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Favorite Offshore 25ft and smaller?

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Old 08-30-2009, 08:50 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Wahoo ATV View Post
75mph for a F1 boat sounds about 5 mph short. BTW the yellow bat boat pictured with a stock 377 Scorpion and 30" Bravo 1 runs 84mph.

It is for sale.
It isnt my speed claim.

I pasted a quote from an old apba site that talks about how many engines in the factory 1 class - simply to debate the point you made about the pantera running 2 engines-

If you look at the video it could be a 28, but when it passes the other bat boat they look identical to me in size.

UD
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Old 08-30-2009, 08:53 PM
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Heres the link- I just went to sompeplace to find a copy of the class ruling and pasted more than that when I should have edited rather than copied out the commentary


http://www.p4-34.com/public_html/FactoryClasses.htm

UD
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Old 08-30-2009, 11:52 PM
  #233
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Gotcha UD I was wondering where that came from lol

Trent

But the invitation is still open if your ever in Fla
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:13 AM
  #234
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Gotcha UD I was wondering where that came from lol

Trent

But the invitation is still open if your ever in Fla

Next time Im in florida Ill take you up on that -
Rig sounds awesome I wanna ride.

Likewise if you ever get out to LA look me up- Ill take you for a spin.

Im taking this rig on a trip to San Diego tomorrow from Marina Del Rey it's about a 300 mile roundtrip throwing in a stop at Newport each way.

Ill do what I can to come up with the hotties again if get out....



UD
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Old 08-31-2009, 10:38 AM
  #235
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This thread brought me back to a discussion I had with a pleasure boat maker. Now that the industry's downsized, as well as the consumer's appetite for leverage, how would the boat industry proceed? Many have plans to keep their new low-scale cost models in place. Lower volume, lower overhead, and lower discounts. Many boat dealer have been preparing for build to order as their floorplanning costs are now sky high due to lack of competition, and a reduced appetite for risk.

The hi performance boat market has a few up-market players doing well, and companies like Fountain, Donzi and probably Cig revamping their operations. But there is a market void since many boat builders decided to go mass market with lighter boats, wakeboard boats, as well as flooding the market with bowriders and the like. I miss the old days of solid, wave-crushing boats that didn't need to be 32' to take waves.

I told him that I really think that this is the time for boat builders to carve out their own niche here. There are many that don't want a great-riding boat that tops out at 45 mph, but are looking for a well-built wave crusher that will do 65 mph or so, and still hold up after many years. They cost a bot more to build for sure. But the cost of entry for a new Fountain, Cigarette, whatever (not to mention the size of them), is a huge turnoff in this economy, and probably for a few years as well. And I suspect prices will only rise from here on out.

This market is most likely a lot larger than most people think it is. I was intrigued by the comments about the ride and handing qualities of the Active Thunder, but now they're 28'. I believe that many of these brands could produce a boat that would deliver volume, not to mention repeat business in the future. The model should be repeat business, and capture them early on. You can't be all things to all boaters, but you can try to capture a market that is profitable, and will probably be growing for a decade or so. Keep performance in mind, but this does not have to be a pure play performance boat, which would keep the volumes lower, and defeat the purpose.

Here's what I find attractive about some of the model features I've seen, and what I think would be attractive to most buyers in this segment.

25' to 28' max
24 degree Vee, no steps
Cabin headroom
Enclosed head
Single engine power choices, even from a quiet 350 mag on up
Concentrate on cockpit comfort
ie: seating options should not be limited to stand up bolsters
I don't need to go 70 mph plus



I'm not talking about a $125k Formula here at all. But a concept not too far off from, say, a lower cost Formula SS.

I loved the features and layout of the AT 28 Savage, and think it would be a good start if refined for the broader market. It got my eye, as it actually has a usable cabin, although the beam is a bit narrow.

There's been a large market out there in the used OS boat niche, and many concentrate on ride and price, not so much speed. Many people have families and cannot justify a high-speed boat that gives limited focus to amenities such as cockpit and cabin, as they are more for Poker runners and the like. Some have even sold out and gone to cruisers.

I just think these boats would add more to the bottom line, and offer less dependence on high-cost lower volume boats.
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:40 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by F1-00 Racing View Post
Gotcha UD I was wondering where that came from lol

Trent

But the invitation is still open if your ever in Fla


I'll let you know when Im out there and Ill take you up on it...

Not only do I know better, my hull from my pet manufacturer set the record in 2006 at 90 with a 525.



