2008 | 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by T2x
You don't know much about Unlimiteds...both cats and hydros run with their tunnels supported by ground effect airflow beneath the hulls and negative lift above from the airfoil shape on the deck. The technology you describe has been around for years in various forms on OffshoreCats, outboard tunnels and Unlimiteds, and , at times it has worked. However as previously posted most Offshore cat accidents are barrel rolls, not blowovers. This is even the case in most straightaway accidents, including the one a few weeks ago. The few blowovers that occur are at the really high speeds or from excessive trim angles.

T2x
Don't almost all unlimiteds have fully articulating canard wings up front, and didn't some of the teams experiment with gyro control (similar to pitch on a chopper) instead of just driver control? I know it would only be good for straightaway blowovers, but that was the most dangerous in the unlim's I believe. That's why I thought Steve David may help and he is an offshore guy also.
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Old 09-09-2008 | 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by phragle
getting back to common sense... it's been a bad summer when racing, poker runs and performance boating are looke at as a whole. this is off the top of my head, but the summer started with an offshore boat slamming into an anchored barge at speed in the dark, several ejections and a roll at the harrison twp race, a recent head on at night, a couple high speed shore hits, 2 different cats flipping killing 3, the leopa ejection.. and thats off the top of my head without looking up anything. we all like going fast and running hard, but collectively we need to step back for just a second,understand our capabilites and that of our boats and stay within those confines.
I certainly agree with you, but how are you going to convince all these drunk people? With the pleasure boat accidents, it's the same thing over and over. The driver was drunk, they were out joyriding, and mowed down an innocent person or slammed into something immovable killing everyone on board. It's so repetitive, it's monotonous.

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Old 09-09-2008 | 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by phragle
getting back to common sense... it's been a bad summer when racing, poker runs and performance boating are looke at as a whole. this is off the top of my head, but the summer started with an offshore boat slamming into an anchored barge at speed in the dark, several ejections and a roll at the harrison twp race, a recent head on at night, a couple high speed shore hits, 2 different cats flipping killing 3, the leopa ejection.. and thats off the top of my head without looking up anything.
Running fast at night is stupid. Drinking and driving is stupid. Putting yourself in a position to hurt, or kill, an innocent bystander or fan is also stupid. However, I've raced cars, boats, motorcycles and flown in stunt planes and crop dusters. It's fun and a rush. I've crashed way too many times and still ran hard in a cast in desert races on bikes and done the same speed skiing (wrapped the cast in a couple garbage bags). My opinion: If that is my choice, and I absolutely do not put an innocent person in danger, my perogative. There is a huge difference between driving/riding fast and driving/riding stupid. I don't know what happened at Cumberland, but he seemed to be a fast, not stupid, lover of life with a need for speed. Everything we do to make the sport as safe as possible is good. It will never be completely safe. Common sense to me means stop the stupid, not the guys like we just lost in NY and Cumberland. Try to figure out what happened and make it safer. Again, just my opinion.
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Old 09-09-2008 | 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael1
I certainly agree with you, but how are you going to convince all these drunk people? With the pleasure boat accidents, it's the same thing over and over. The driver was drunk, they were out joyriding, and mowed down an innocent person or slammed into something immovable killing everyone on board. It's so repetitive, it's monotonous.

Michael
With all of our help. Report them or drive for them. No exceptions.
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Old 09-09-2008 | 09:59 PM
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Rat...we need to have a barley pop sometime, I sawed a cast off my leg to do a desert race..and won and my post was singling out now particular accident, just a generalization
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Old 09-09-2008 | 10:03 PM
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Many barrel rolls in cats come after suddenly unloading the tunnel of air and sticking a sponson. Anything that vents the tunnel seems to me like it would be much harder to predict and control than the hull is in the first place!

Don't bandage the elbow when the knee is the problem.
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Old 09-10-2008 | 08:23 AM
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Ok I was not thinking venting the hull just a flap behind the flap it would still be enlosed it would be like 8"-12" tall and only open after the air would come in at a certain angle to push the flap open an example would be if I drilled 45 degree holes in a running position they would not suck in enough air to open the flaps but if the boat went up 10-15 degrees it would suck in enough air to open the flap now obviously this would need some type of wind tunnel testing to see exactly when the airflow would change etc. I do not know if it would work but it was just a thought. I was not thinking fancy gryo's or anything like that just using the air direction that would change when a boat got more air under it.
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Old 09-10-2008 | 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by OkieTunnel
Many barrel rolls in cats come after suddenly unloading the tunnel of air and sticking a sponson.

Don't bandage the elbow when the knee is the problem.
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Old 09-10-2008 | 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by db71
Ok I was not thinking venting the hull just a flap behind the flap it would still be enlosed it would be like 8"-12" tall and only open after the air would come in at a certain angle to push the flap open an example would be if I drilled 45 degree holes in a running position they would not suck in enough air to open the flaps but if the boat went up 10-15 degrees it would suck in enough air to open the flap now obviously this would need some type of wind tunnel testing to see exactly when the airflow would change etc. I do not know if it would work but it was just a thought. I was not thinking fancy gryo's or anything like that just using the air direction that would change when a boat got more air under it.
Once you've caught enough air to get the boat moving upward, you're probably done. Killing the lift is only a portion of it. You also have the momentum of the mass to consider, as well as the rising rate of aerodynamic drag- the increase in drag coefficient when the hull rotates upward in relation to its axis of travel. Basically, once you start it moving upward, it's going to take more than the removal of the original force to stop it. And you still have the issue of what happens if and when it does com slamming back down to the water.
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Old 09-10-2008 | 10:29 AM
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There is a reason racers have gone to canopies, 5 point harnesses , onboard O2, etc. As long as folks continue to run these excessive speeds in open cockpit boats you are going to have the occasional tragedy. To expand upon Chris's point of the odds being much more in favor of the pros, I believe I read a quote from Teague once where he states, in his opinion, the number of people that are truly skilled enough to run speeds above 100 MPH is very, very small. Some of these boats are approaching NASCAR speeds on a surface which is unpredictible with no safety equipment to protect them in case of an accident. Continuing on the NASCAR theme, can you imagine a race today, even on a short track, where they ran convertibles with no roll bars, seat belts, helmets, etc. Seriously, how much of a difference is there in the event of a wreck?
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