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Old 09-22-2009, 07:02 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by spilman View Post
Well said UDave. It is a shame the 25AT is out of production; with this economy I think Pat(Active Thunder) could sell a few 25's & 28's, but what do I know. I'm sure the profit in a 25-29' boat is not too exciting for the builder. Espescially a builder that puts so much into their product; some things cost almost as much in Labor to install as their big brothers, 33's & 37's.....So I do understand reluctance to build the "under 30" boats.
BTW, I agree, the Pantera is nice...& of course Laveycraft builds a beautiful boat; no doubt about it.
I think AT and others should bring back the under 30' wavecrushers for under $100k. What would a new 25AT with t/225s cost?
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:06 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Catmando View Post
I think AT and others should bring back the under 30' wavecrushers for under $100k. What would a new 25AT with t/225s cost?
AT is releasing a new 29 next year with a step that will run over 70 MPH with a 496HO and cost less than $100K. There is a thread in the AT section.
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:11 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
This thread brought me back to a discussion I had with a pleasure boat maker. Now that the industry's downsized, as well as the consumer's appetite for leverage, how would the boat industry proceed? Many have plans to keep their new low-scale cost models in place. Lower volume, lower overhead, and lower discounts. Many boat dealer have been preparing for build to order as their floorplanning costs are now sky high due to lack of competition, and a reduced appetite for risk.

The hi performance boat market has a few up-market players doing well, and companies like Fountain, Donzi and probably Cig revamping their operations. But there is a market void since many boat builders decided to go mass market with lighter boats, wakeboard boats, as well as flooding the market with bowriders and the like. I miss the old days of solid, wave-crushing boats that didn't need to be 32' to take waves.

I told him that I really think that this is the time for boat builders to carve out their own niche here. There are many that don't want a great-riding boat that tops out at 45 mph, but are looking for a well-built wave crusher that will do 65 mph or so, and still hold up after many years. They cost a bot more to build for sure. But the cost of entry for a new Fountain, Cigarette, whatever (not to mention the size of them), is a huge turnoff in this economy, and probably for a few years as well. And I suspect prices will only rise from here on out.

This market is most likely a lot larger than most people think it is. I was intrigued by the comments about the ride and handing qualities of the Active Thunder, but now they're 28'. I believe that many of these brands could produce a boat that would deliver volume, not to mention repeat business in the future. The model should be repeat business, and capture them early on. You can't be all things to all boaters, but you can try to capture a market that is profitable, and will probably be growing for a decade or so. Keep performance in mind, but this does not have to be a pure play performance boat, which would keep the volumes lower, and defeat the purpose.

Here's what I find attractive about some of the model features I've seen, and what I think would be attractive to most buyers in this segment.

25' to 28' max
24 degree Vee, no steps
Cabin headroom
Enclosed head
Single engine power choices, even from a quiet 350 mag on up
Concentrate on cockpit comfort
ie: seating options should not be limited to stand up bolsters
I don't need to go 70 mph plus



I'm not talking about a $125k Formula here at all. But a concept not too far off from, say, a lower cost Formula SS.

I loved the features and layout of the AT 28 Savage, and think it would be a good start if refined for the broader market. It got my eye, as it actually has a usable cabin, although the beam is a bit narrow.

There's been a large market out there in the used OS boat niche, and many concentrate on ride and price, not so much speed. Many people have families and cannot justify a high-speed boat that gives limited focus to amenities such as cockpit and cabin, as they are more for Poker runners and the like. Some have even sold out and gone to cruisers.

I just think these boats would add more to the bottom line, and offer less dependence on high-cost lower volume boats.
Agree with your post. I am on season 2 with my 28 AT and I love it. If/when I can get a bigger boat, the AT's will be at the top of my list. Not only for the looks, quality, rough water performance and spacious cockpit/cabin, but for the factory support. Even before I put my boat in the water for the first time, Pat the owner of AT PM'ed me asking if the factory could help. That goes a long way in my book.

Oh, BTW, the beam is either 8'2" or 8'4" so it is not narrow. May seem that way because of the non-skid walk around, but the cockpit is actually pretty big.

Are you coming over to the Lake George Poker Run? I'll be ther with my 28. Feel free to check it out.
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:59 PM
  #240
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There are actually a lot of good choices in this size range now!

Seems to me weather you are an East or West coat guy youve got some valid choices.

I think we can all expect the makers to dust off the smaller molds that may have been idle for a while and focus on more reasonably sized and priced boats.

I agree 24-28 is about the sweet spot. with twin obs' or a single big block these are ideal boats.

Big nough to serve ocean duty & the biggest lakes.
Big enough to weekend "camp" in.
Big enough for a family to enjoy together.

Small enough for a 1/2 ton "regular guy" pickup
Small enough for lake /river duty

Easy to store
Easy to launch with one or 2 people
"Relatively Cheap" to maintain, run , insure.
Easy to clean



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